@CubeAce

Hi Ray

Check the RAM you have installed is 2666 MHz - was the 2666 MHz the maximum overclocked RAM frequency?

John EB

@CubeAce thanks for the link. I was a Ryzen early adopter. 1700X and Gigabtye mobo. I learned the hard way that the DDR43200 Corsair Vengeance RAM I bought would not clock up to 3200. The motherboard would cycle through on boot up, the "overclock" of the RAM was done in the XMP timings, but when it would fully boot, it was 2133. Certainly NOT what I paid for or wanted.

No, the RAM wasn't on Gigabyte's "list", but pre-Ryzen, I used whatever RAM I wanted with AMD CPU's going back to the original Athlon/Thunderbird days. Now... I have that computer it clocked to 2966, but it will not reach 3200. Wife has the computer now, and doesn't need it to run faster.

My current computer build with 3900X, I made sure the RAM I bought said Ryzen compatible. And no, the RAM wasn't on Gigabyte's QVL, but it is working fine at 3200.

When you buy RAM certified by the motherboard, it will meet that "overclock", if the model number on the RAM is the same. I got burnt once... so I will look for the "Ryzen Compatible" sticker.

@johnebaker

Hi John.

If you look at the image I gave earlier you will see it is recorded by the app as 3200MHz ram running at 2133MHz.

This is backed up by the information on the ram sticks. At maximum load my CPU is running at 4.97GHz. Proxy files if needed are created much fast than they were in 2021 and I have the audio editor up and running again.

So far, apart from the slower exports and I've still got to make comparable project for MEP to test against and find out once and for all why certain projects are failing to close the program, the rest seems to be going smoothly.

Intel GPU is showing the highest level of use I've ever seen when it seems to be needed. The same goes for the nvidia card and disk read speeds have shot to their maximum. Something I've never seen MEP do before. The CPU is rated as being able to use ram at up to 2666MHz but who is to say that it can. MEMTEST86 set it to it's current setting for stability. It is the official test rather than the adapted ROG one. This machine has yet to fall over since I upgraded the C: drive. At present I am still of the opinion that the nvidia cards you and Peter are using are responsible for the export speed differences between the systems. The nvidia card seems to be playing a much larger part in the new Infusion Engine III that the previous version. I sent one of my current projects to Bol who also has a 6GB nvidia card with Intel HD 630 graphics and his results were also better than my own by almost twice the speed.

As a side note, if my project disks are being read close to their maximum rated speed during an export, how can the export be any faster? Maybe I should try buying an SSD for projects and see if there is any improvement to be had there.

Ray.

Hi guys,

Reading this is like Chinese to me. Kirby Lake, Sky Lake, Rocket Lake, Adler Lake, Jump in the Lake, I say, Ryzen, Threadripper, Thudpucker (Jimmy), generations, multithreading, hyper-threading, needle threading, i's, AES New instructions, old instructions, Virtualization technology, getting cataracts, DDR1 through 5, HD 530, UHD 630 and 750, fast, not so fast, what is fast, why would one need more that 512kB of RAM, etc. All mind-boggling.

I am somewhat discouraged by all that I hear as I am trying to get a computer that will work - smooth preview with reasonably fast exports using VPX.

My cell system supplier is threatening to give me a new cell phone that has an 8K camera, amongst many other features. You can also use it as a telephone, apparently. So, maybe I'll need to be able to handle 8K files in VPX. Export will likely not exceed 4K, and even that is pushing it, as we're not planning on upgrading the tele from Full HD. I'm not even planning on getting a new video camera (the old one (full HD) is broken.

Looking at the Magix requirements for 8K editing, they recommend "Quad-core processor with 2.8 GHz or better." Well, guess what? My 10+ year old desktop has that. Intel Core i7-860 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Processor. So why is it not up to par for Full HD? No need to reply.

I downloaded an Excel spreadsheet from Intel with their processors - 223 rows of processors going back to 2013. They are mad!

Why am I going with i7-10700 and not i7-11700? There doesn't seem to be much difference in price. Why not i9? Price? The selected MB ROG STRIX B560-A GAMING WIFI is supposed to be able to accept 11th generation.

Am I going to need new monitors? Mine are 1920x1080. Will they still work with this new machine?

