@johnebaker

Try the following, after saving the take, clear the program cache, Edit > Empty undo and cache memory.

Unfortunately, that did not work for me using MMS2024. Are you suggesting this works for MMS2025 or VDL2026?

@me_again

BUT if the video clip has no audio or is ungrouped (audio and video separate) then the Take is corrupt, only 1 second long, all black and crashes MS2025 when trying to add to timeline.

I confirm this bug in MMS2024

@johnebaker

Importing a video only clip, ie no audio track before import, still works fine for me.

I tried this (by changing the program settings) but still resulted in a corrupt Take as @me-again has reported. (MMS2024)

@Can-Dive

Hi

Thanks for testing.

. . . . Are you suggesting this works for MMS2025 or VDL2026 . . . .

No, I suspected there may be a caching issue with MMS 2024..

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John EB,

Further testing. I copied my takes done with MMS2025 to another folder and tried opening them. They both show up as 1s on the timeline. In the source monitor, they show as the correct duration. When dragging to the timeline the Take shows the image the full length, but when dropped, 1s.

I have another older Take that has no audio. It imports correctly in both MMS and VPX. So it seem that the problem is if there is any audio.

To annoy me, I went back into MMS and lo and behold, one of the takes with audio that would only come in as 1s, now came with the correct duration. I tried importing it again - 1s. Go figure.

One other thing, I cannot preview a Take from the Media Pool and then drag it to the timeline, whether trimmed or not, in either MMS or VPX. No, wait, I managed to do it once in a new project, but couldn't do it again.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

So basically Takes are more useful when sections of video are considered for reuse for multiple projects and where footage may be brought in from more than one drive.

In my list, I mentioned importing from long digitized videos that have multiple themes that require splitting up. Just create a take out of each theme and open the project for that theme later and import the take. You are mostly going out, filming, then creating videos out of what you filmed. I think that you'll find that more and more users are those trying to save and make something out of footage from various sources created over the last 50+ years. Other than my own 8mm, S8 sound, VHS, DV sources, I have received much of the same plus thousands of photos to be scanned, from various relatives, both on my side and my wife's and asked to save the furniture before all is lost. This is much the same as what @Pete-Lowland is doing. Going through a 2 hour digitized video with multiple themes requires some methods that you would probably not need in the normal course of editing. Once the material has been digitized and gone through, one has several years work ahead of them to create the many various projects.

@Pete-Lowland and others,

Keep a register that includes the source file, the themes with descriptions and any Movies and Takes that you make out of them. A database would be more appropriate.

John CB

Greetings all,

OK now I'm really confused. If this has been mentioned so far in this topic then I apologise but can someone please try this?

• Create a Take (must be a video clip that has audio attached as I previously mentioned)
• Before you do anything else, LEFT click on the take and drag to viewer DO NOT USE THE SMALL EDIT BUTTONS
• Edit the length of the take as required
• Left click on the take again and drag to the timeline. The length edit is respected hopefully.

When you save that project and re-open it, the takes in the folder viewer are the original length BUT the takes on the timeline are the edited lengths. I assume this is the way it should be?

AndyW

ps - classing myself as a non-take user should the take, whether length edited or not, import to the timeline with audio? I just seem to get the video.

Hi everyone

To add to the confusion, I got another 'oddity' while repeating testing, after creating the take and importing:

Note the file extension ??? Restarting MMS and adding the same take resulted in no PRV file extension

I am putting together a bug report for Magix Support with a sample project demonstrating the issue and crash logs.

John EB

@Pete-Lowland @johnebaker @Bol @AAProds @browj2 @CubeAce

Hi everyone,

I think I worked out why I could not replicate @Pete-Lowland's workflow on triming Takes. I am using MMS2024 but would be interested if the same issue (bug) is in VDL2026. Here are the steps to test:

1. Move an object from the Media pool to the timeline, trim it and save it as a Take. (assume the Take is 20 sec long)
2. Delete the object on the timeline
3. Go to the Takes folder and click on the Trim icon [ ] and trim the Take in the Program monitor to say 10 seconds.
4. Move the Take to the timeline by either click and drag from the Media Pool or use the Arrow icon
5. Result: The Take on the timeline reverts to 20 seconds
6. Create a new Project (do not save the current project)
7. Again, select the Take with the Trim icon and trim the Take in the Program Monitor to 10 seconds
8. Click and drag or use the Arrow icon to move the Take to the timeline.
9. Result: The Take on the timeline is now 10 seconds long.

Also note that if after making Takes, the program is closed and reopened, one is able to subsequently trim Takes and the new trim length will be maintained when the trimmed Take is moved to the timeline.

