@FF22

I take it that you did not watch my tutorials on basic editing. What you did is exactly what this tutorial addresses so that it doesn't happen:

John CB

I might have watched it but might you give me more specifics. I did not import videos using MEP's import tools. I merely dragged the video in directly from a folder. Is that totally wrong? Can't I just drag and drop from my video camera folder? Actually, in most cases, I dragged an long list of OBJECTS in from a folder. That way objects whether they were jpg's or videos remained in date sequence. My Panasonic was used for both as was my Pixel phone). Individually it would have been more complex to find the slot to place the video between its time-associated jpg's.

Or do I have it entirely wrong (as I got back and re-review your tutorial)

I do appreciate the help.

@FF22

You did not just drag it in, you trimmed it afterwards (obvious from your screen shot) without automatically closing up the gap. That is what is explained in the tutorial - how to trim the head, the tail and the middle and close up the gaps.

John CB

@FF22

You did not just drag it in, you trimmed it afterwards (obvious from your screen shot) without automatically closing up the gap. That is what is explained in the tutorial - how to trim the head, the tail and the middle and close up the gaps.

John CB

I created four folders for my China slide show. My Panasonic folder (both jpg and videos), my Pixel phone (again, jpg's and videos) and my Osmo Action (just videos). Initially, I just dragged an entire folder of objects (both jpg and video) from my Panasonic folder into MEP. That way the jpgs and videos remained in date sequence. Then I did open gaps to drag the Pixel jpgs and videos into their proper date sequence (interspersed with the Panasonics). Then I did the same for the Action videos. In each case I closed the gaps, setting fades and transition timing. Rarely did I even change the imported videos - just interweaving them af full length (20 seconds here, 45 seconds there) into the project.

The gap I show in the first attachment is something that spontaneously occurred. That was what I was trying to show. There had been a full video snippet. Then there was only a portion which created the gap. I did not do any editing. The second attachment shows the full length of the video that HAD BEEN there yesterday. I was re-importing it and was showing the clipped video above and the same video ready to replace it (delete from track 1 and move up from track 2 to track 1). The second attachment was meant to show that the "clipped-video" had been the entire length.

I noticed this, this morning. A number of videos were similarly shortened or clipped leaving the gap where the missing portion had been when edited yesterday.

I hope I'm explaining. As an example a 30 second video was there yesterday embedded in the project. I looked at it, played it through and faded into the next object. Today, there was the gap and the next object was still there.

@FF22

Hi

Do you get any messages about gaps when exporting gaps?

Are you mixing different frame rate mode video, ie variable frame rate (Pixel video?) with constant frame rate video (Panasonic & Osmo?) and also at different frame rates?

If so this may be the cause of the gap issue.

John EB

@FF22

Hi

Do you get any messages about gaps when exporting gaps?

Are you mixing different frame rate mode video, ie variable frame rate (Pixel video?) with constant frame rate video (Panasonic & Osmo?) and also at different frame rates?

If so this may be the cause of the gap issue.

John EB

THANKS.

Let me start by asking if dragging videos (or even jpg's) in from a folder rather than using MEP's Import method an issue or a reasonable way to import objects?

----------

When importing the OSMO, I do get an "adjust" prompt because I think the size (pixel dimensions) does not match the main video. I also say NOT TO ADJUST. I only exported last night and I did get that message but I believe this morning I found my main music track did not start for about 12 seconds!

I will post my Media Info compilation for the three cameras below. From what I can tell about the gaps, they were generally from the PIXEL phone (I took it to dinners and used it to shoot jpg's and video).

Where those gaps existed (the clip's length was cut off as shown above), I RE-IMPORTED those clips again. But I just looked and the gaps did not reappear with the re-importation of the same clips. (disaster averted this time - sheer luck???) If it is a VARIABLE frame rate issue, what can I do to address it? I'd like to avoid the same problem when I compile my Dolomite Cross Country Ski trip with the same combination of three cameras.

The things I've learned in this go-around with Magix are impressive. The things ALL OF YOU HELPERS know is VERY IMPRESSIVE.

