@johnebaker

Ditto for NTSC. There is no 1080p in the selection, only 1080i is available.

John CB

Thanks John and John,

I'll make that 1080p25 export setting and save it as a preset.

Is there a way to make a Timeline Preset, too? As I mentioned, when I change the 1080i25 timeline to 1080p25, it changes back again to 1080i25 next time the project is opened. I’m using VPX 6.

Also, do you know what format editors generally export a movie at if further editing may be intended?

Seamus

@discburn

Hi Seamus

. . . . Is there a way to make a Timeline Preset, too? . . . .

I have never found a way to do this, in many respects it is irrelevant whether the project setting is i or p, if using interlaced video the program automatically de-interlaces it.

AFAICS only the Export settings matter, even if you use proxy files, the program always uses the originals for to create the export video with the settings specified.

HTH

John EB

So it really doesn't matter if I leave the 1080i25 timeline as it is. The 1080p25 footage will still play as progressive. I can export it as progressive or interlaced if I want. And make a progressive or interlaced DVD too?

Re. Blu-ray, I'd leave that at 1080i25 though (for the MPEG 2 version anyway). I wonder is there a H.264 version of Blu-ray that burns a 1080p25 disc?

Seamus

Just checked and the H.264 version of Blu-ray is also 1080i25. Okay I'll go for that.

There's a 'Quality or bit rate' slider in the settings dialogue. When opened it defaults to this...

To achieve the best quality, I slide it all the way over to the right to get...

That's 40,000 Kbps!! Can Blu-ray players play that? Is it really better quality than 26,000 Kbps?

The terms 'Long playback time' and 'Slow playback time' are hard to understand. I guess 'Long' means you get more on the disc. But 'Slow'?

Seamus

@discburn

Hi Seamus

. . . . That's 40,000 Kbps!! Can Blu-ray players play that? . . . .

Some may be able to, however a while ago Magix responded to my recommendation to wind up the bitrate advising not to do this to maintain maximum player compatibility.

The presets bitrates are optimised for quality vs play length and player compatibility. At the maximum setting you are reducing the available play time significantly.

AFAIK Blu-ray discs using the AVCHD are interleaved only and while the mepg 2 allows for progressive and interleaved I have not come across a progressive commercial disc.

. . . . 'Long playback time' and 'Slow playback time' are hard to understand. I guess 'Long' means you get more on the disc. But 'Slow'? . . . .

At the presets optimum bitrates a BD disc (single layer) holds approx 2 hrs of video - Long play back time means > 2hrs run time at the expense of a low bitrate, Slow (Short?) is the opposite a shorter runtime due to higher bitrate.

HTH

John EB

Hi John,

Thanks for that. Yes, I do remember encoding a Blu-ray at a high bitrate and one of my two BD players couldn't handle it well. So, I'll stick to the recommended setting, thanks.

You may have answered my next question (sorry! I have a lot of them today!)...
AFAIK Blu-ray discs using the AVCHD are interleaved only and while the mepg 2 allows for progressive and interleaved I have not come across a progressive commercial disc.

I was going to ask if, for a 1080p25 timeline about to be burned to Blu-ray, I could just change the Blu-ray field order to Progressive so that the Blu-ray player will play back 1080p. Same as making a progressive DVD. Is there any point to that? Would it even work? And would it work for H.264 Blu-rays too?

Seamus

@discburn

Hi Seamus

. . . . change the Blu-ray field order to Progressive so that the Blu-ray player will play back 1080p . . . . Is there any point to that? . . . .

Good question - in theory progressive would be marginally sharper, modern flat screen TV's are progressive devices by default, when presented with interlaced video it is de-interlaced within the TV.

However the degree of visual quality will depend greatly on the size of the TV screen/viewing distance. If you were to play Full HD on a 60inch + TV and viewed too close it is going to be pixelly (if there is such a word) - these are parameters you cannot control.

If the final video is to be used for broadcast then the broadcasters usually have strict requirements for the video.

. . . .would it work for H.264 Blu-rays too . . .

No - h.264 is interlaced only for both BD and AVCHD, if the source is progressive use the Top field first setting.

BD MPEG-2 can be set to progressive, and should be if the source is progressive.

HTH

John EB

Hi John,

h.264 is interlaced only for both BD and AVCHD, if the source is progressive use the Top field first setting.
BD MPEG-2 can be set to progressive, and should be if the source is progressive.

That's a point well worth remembering!

