On the Comparison chart of VPX vs MEP, under Audio, is High-End Audio Mastering. VPX has it; MEP does not.
Does anyone know what this means?
I can't see any difference in the Mastering effects between VPX12 & MEP2021 Plus/Premium. I looked at Master Audio Effects Rack and Mastering Suite. What am I missing?
Thanks,
John CB
Hi John.
When exporting audio in the wav. format, VPX supports up to 192KHz sampling rates whereas MEP only goes up to 48KHz. I think it supports the proper use of 192KHz sampling rates on import as well. At least I have used such audio files in VPX at 32 bit floating point. I think the exported files are only 24 bit though. That I haven't tried as I don't normally use video editors for exporting mixed sound files only.
Ray.
Hi Ray,
I don't see what you say and I don't see that this has anything to do with High-End Mastering.
For export, the sample rate is 48 kHz for both MEP and VPX - never 192 kHz; it's the Bitrate that goes to 192 kBit/s. The max for export to MP4 is 192 kBit/s, 384 for AVCHD in both MEP and VPX.
The maximum in both programs for Sample rate in the Project Settings if 48 kHz.
Any other ideas?
Thanks,
John CB
Hi Ray, John
It is not the bit depth either, both programs import 24 and 32 bit audio with no issues, and there is no option to set the bit depth in the exports - they are all 16 bit for both the Default and MC encoders.
John - did there not use to be an Intermediate export format with VPX ?
John EB
Hi Ray,
Thanks for that. MEP only goes to 48 kHz for audio export. However, this is for audio export only and does not affect video exports unless I am missing something.
On the other hand, this could be what Magix is referring to about High-End Mastering. It would be good to know for sure.
Hi John,
There may have been, but not that I would remember. The one thing that I have never looked at is the audio part for exporting. I always assumed that 48 kHz was the norm and that anything higher would not improve my recorded audio.
I am at the end of my 2-part audio tutorial and I thought that I would just check this one last thing as part of the differences between MEP and VPX. I will add into the export part about the difference that Ray mentioned.
John CB
Hi John
In VPX 10 there was an option to Export as Intermediate Codec which looks like it was the ProRes 422/444 however that is a video codec, I can find no mention of bit depth audio parameters for exporting as Prores.- looks like this option has been removed from VPX12.
AFAIK, 48kHz sample rate is the defacto standard for video. MEP and VPX use to have options for going lower as far as 11025 Hz when using the MC encoder.
John EB
Hi John,
Thanks. I don't recall that export option and would not have used it.
No other ideas as to what Magix means about the High-End Mastering?
John CB
Hi John.
Some video editors may be working with music tracks supplied by commercial studios that supply the tracks at those sampling rates and bit depths. All Magix is stating is it can faithfully handle such files or export them if going go another video workstation before the final render. Some production houses often have several editors working on files from a central server in real time on the same project depending on the job being done by that editor.
Failure to be able to sample such files accurately before the final mix-down and resampling can cause such files to clip audibly or lessen their solidity of position in the space within the sound stage due to the timing differences in the sample rates.
Ray.
Hi Ray,
I still don't see that as High-End Mastering related to a difference between MEP and VPX. I would not be able to demonstrate that in the tutorial. I could understand one program being able to handle importing and exporting of higher sampling rates for audio only, but that is not mastering a video file containing audio is it?
John CB
Hi John/Ray
After some more digging - AFAICS the High End Mastering is referring to the use of technology based on the Samplitude engine for synchronization of video/audio, which is almost infinitely variable instead of frame based as in MEP, and applying HQ effects, ie the more advanced cleaning and effects filters that are not available in MEP, additionally there is no mention of exporting at higher quality for use on other workstations.
John EB
Hi John.
It is not something you could demonstrate in a video easily as it would have to compare what you can hear when you are working on it and what the finished video sounds like. It is a problem several YouTubers that own recording studios have when trying to demonstrate differences in mixes at various sample rates because as you point out video is normally not exported with audio above 48KHz. Most of these concerns would mainly effect TV and cinema video production when mixing sound from more than one source. It also relies heavily on the sound reproduction equipment and listening room. I think it is there for those that need it but for the majority of users this would not be something to be concerned with.