=============== Media Info To Follow ==========================

OSMO ACTION Video

General
Complete name                            : J:\China Photos\Action\Antler Crafts DJI_0296.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : JVT
Codec ID                                 : avc1
File size                                : 57.6 MiB
Duration                                 : 4s 638ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 104 Mbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-16 03:16:20
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-16 03:16:20
Comment                                  : DE=None, Type=Normal, HQ=Normal, RS=On, Mode=P

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4s 638ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 103 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 100.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.415
Stream size                              : 57.0 MiB (99%)
Title                                    : DJI.AVC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-16 03:16:20
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-16 03:16:20
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 4s 587ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 106 KiB (0%)
Title                                    : DJI.AAC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-16 03:16:20
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-16 03:16:20

======================================================

PIXEL Video

General
Complete name                            : J:\China Photos\Pixel\VID_20191021_180049.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42
File size                                : 123 MiB
Duration                                 : 46s 58ms
Overall bit rate                         : 22.3 Mbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-21 10:00:49
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-21 10:00:49
©xyz                                     : +31.2215+121.4392/
com.android.version                      : 10

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=60
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 46s 48ms
Bit rate                                 : 22.1 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Rotation                                 : 90°
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 30.000 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 29.920 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 30.100 fps
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.356
Stream size                              : 122 MiB (99%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-21 10:00:49
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-21 10:00:49
Color primaries                          : BT.601 PAL
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601
mdhd_Duration                            : 46048
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.2020

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 46s 58ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.05 MiB (1%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-21 10:00:49
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-21 10:00:49
mdhd_Duration                            : 46058

=============================================

PANASONIC Video

General
Complete name                            : J:\China Photos\Camera\P1040265.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42
File size                                : 144 MiB
Duration                                 : 44s 545ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 27.1 Mbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-19 15:50:15
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-19 15:50:15
PANA                                     : DMC-ZS60

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 44s 545ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 27.0 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 36.9 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.217
Stream size                              : 143 MiB (99%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-19 15:50:15
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-19 15:50:15
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 44s 545ms
Source duration                          : 44s 608ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 17ms
Stream size                              : 681 KiB (0%)
Source stream size                       : 682 KiB (0%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-10-19 15:50:15
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-10-19 15:50:15

@FF22

Hi

Thanks for the MediaInfo analyses - it confirmed what I suspected with the Pixel video frame rate mode being variable.

MEP will handle some variable frame rate video easily others not.

I would suggest you run the Pixel videos through a video converter to get them to Constant frame rate mode.

Many users here recommend Handbrake, personally I use MovAvi Video Converter (paid for).

HTH

John EB

@FF22

Hi

Thanks for the MediaInfo analyses - it confirmed what I suspected with the Pixel video frame rate mode being variable.

MEP will handle some variable frame rate video easily others not.

I would suggest you run the Pixel videos through a video converter to get them to Constant frame rate mode.

Many users here recommend Handbrake, personally I use MovAvi Video Converter (paid for).

HTH

John EB

Maybe this is "why is the sky blue" question (g): Why are some of these variable framerate clips fine and some not? Then the BIGGER why: It appears that they random get shortened. Looking over the project again last evening, some that were fine (I know I played through the section with jpg's, the clip and more jpg's and there was no gap) suddenly had gaps. The clips were shortened when they were fine the day before. Oh, well, I now just to reimport the rectified clips.

I did look for FIXING the Pixel framerate on the web and found, it canNOT be done. And that it actually can vary on any one video - changing the frame rate in response to light or scene. And lots of complaints about this "feature!!!!"

@FF22

If you think of variable frame rate as similar to variable bit rate, then the same thing will apply. Variable bit rates work where there are large areas of similar colours next to each other with little detail, such as sky. Take that one step further where there is little movement, then the frames can be slowed slightly with less chance of there being any noticeable difference between frames. As long as the playback device has the ability to read the frame speeds back correctly then no-one's the wiser.

This is new technology that in time may be accounted for in editing programs and maybe even streaming video services, but it is early days and one of the problems of being an early adopter of consumerable goods.

Every time I have updated a digital stills or cine camera, I have had to upgrade my PC to cope with the larger file sizes for editing speeds as well as having to buy a new version of an editing program to cope with the newer version of the file format that my old editor didn't support. The idea of having a variable frame rate could either be due to a limitation of data transfer speed to the micro SD card or internal memory of the phone, or to prevent processor overheating or to save memory space. These things are hard to tell as manufactures are not going to say if they have either technical problems, or admit that if they didn't do certain things, that their file sizes would be larger than their competitors for the same quality output.