@Reyfox

As for "future" proof... Adler Lake CPU's will probably not be z590 compatible since DDR5 support is what it is proposed to have. So your "future" compatibility will only be limited in expansion usage, and not CPU upgrade to the newer CPU's.

This is 12th generation. So what you are saying is that my computer will be obsolete by the time I get it, as usual.

Thanks,

John CB

@browj2 .... it's not that the computer is obsolete, it will still work, but as far as going forward with the new Intel CPU's go, it will be a "no go" for you. Intel has been known to have users upgrade their motherboards if they want the latest and greatest. It was a major reason for me using AMD Ryzen. My cheap B350 motherboard I bought 4 years ago can support todays Ryzen CPU's with a BIOS update.

But the next gen Intel's are totally new architect, and I can see why. They might stay with compatibility for a few years with Adler, which will use DDR5 RAM instead of DDR4. AMD said in the outset, they would support AM4 chipset for 4 years, and they have. So, I bought the 1000 series CPU, could have put in the 2000, 3000, and now 5000 series CPU's into the same "old" motherboard. Nice. Next gen AMD will require a new motherboard, but again, that should be good for a few years.

You can still use your current monitor. My wife was using a 24" 1080 Acer I've had for 11 years with zero problems. BUT, if you plan on editing 4K, get one of those, and get used to text/icons/etc. being smaller. You will have 4x the screen real estate as 1080. Nice.

Honestly, I've hated Intel for their underhanded, dirty business practices so stayed away from them as much as possible. Then creating a stagnant market where 4 cores, and maybe hyperthreading was it for years and years and years. No advancement and milking the same tired cow dry. No love for them. But I am interested in Adler to see how it actually performs. Who knows, I might build one....

@Reyfox, @browj2

Hi

. . . . if you plan on editing 4K, get one of those, and get used to text/icons/etc. being smaller. . . . .

Here I would disagree with you on getting a 4K monitor, while you may appear to have more real estate, acreage in the UK, the reality is everything is too small to read unless the monitor is at least 28" or greater.

. . . .  I've hated Intel for their underhanded, dirty business practices . . . .

If you are going to accuse one, you may as well include them all.

. . . . Am I going to need new monitors? Mine are 1920x1080. Will they still work with this new machine? . . .

I work with 4K using 1920 x 1080 monitors and everything is fine, easy to read and you can see the difference between 4K and FullHD source video.

. . . . . All mind-boggling . . . .

Sure is if you have not been involved in IT, even then some are still bamboozled with specs, they are usually single subject specialists, this includes some PC makers sales/support staff who do not understand and question why you would want such and such processor and why not the one they want to push, or have experience with, and does not meet software requirements.

John EB

@browj2 @Reyfox @Scenestealer @browj2 @johnebaker

Hi John CB.

While it seems true that the newer the CPU the more 'future proof' a system will be it seems at present (at least to me and going by what was said in that German press release) that the main upgrade is in how they have optimised this version for the use of nvidia graphics cards. John EB is getting the specified export time using an i7-8 series processor which is slower than mine but with a 6GB nvidia card over my 4GB version. What is impressing me is you getting your hands on that nvidia card at a decent price. It is the graphics card that is the most future proof as far as I can see.

Yes you will be stuck for now with Intel HD 630 graphics, four generations in front of current minimum specs.

As for Ryzen being able to upgrade CPUs on the same board I haven't seen one yet go more than a couple of generations. In fact AMD’s original promise was that it would support Socket AM4 through 2020, not that every Socket AM4 motherboard would support every processor. AMD never formally committed to blanket cross-chipset support for the entire product line. It’s not clear that they could. There are technical and economic factors to consider. Never believe anyone's advertising blurb. I was associated with advertising companies for quite a few years on the creative side and they can polish any dung mound.

As for the monitors they will be fine unless you want to get yourself a 4K monitor. You my need new leads though. Check the output socket types of the motherboard and graphics card.

Ray.

@johnebaker I have both a 4K and 1080 on a stand above it. There is a huge difference between the two in image quality. The "appearance" of more acreage with the 4K monitor is a fact. Drag the same window from a 1080 to a 4k and you can see the difference. I personally don't know anyone using a tiny 4k monitor, which I agree, would be a mote point. There is no benefit. But from 27" and up, 1080 can't touch it when working with 4K.