It appears the system retains in memory the original Take length and it cannot be further trimmed unless a new project is created or the program is restarted. Would someone please confirm my finding? Thanks. 🤓

Hi Can-Dive,

Confirmed and tested:

Conclusion: In the first project (in which the take was created) its not possible to trim the take and move the new size to the timeline. In a brand new project however it will move the trimmed take as a .PRV in the timeline. Any earlier made take (from another project) can be trimmed and moved into the timeline.

Kind regards

Peter

@Pete-Lowland

Thanks for testing and confirming

@me_again

I confirm your findings. Using your workflow of dragging the take to the Program Monitor allows the ability to trim the Take before moving it to the timeline. You also found another bug which the Take loses its audio.

@johnebaker

Do you know the significance of the PRV file extension? It seems to get created when you create a new project, trim the Take in the Program Monitor and then move the trimmed Take to the timeline. The PRV doesn't occur if you create a new project and just move the Take to the timeline. But by doing that, you lose the ability to subsequently trim the Take.

If you are submitting a bug report it looks like we have a couple of issues regarding Takes;

1. Takes cannot be trimmed without creating a new Project, restarting the program or using @me_again's workflow
2. Takes lose their audio when created
3. Takes become corrupt when attached audio is excluded (Source Objects without audio are not affected)
4. When Takes are trimmed and moved to the timeline, they take on a PRV extension. (I'm not sure if the PRV extension is a bug or just the way the file is handled on the timeline.)
5. The Automatic Application icon does not work for Takes as it does for Objects. In the Media Pool, if you click and drag an Object or use the Arrow icon to move it to the timeline, the entire Object is moved. If you trim an Object in the Program Monitor, you need to click and drag it from the Program Monitor or use the Automatic Application icon (or its options) to transfer the Object to the timeline to maintain its trim. To be consistent, Takes should be treated the same as Objects for all intents and purposes.

Sidenote: another unique feature of Takes, which may or may not have been previously mentioned, is that they retain the effects applied to source Object.

@johnebaker

No matter how hard I try, or order I do things in, or how the take is created I cannot get a PRV extension. I'm rather disappointed. Could it be yet another feature of my "corrupt" system discussed in another thresd 🙂?

@Can-Dive

The PRV doesn't occur if you create a new project and just move the Take to the timeline. But by doing that, you lose the ability to subsequently trim the Take.

Again, on my system no matter when I add a take, be it the full thing or an edit, I can add the same take again and again ad infinitum, each time editing the length using the workflow I (almost) accidentally found.

AndyW

ps I've created more takes in the past couple of days than I have in 20+ years of using Magix 😱

@me_again

True, your workflow will not create the PRV extension. To do this, follow these steps once you created a Take and the Takes folder is your Media Pool:

1. Create a new project
2. Use the trim icon [ ] to transfer the Take to the Program Monitor
3. Trim the Take in the Program Monitor
4. Go back to the Meda Pool and use the Arrow icon to transfer the Take to the timeline.
5. The Take on the timeline should have the PRV extension

@Can-Dive

OK, got that. Thanks.

i've always thought that takes aren't really worth the effort, not for what I do anyway.

AndyW

Hi all,

Small additional points:

When I start creating the takes from all of the old material, they automatically show up in the standard Takes map.

In the next step, when I trim and/or add effects to the take on the timeline, VDL automatically creates a new Take submap on the current Project map. The take saved maintains all the changes I made (tested additional frames, stabilization, trimming and zooms)

Interesting;

1. It saves the video and the title separately, I did not check audio as I am currently working with silent material (yes its very old).

2. There appears no red dot when you start using the original take, so its a bit difficult to understand what's used and what is not. (For now solved by creating a "Take used" sub map)

Have fun,

Peter.

@me_again, @Pete-Lowland, @browj2, @johnebaker, @CubeAce, @Can-Dive, @AAProds

Hello everyone,

I've been following this thread with great interest. To avoid the problems described on the forum so far, I finally decided to convert all my *.TK2 files to, for example, *.MPEG-2 or MP4 files. I can now freely edit my old movie files, recorded on mini DV tapes with my old Canon MV750i camera, using the timeline of all Video Deluxe and Pro X versions released to date. However, if you continue to choose to use *.TK2 files, you should keep in mind that a single *.TK2 file always contains the entire original movie. A *.TK2 file is created containing the beginning and end of this take. Users should also be aware that if the original movie becomes damaged or is renamed, etc., the resulting *.TK2 files will be rendered useless, with all the consequences that entails.