So in relation you your shrinking clips by varying amounts, it would be interesting to see if the clips with more detail or action are longer per length than those that have less or shrink less.

Ray.

@FF22

Hi

Thanks for the MediaInfo analyses - it confirmed what I suspected with the Pixel video frame rate mode being variable.

MEP will handle some variable frame rate video easily others not.

I would suggest you run the Pixel videos through a video converter to get them to Constant frame rate mode.

Many users here recommend Handbrake, personally I use MovAvi Video Converter (paid for).

HTH

John EB

Okay, framerate v. Bitrate? Should they both be constant? And in Movavi, what should my settings be to successfully import and use them in MEP. I see the Osmo Action has variable bitrate.

@FF22

Variable bit rate is OK as most frames within a clip will vary in the amount of detail being captured. (It's a bit more complex than that but in simple terms) Nearly all encoders will recompress anything you edit on export, but does not necessarily mean what you may think that means. Where there is less detail within a frame it will get recorded in less detail and more compression as nearby blocks of colour are grouped more together and given similar instruction on how to play back, whereas areas with more detail will still get some compression but not as much. So the bit rate needed can be allowed to vary as one frame may need fewer bits than the next frame to give a good representation. That part of encoding has been around for a while and dealt with.

The same could be said for saving file sizes by altering frame rate if there is less motion within the frame, but this is a new way of file handling and so far has not really been caught up with in editing packages that I'm aware of. I don't know if Apple and Google (for instance) even use the same types of variable frame compression. This is all rather new. Maybe Magix, and other editing software houses are working on it for use in their next upgrade versions. Maybe it just won't catch on. Too early yet to know.

Both my cameras do variable bit rate recording.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi

. . . . then the frames can be slowed slightly with less chance of there being any noticeable difference between frames . . . .

Here I disagree, if there is very little change the frame rate can drop to a very low value - I have seen nominal 30fps drop to as low as 6 fps.

@FF22

. . . . framerate v. Bitrate? Should they both be constant . . .

Framerate yes.

Bitrate a definite no - using variable bitrate (VBR) allows the compressor to use a higher bitrate for frames where there a lot of change and lower bitrate for no or little change - this maintains a higher level of detail where it matters.

If you use Constant bitrate (CBR) there is a high risk of introducing issues in the image, eg blockiness, pixellation and/or lower image quality. Compensating for this setting a high CBR you end up with large file sizes.

HTH

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Here I disagree, if there is very little change the frame rate can drop to a very low value - I have seen nominal 30fps drop to as low as 6 fps.

And why would that be a problem to the phone recording or playing back the file?

Most high-end phones now combine their individual camera lens outputs to provide a single frame to increase perceived sharpness. Each lens on some phones has its own optical stabilization mechanism via shifting the sensor by using piezo actuators and can be combined to produce single frames with increased sharpness.

All it would need would be the instruction set within the codec to hold the image for a set duration during playback to replicate the normal frame rate. This is probably a proprietary codec to each manufacturer depending on the phones number of sensors and amount of pixels in use in each. As such the manufacturer is under no obligation to share its technology and why I personally think editors like MEP have problems trying to deal with them.

This is not a new phenomenon. Nikon started this with its stills cameras when they did not want their competitors to know exactly how their DNG files were processed in camera and came up with the NEF format. Originally, and for a long time other software editing programs had to guess at what was going on and reverse engineer a format that could show the instruction set. They never got it quite right and for a long time the only way you could accurately edit a NEF file was to use Nikon's own supplied editor which was Capture-NX. Eventually Nikon shared its information with Adobe but no-one else so far.

I feel this may go the same way.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . why would that be a problem to the phone recording or playing back the file? . . . .

None for playing back in the phone or using a player that can cope with VFR video.

The issues arise when video editing and the way audio is synced, or is not synced in the video.

For example, with a 25 fps project and you remove a section of VFR video, where the framerate is not 25fps, where does the audio get synced to?

It depends on how far the video has been stretched or squeezed to fit the project framerate and whether the audio is synced to a relative timecode, an interleave or is just free running.

By analogy, it is a bit like trying to cut out a section or end off a spring, for example 1/3, the true length of the cutoff piece depends on how far it is stretched/squeezed when you make the cuts.

HTH

John EB