As for everything being to small, I consider now 1080 too big. You can always "adjust" the text and icon size to fit your needs. The only issues are if you can not do that with the UI in some programs. I have Scale and Layout set to 125% and it's fine for me and my 69 year old eyes.

As for Intel... yes, they played real dirty. Dirty enough for the EU to take them to court and for them to pay AMD over a billion. Reading of what they were doing was terrible, trying to deprive customers of choices when they really didn't have to since they were on top. Like Nvidia and GPP.

@CubeAce I wrote the AMD would support the AM4 socket for 4 years. They have. That doesn't mean you can take a Ryzen 9 5950X and stuff it into a budget AM4 socket motherboard. Yes, the pins will fit, but the VRM and power delivery won't be up to it. AMD has kept their word. My B350 Gigabyte mobo with a BIOS update supports 3 generations of Ryzen CPU's (up to 3950X). If I bought a B450, it would support 4 generations of CPU, something Intel is not known for. Ryzen was released in 2017, it's now 2021... compatibility of the AM4 socket is beyond a "couple of generations". So if you bought a really good motherboard back when Ryzen was introduced, you could still be using it by upgrading the BIOS and putting in a faster multicore/thread CPU.

@Reyfox

Hi

. . . . Scale and Layout set to 125% . . . . . from 27" and up . . .

That puts your previous comment into context, so yes it would be better

. . . . . I personally don't know anyone using a tiny 4k monitor . . . .

There was a discussion recently in the forum about 14/15 inch laptops with 4K resolution - a definite no no for legibility in a video editor, not enough acreage, I have a 17" 1920 x 1080 laptop for editing when I am away, and text etc is relatively small, at 100% scaling, fortunately I have glasses specifically for computer use so it is not an issue for my 2 year younger eyes.

John EB

@Scenestealer @Scenestealer @browj2 @johnebaker

Hi @Reyfox

Thank you for the corrections.

I am willing to accept your statements after further research and find you are correct. My sincere apologies.

This now has me wondering. We all have our own views on this and not easily convinced of the other sides arguments. Some time back I put up this topic. It covered how different systems were then able to cope with real life projects.

I gave out one of my own short projects to anyone willing to try it out and see what different systems made of it in terms of play-ability and export times with specific export settings.

We never had a taker with a Ryzen based system as far as I can recall. If you are willing and PM me with an email address I can use to send you the same project to test and see your results, it may change a few minds.

Ray.

@CubeAce, I PM'ed you.

I am not trying to change anyone's ideas of what to buy. It's a personal financial investment. What does happen, and you can see this in the tech youtube video comments is "fanboism" where irrational statements are made and you see confirmation bias starting to happen as people take sides. I started with Intel 386SX, then 486, then PIII 450 for video editing. Then AMD came out with Athlon/Duron which were superior. From that point, it was AMD until today for me. Now, while I am no fan of Intel, I am interested to see what their new CPU's will be like. So I am looking forward to their release. Everyone knows where AMD will be.

@Reyfox

Hi

. . . . you can see this in the tech youtube video comments is "fanboism" where irrational statements are made and you see confirmation bias starting to happen as people take sides. . . . .

That is very true and is often carried to an irrational extreme.

If I were into gaming I would be in the AMD camp as they have cornered a lot of the gaming market, however for certain activities eg video editing, there is an advantage in having an Intel processor, with an appropriate active iGPU and a Nvidia GPU, it is the capability of being able to use both GPUs in tandem with the newest versions of Movie Edit Pro, Video Pro X, and to some extent Photostory.

Some effects are accelerated in the iGPU rather than the discrete GPU, and many 3rd party plugins benefit from discrete GPU acceleration eg NeatVideo Denoiser, this is where AMD based PC's can have issues, as we have seen many times in the forum, in having only one GPU to work with.

This is why Intel based systems are the preferred option, AMD systems will perform, however often not as well as the user expects.

John EB

@browj2

Hi John

Jump in the Lake.....👍Like it!

The issue of future proofing in your case is a bit of a moot point when you consider that you have only upgraded your system after 10 years or more, like most of us, and by the time that comes around you are most likely to, or will have to biff the whole system!