Ray.
Hi John,
It could be the Samplitude engine but you hit on a couple of important points that I forgot:
Thanks for that!
...HQ effects, ie the more advanced cleaning and effects filters that are not available in MEP...
What are these HQ effects that are in VPX but not in MEP?
Hi Ray,
I'm reading up on mastering. The VPX manual defines the mastering process the final polishing given to a mixed music piece. The Mastering Suite is part of the mastering process, but VPX and MEP look the same to me.
So, I'm still lost.
Back to yard work before tomorrow's 10-30cm of snow.
John CB
Hi John
Did not take long to look - the differences other than those I mentioned and you have suggested are:
Looks like the major difference is 'under the hood'
HTH
John EB
Hi John.
I can't find any difference in the effects with MEP and VPX. There could be differences in some effects within Samplitude, I don't know.
Typical effect that would benefit is any reverb unit that uses impulse recordings to simulate a real recorded space.
Good luck with reading up on audio mastering.It will be a very long read.
I would highly recommend The Mixing Engineer's Handbook 4th Edition Kindle Edition as a good starting point. Even if you only read the first few pages available on the Amazon website.
There is also a wealth of information to be had at the BBC site on audio engineering here.
Ray.
Hi John.
I would think so.
I'm assuming you are familiar with sampling in general. Practically, 'slices' of the audio waveform. The more slices the more accurate the reproduction of the waveform. The problem becomes if you try to read that file using a 48KHz sampling rate. The result can not only sound dull but distorted in ways not easily fixed. Where the slices can be at a different point of the amplitude of the waveform from the file it is reading altering the curve of the waveform. Spacial data is lost, high frequencies get harsher and bass can lose it's punch. A lot of plug-ins won't work with it correctly. Some people still won't hear a difference at home but in a good audio environment with good reproduction, you should. I would think VPX is capable of resampling such files properly. 'Under the hood' as you put it so those types of problems don't occur.
Ray.
Hi Ray
I know what mean about sampling/slicing and the effect on higher harmonics/frequencies - the better the processor the better the retention of some of the harmonics/frequencies..
A couple of years ago I tried a pair of Bose headphones in a HiFi shop in Austria the audio clarity was by analogy - you could hear the pin drop and detect the ringing of the pin - on a top end system, was to say the least astounding. Unfortunately at approx €1500 for the headphones I could not justify that level of expenditure 🙁.
John EB
Hi John.
I think for most people the expenditure is too much. I probably only represent less than .001 percent of the population when it comes to sound equipment.
The recording to my mind is still the most important part. Even old ones when recorded well just give me a buzz.
The instrumentation on 'I Shall Sing' by Art Garfunkel (1973) is just phenomenal and literally 'in the room' on my system but other artists like Janis Ian's later home made recordings such as her Breaking Silence album are equally astounding using a DAT recorder. The sad thing is it is getting more difficult to find high quality recordings with the best audio now coming from Blu ray discs. Listen to the remastered 'Come and Get Your Love' by Redbone in the title sequence to Guardians of the Galaxy and compare it to the original mix to see what I mean.
Ray.
You're both showing your age. As a result, and because of John, you made me think of Patrick McGoohan, The Prisoner, also Danger Man. This was retitled Secret Agent for North America and the theme song was Secret Agent Man sung by Johnny Rivers. It's the guitar riff that sticks. I listen to this and I hear the similarity with the main theme for James Bond films. Sorry about the earworm..
Ray, thanks for the suggestion for the Mixing Engineer's Handbook, but I'll pass. Note the description: Mixing music—the process of combining and shaping the component parts of a song into a polished, completed recording. We are mixing for film, so mixing for song is overkill.
Most of us are creating movies from our photos and videos. We can't mix the audio of a video recording of a musical performance, unless someone recorded all of the various instruments and vocals with umpteen microphones. In that case, mixing would be done in a DAW, not a video editor. Then the performance would still have to sit in a movie having different sources and types of sound.