Thanks,

Seamus

Hi Seamus

My take on this:-

However, I always like to make an archive in a format as close to the original as possible. Filmed 720p25 footage has an MPEG 2 720p25 archiving format. But 1080p25 doesn't - amazingly! Even within Blu-ray, there's no 1080p25 MPEG 2, only 1080i25 (or 50i as some term it).

When saving an archive render of your edit you need to consider what you intend to do with it if you come back to it. If you only want to burn a Bluray from it then create a Bluray and store the created folders to your hard drive. This will give you an MPEG2 file made within the limitations of the Bluray spec. ie 720p50, 1080p24, 1080i25(fps) and a maximum bitrate of 40Mbps. I have never tried changing 24p template to 25p so can not say if it would play, and if I was going to create a 24p disc I would make sure I recorded in 24p in the camera to avoid judder caused by lost frames.

BTW I believe 50i is the correct term for 25fps interlaced - 50i = 50interlaced fields per second at 2fields per frame = 25fps. 25p = 25fps (25 complete frames per second)

SO... I feel it's okay to just change VPX's MPEG 2 1080i25 export option to progressive and make the archive. Is that a good decision? Am I going to lose anything in a de-interlacing/interlacing scenario.

If the original is progressive then keep it that way during any subsequent renders. As long as the export setting is still progressive then you will not lose just by changing a template to P, however you may want to increase the bitrate also as interlaced presets are sometimes set lower than progressive, but see below paragraphs.

If you are not going to go to Bluray specifically then just export via the MPEG2 export from the file menu and set "the sky as the limit" to give you maximum quality.

Just as an additional point, the bit rate for exporting MPEG 2 1080i25 is 28Mbps. This seems a bit low, considering the MPEG 4 for the same 1080p25 is 20 - 30 Mbps. Should I increase that to 35 - 40Mbps for MPEG 2?

I believe 28mbps will cause losses with your footage that is up around 38Mbps. Mpeg2 is much less compressed than Mpeg4, and Bluray MPEG2 Audio is usually PCM uncompressed which takes bandwith out of whatever Mbps you set. The Bluray spec is 40Mbps maximum bitrate and you will see this set in some Bluray templates although the average should be set lower say 35Mbps.

Actually what I would do to keep your rendered file as close to the spec of your original footage is this:-

1. Download the Main Concept MPEG2 codec which is free if you have an earlier version of MEP/VPX ie VPX6.
2. Set VPX to use this codec instead of the Default in Program settings and restart VPX.
3. When you choose an export template and go to Advanced encoder settings the window that opens will be a light grey interface with Tabs instead of the dark grey Intel settings window.
4. At the bottom of the window will be a button that says "From File". Click this and then navigate in the explorer window to an original clip from your camera. Click save and the encoder settings will now mirror the camera original attributes for all settings including GOP length, etc. - easy!

Final point... I'd like to be able, if needed, to re-edit this MPEG 2 'Master'/'Archive' in the future. Is the 1080p25 MPEG 2 a good format for that, or will the MPEG 4 1080p25 'Master' I mentioned above be sufficient?

If you keep it as close to the original as I have described above it will be best. I would not transcode if I did not know what future format I was going to need it in. Some might say AVI Uncompressed gives the ultimate flexibility but it is unpractical in the size of the file it creates. MPEG2HD is not too large, is not highly/complexly compressed like H264 and H265 and as such is a nice edit friendly codec. Another option would be to use Magix's .MXV intermediate codec for good timeline performance, but this also creates large lowly compressed files and is not editable in other programs beside Magix.

Final, final (MPEG 4 related) point... Does 'Use hardware acceleration' during export degrade the quality of a 'Master'?

In my experience it does degrade although subtly, as it does not support some optimisations within the MPEG4 codec and can lead to blurring of some detail in low contrast darker areas. MPEG4 H.264 compression is a bit sneaky as it does not waste bits on areas that it thinks you will not notice - a bit like MP3 or AC3 throwing away some of the upper harmonics to save bandwith for other elements in the frame / stream.

HTH

Peter

Thanks Peter, for your detailed input. I’ll definitely use the ‘From File’ in my Main Concept export. Never knew what that meant before!

”I have never tried changing 24p template to 25p”

Actually, that’s the timeline template. With the footage being 25p, using the progressive 24p timeline changed to 25p works fine. I only do that because there is no 1080p25 timeline, only 1080i25 (50i). I don’t know if there’s any value in doing that, though

Finally, if my footage is 25p, you’d concur with changing the field order to progressive when burning the Blu-ray Disc?