@Reyfox @johnebaker

. . . . Scale and Layout set to 125% . . . . . from 27" and up . . .

A while back I tried Windows scaling with MEP on a laptop and ran into a problem where the GUI's text boxes would cut off the text therein.

I work with 4K using 1920 x 1080 monitors and everything is fine, easy to read and you can see the difference between 4K and FullHD source video.

I agree - 4K still looks better, just as HD looks better when rendered from 4K.

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter,

Actually, the only future-proofing we should be worried about at our age is our expiry date. We have already gone beyond the "best before" date, at least that's what I hear. I'll be happy if I'm around to need another computer in 10 years.

John CB

@browj2

Roger that, John!

@johnebaker "however for certain activities eg video editing, there is an advantage in having an Intel processor, with an appropriate active iGPU and a Nvidia GPU, it is the capability of being able to use both GPUs in tandem with the newest versions of Movie Edit Pro, Video Pro X, and to some extent Photostory."

This is true, but only with some video editing software like MEP/VPX. Puget Systems, who only used Intel a couple of years ago recommend AMD processors over Intel for anything about the standard computer. The same if you are editing with Resolve. I personally use Resolve Studio 17 with some projects. And while video editing is one set of programs that consumers use, you have to look at the total use of the CPU in gaming, 3D (Blender), etc., where core/thread count are advantageous. Everyone should look at their needs and buy the hardware that fits it best. This being a budget dependent issue.

"Some effects are accelerated in the iGPU rather than the discrete GPU, and many 3rd party plugins benefit from discrete GPU acceleration eg NeatVideo Denoiser, this is where AMD based PC's can have issues, as we have seen many times in the forum, in having only one GPU to work with."

As for NeatVideo, it will make use of both CPU and GPU and will set the software up to decide how many cores/gpu you will use. There are zero issues with using NeatVideo (using 4.8.7) with an all AMD computer.

Update - the computer guy came back and told me that the i7-10700 was on back-order but that they could get or had the i7-10700K. The power requirements are higher and I asked about this. He came back that there should be no problem with the i7-10700KF. What? I reminded him that my first criteria was Intel® UHD Graphics 630. He replied that with the RTX 3060 ZOTAC graphics card Intel Graphics was redundant and would do nothing. I insisted on the i7-10700K.

Magix site for VPX states:

INFUSION Engine 3 supports video acceleration and export for AVC and HEVC* on Intel, NVIDIA or AMD GPUs with 1GB VRAM or higher; for example: Intel Graphics HD 630, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1050, AMD Radeon RX470

So, I am somewhat confused. I am still presuming that for HWA, one needs Intel Graphics. Is this correct or could I have gone with the i7-10700KF with no impact an anything - HWA during export, preview/playback, etc?

What about HWA for normal export to MP4?

Thanks,

John

.... or you could wait for Adler Lake......

@browj2

From what we see on the forum here John and based on how I see my system react in the task manager I would personally definitely want an Intel GPU alongside an nvidia graphics card for both playback and export. I have never seen a previous version of MEP so tuned to using both.

That is with 11 tracks of 4K footage.

This is with MEP 2022 set to nvidia nvidia nvidia but you can still see the Intel GPU being pressed into service. A lot will depend on the effects in use at the time and complexity of the project but on average I'm finding the build stable. No real lockups, CPU on tick-over most but not all the time. Both GPUs showing much more signs of activity than in past MEP versions as well as much more dynamic use of memory. Is it much quicker than the last version? Not for me personally as looking at task manager the program would be using more vram if I had more in the places where export is at its fastest.

Ray.

@browj2

Hi John

I agree with Ray - definitely need the iGPU, it works in tandem with my RTX 2060 for some effects.

John EB

@Reyfox

Hi,

Adler Lake and so on. There will always be a next version; one of the perennial problems with hardware and software. One has to jump in the lake at some point.

@CubeAce @johnebaker

Hi Ray and John EB,

Thanks for confirming what I thought.

There was another problem that almost escaped my attention. I had asked for a second internal HD and they switched it for an external without mentioning it. Grrr. They managed to come up with an internal WD 7200 rpm, in stock.

I'll let you all know how this turns out.

Thanks again,

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

I'm running two internal WD 7200 SATA blacks for projects and they only have 32MB buffers but run projects just fine.

Ray.