At the most, in MEP/VPX, we're mixing audio recordings, the audio of video recordings, narration, imported songs (already mixed and mastered), and sound effects.
I'm working on my definition of Mastering for VPX/MEP. After having reviewed various definitions, the following forms part of my thinking.
At the Mastering end in VPX/MEP, this is the last chance to catch mistakes and to change anything about the sound and loudness of the entire movie.
Mastering is also defined as the process of preparing musical recordings for distribution and will vary based on the type of visual media being created and the means of distribution. For a home video, this would usually mean getting a loudness that is consistent from one movie to the next, without having to reach for the volume control. The audio components should already have been cleaned, adjusted and mixed.
From the manual: "The effects in the Mastering Suite are used as part of the mastering process, in which the mixed music piece is given a final polishing." Instead of "mixed music piece" I would say mixed audio, unless one is making a music video.
Looking at the Mixer of VPX/MEP, there is a Master strip, and a Mastering button. The tools are:
There are also Master Effects on the Master Effects Rack (shortcut B) with:
Using any of these affects the entire audio, so any changes at this point should be subtle. Making a song sound better may adversely affect other audio, like narration.
Loudness is part of Mastering and the objective is to get an overall output that is not too loud or soft and is consistent, with True Peaks not going above -1 db. Using a metering device, like YouLean Loudness Meter will help find the true perceived loudness to use for consistency and for uploading to sites like YouTube that have loudness constraints. YouLean Loudness Meter also helps at the mixing stage to adjust songs and audio, like narrations, that vary in loudness to get them to be about the same level throughout, and it identifies and locates peaks that exceed a predefined level. Doing this by ear only is for the trained audio engineer.
Etc.
The snowstorm has started.
Hi John
Did you include the EBU R128 normalisation option for VPX?
. . . . The snowstorm has started. . . . .
Send a load over please - all we have had the last 36 hours is rain!
John EB
Hi John,
Yes, it's in Part 1.
The best that I can do is a photo or video - later. We're just about to be walked by Bernadette. The snowshoes are at the front door.
John CB
John,
Something else I didn't see on the chart: VPX allows for VST effects per channel. Does MEP? (So, as I can use 3rd party VSTs at the track channel level in the mixer as well as on the Master channel, I don't use the built-in Magix audio features.)
In the chart, it mentions that VPX uses MIDI. Hmm... Do you know what this entails? I'm not aware that I can, for example, use a MIDI fader board to control the mixer or transport. Am I just missing that?
Hi.
Yes to the first part but no idea on the second. I have failed to find a MIDI patch system within either MEP or VPX to allow such control via MIDI, (not even play and stop) but I know a shuttle controller can be used for scrolling. I have no idea if one purchases the higher end shuttle whether the additional buttons can be assigned to do anything else.
There used to be a Magix MIDI controller for MEP but I can no longer find a reference to it.
[Edit] In a lot of instances where there are a lot of audio tracks, the delay between a mixer action and hearing the result can be several seconds so I'm not sure if even if it were available that it would be useful.
John EB may be able to give an answer to that one.
Ray.
Gentlemen,
Craig, yes, MEP has the same features for VST's - track and FX buss, and master. Neither allows VST's at object level, although there are 2 sends from objects to the FX busses in the Mixer.
MIDI is actually only MTC which allows synchronizing with external MIDI controllers, or, as will be shown in my tutorial, synchronizing VPX and Samplitude in Master/Slave or Slave/Master using LoopBe1. It can be done with Music Maker as well.
I use the Contour ShuttlePro V2. It's not a MIDI controller. It uses shortcuts for the buttons, has an inner ring for single frame movement of the playback marker, outer ring for scrolling along the timeline - from slow to fast. I use 3 switchable banks that I programmed - general for moving around, Import, and Editing & Effects. I'm thinking of adding one for audio because I'm often turning on the object volume curve and drawing. I use the ShuttlePro with MEP, Samplitude, Music Maker and Xara. It works with most programs that use shortcuts and comes with templates for many, many programs. You can also create macros for the buttons instead of shortcuts.
John CB