Good luck,
Rob

@Bol

Rob, recoding of, especially, old SD footage simply for easier access is not desirable. And unless you delete the source file, your video storage requirements will increase dramatically if you do make snippets of your source file/s.

Secondly, an even basic backup system/regime will preserve both the parent file and all the TK files. In any case, TK files aren't critical. If they are lost/misplaced, provided the source file is not lost, then no real harm is done.

@Bol, @Pete-Lowland

Hi Rob, Peter

. . . . a single *.TK2 file always contains the entire original movie . . . .

Not quite, a Take does not contain any video content, it is a reference to the original video clip, and contains information such as video clip file name, location, the In/Out points (trimming) which define which section of the clip is to be displayed on the timeline, if non are set then the whole video clip will be loaded any effects that are applied to that clip.

I agree with @AAProds comment, Take files are not critical for a project, they are a quick method of extracting parts of a video file with effects if applied for use in many projects.

However, the source video is critical, without this a Take fails, as can be seen in the clip below where the file referenced to is missing, I moved it to another folder.

HTH

John EB

@johnebaker, @AAProds

Hello John,

..... a single *.TK2 file always contains the entire original movie.....

Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, but I meant to say that a single *.TK2 file consists of references (the start and end positions of a take). But that you can extract a *.TK2 file on the timeline to the entire movie.

....The source video is crucial, however...

I wholeheartedly agree.

@AAProds, all my AVI source files are safely stored on two separate, identical external hard drives. Why it is / wasn't desirable to export my *.TK2 as MPEG or MP4 files is completely beyond me. If it's just a matter of storage space, that's no longer an issue these days. For around €100.00, you can get a 4TB external hard drive. I don't use a backup system myself. I still make manual backups of all my internal drives on Wednesdays and Sundays using Total Commander on external drives. I also always make a full backup of my startup drive using Acronis True Image, so I can quickly restore it when needed.

Best wishes,
Rob

@Bol

Sadly a 4TB drive lasts me less than a year now, and that's just photos, not including a backup drive.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

.....unfortunately, a 4 TB hard drive now lasts less than a year, and that's just for photos, without a backup drive...

I disagree with the above statement. My 2.5-inch external USB HDD drives of 1, 2, and 4 TB are all over four years old and show no signs of aging or defects. I regularly check these drives for errors with CHKDSK x:. I always have two identical drives available, just in case something goes wrong.

This is what it says online: "A 2.5-inch USB HDD with a capacity of 4TB typically has a lifespan of 3 to 5 years, depending on how intensively and under what conditions you use it".

Here are a few factors that affect that lifespan:

• Usage: Frequent reading and writing shortens the lifespan. With heavy use, 1 in 5 HDDs can fail within five years.
• Physical stress: HDDs are sensitive to shock, vibration, and temperature fluctuations. An external drive that is frequently transported wears out faster.
• Drive quality: Brands and models vary. Some premium drives last longer than budget models.
• Storage without use: If you rarely use the drive and store it properly, it can theoretically last much longer.

Signs of wear and tear:

• Clicking or grinding noises (the infamous "click of death")
• Slow file access (after optimization)
• Frequent error messages or corrupted data

Have a nice weekend,
Rob

PS. Apologies that my answer has become very lengthy.

@Bol

Hi Rob

I am in the same boat as @CubeAce, wear and tear is not the issue, storage space is.

My first 4TB backup drive is about 18 months old and is already 80+% full, after the current project which has 190GB of video and images, before I start editing, during which disc space gets consumed quickly, I will be switching to a 5TB drive I have prepped up ready for use.

. . . . are all over four years old and show no signs of aging or defects . . . .

Nor should they, the average lifespan of a HDD is between 5 - 10 years depending on usage, parameters to watch are total spin time and total read and writes.

SSD's are a different issue and I would not use these for long term storage, when they go it is often immediate and fatal. John EB

@Bol @johnebaker

Ha! Lost in translation I think.

Yes I meant 4TBs is not enough space. I shot just over 72 GBs of raw files last Saturday and that's without the resulting edited jpegs after. I was out again today but haven't as yet downloaded the results of today's efforts onto the PC. Luckily I didn't have to shoot video or that 4TBs could have gone within the day.

I'm with John on SSDs and worse, never use something like SD cards for long term storage even though those are really cheap as chips and amazingly compact vs storage space. Having said that I have accidentally 'lost' a micro SD card for four years to find the contents in tact, and even my oldest compact flash drives from 2009 are still going strong.

Then there is the problem of physically labelling a micro SD card 🤣🤣🤣.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Sorry Ray, for misunderstanding and misinterpreting your answer. I'm currently busy with personal matters, but I'll definitely get back to you.

Best wishes,

Rob