Seamus

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter

. . . . Download the Main Concept MPEG2 codec which is free if you have an earlier version of MEP/VPX ie VPX6. . . . .

I have the encoder from an earlier version of MEP and VPX 4, however AFAICS there is no option to use it in VPX, I only get the standard Intel export dialog.

Any ideas?

John EB

Hi John

IIRC the procedure is to open the "Record" window by clicking the red button under the Preview monitor then choose the Record HDV option at which point a prompt will come up to download / activate the codec for free.

See how you go.

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter

That worked - thank you.

John EB

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter

More problems using the From file option - tested with 2 projects, one containing only mp4 files and the other AVCHD (.mts), exporting as HD Archive 1920*1080i PAL:

1. None of the supported video files listed the drop down option are displayed, unless I select the All files option from the dropdown.
    
2. Selecting one of the mp4 files does not change any settings including the AR (on Auto) which is wrong at 4:3
    
3. Selecting an AVCHD does change the settings, however throws up an error message -  Errors: V047:Invalid video vbv buffer size (1098) for MPEG-1, range is 0 .. 1023..

Is it me or are there more settings to change manually before or after setting From file?

Thanks

John EB

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter,

Like John EB, my source file does not show. It's from a Sony PXW-Z150, its file extension being .XML. It is an MPEG 2 video file, but Sony's version of it. Anyway, 'From File' simply failed to open it - VPX froze for a while, then just returned to the Advanced encoder settings window.

Not to worry, I can just up the bit-rate to 38Mbps, as I'm not burning a disc.

Actually, if I just burn a BD at the default bit rate, or a little higher, and change the field order to progressive, I'll have a BD disc and the MPEG 2 backup in the Stream folder, too.

Seamus

Hi Seamus

. . . . from a Sony PXW-Z150, its file extension being .XML . . . .

AFAIK that is not the video file from the camera, IIRC it is a file the camera uses to store metadata on the video file - and among other things is used by the Sony software to build a single file from the parts where a video exceeds the 4GB limit of the memory card format.

You should be looking for the video files which are MP4 or AVCHD (.mts) depending on what format/resolution you recorded with.

HTH

John EB

Hi John,

AFAIK that is not the video file from the camera

Actually, it seems to be. It's 20.7GB and here's the Media Info on it.

It's the only one I copied from the SD card and VPX opens it with no problem.

Seamus

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter,

You mentioned...
I believe 28mbps will cause losses with your footage that is up around 38Mbps. Mpeg2 is much less compressed than Mpeg4, and Bluray MPEG2 Audio is usually PCM uncompressed which takes bandwith out of whatever Mbps you set. The Bluray spec is 40Mbps maximum bitrate and you will see this set in some Bluray templates although the average should be set lower say 35Mbps.

If the default Blu-ray bitrate is 28Mbps, but it is a variable bitrate with a max. of 40Mbps, is there any reason to set it higher than 28mbps (ie up to 35Mbps)? Doesn't the fact that it's variable mean the export/rendering will use bits higher than 28Mbps, all the way up to 40Mbps if it needs to?

Seamus

@discburn

Hi Seamus

Aha - found the 'confusion' - you posted:

. . . . Sony PXW-Z150, its file extension being .XML . . . .

The MediaInfo data shows the file extension is MXF - they are 2 different file formats entirely, hence my comment.

HTH

John EB

Hi

Yes, MXF is a professional container format containing the XML data file and different video and audio streams. VPX can import and play but not export.

@johnebaker

1. None of the supported video files listed the drop down option are displayed, unless I select the All files option from the dropdown.

That is because that function is accessed from the MPEG2 encoder window and it is only intended for MPEG2 files.

@discburn

For the reasons above the From file option will not work with the MXF without I imagine, demuxing the file into an MPEG2 stream first.

If the default Blu-ray bitrate is 28Mbps, but it is a variable bitrate with a max. of 40Mbps, is there any reason to set it higher than 28mbps (ie up to 35Mbps)? Doesn't the fact that it's variable mean the export/rendering will use bits higher than 28Mbps, all the way up to 40Mbps if it needs to?

Yes there is reason to set it higher because that average / target BR of 28Mbps is there to keep the final file at a certain approximate size. As a result it would have a reduced amount of total bits to allocate to the more complex scenes if there were a lot of them.

You could test this with your export by increasing the average BR to 35Mbps and seeing if it increased the file size significantly. Of course this would only give an indication for the particular footage on the timeline and would increase the size more on some other footage if it had more detail or more movement in many of the frames.

Peter