Comments

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

All I know is my i5 system was working like the clappers and was still slow to render by comparison.

Well yes - in this case the CPU may have been near it's limit but in the case of your Nvidia card I am suggesting it still has headroom to accomplish more if the program required it. Not saying though that another card might not work slightly better than that particular one, but I would not be putting more money down without trialing one first.

What if the increase in CUDA cores allows the i9 processor to open up more? Maybe it's just twiddling its metaphorical thumbs waiting for more work to do?

No, it works the other way around. In my experience every task that can be outsourced to the GPUs, like computation of video effects, utilises the CPU less.

I think you need to consider that the MEP as a consumer program is designed to make best use of average hardware so the most customers can have the best experience, not just the people with high end systems.

Interesting topic just started where the member has a very high end laptop, with the option of NVMe M.2s I spoke about earlier, that despite the efforts of Dell and Magix support can not get smooth playback of a fairly simple example project (mind you I think there may be something odd happening there!).

Thanks Jeff for chipping in on the UAC question.

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

If you are referring to the 'Choppy Playback' topic posted recently I can say I get similar playback choppiness to his video, sometimes worse when using titling along with animating the titling during playback. So basically titling plus moving the titles around along with increasing and decreasing their sizes and using multiple instances of the same animated titles with different wording. Doesn't affect rendering at all apart from the slowing down of rendering during those passages. Also the inaction of slider controls. Ignite Classic Cine Style is particularly bad in that respect.

Ray.

I had another look at the video posted by emillo and realised he had checked off MEP in the NVIDIA 3D settings and realised I hadn't done that myself.

So I added MEP to the list of programs and kept to the settings as already listed.

Then firing up MEP I noticed a few things. Playback where the graphics files are being processed is now smooth and not dropping frames but something I didn't expect nor can explain is now the audio when scrolling is much more coherent. Before doing this is was spluttery and disjointed. Didn't keep up with scrolling back and forth with the video sync and made editing purely visual looking solely at the waveform to get my editing queues from. Now I can rock the portion back and forth and stop pretty much on target. Being used to using old open reel tape machines to do physical editing in the past I find scrolling this way a lot easier than possibly more modern effective ways of doing it.

Both the Intel GPU and NVIDIA GPU now seem to be getting more use with the Intel now using between 23 to 35% of capacity in use and the NVIDIA is now using between 12 to 47% of its resources. Even the CPU usage has increased slightly to between 7 to 12 % during exporting.

Export times in HEVC has increased slightly on the same project I've been using for timing using the previous quality settings I'd settled on adding about another 40 seconds to the render time. I found that a bit odd.

For anyone interested in the complexity of the project I've been talking about I'll pm them a Dropbox link to the video file. It's nothing fancy but consists of various different files ranging from 1080p slow-mo footage (x 4 speed) and some 4k footage used for close-ups as well as using slow-mo footage sped back up to normal speed and adding a separate aac. sound file to it to sync up to. or sometimes slowing down the sound file to match the slow-mo footage.

I will make it downloadable as Dropbox is limiting playback to 720p. The file is around 550MB.

I'm not the best cameraman out there but MEP has made film making more interesting as a hobby for me.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . Export times in HEVC has increased slightly on the same project I've been using for timing using the previous quality settings I'd settled on adding about another 40 seconds to the render time. I found that a bit odd. . . . .

Depending on what the 40 secs represents as a %age increase, 2 GPUs may have introduced very small delays, which can add up quickly, during the rendering operation due to switching parts of the process between GPUs and waiting for one or the other to finish its processing before the next processing can start.

HTH

John EB

@johnebaker

That makes sense John, particularly with my NVIDIA card not even being that capable within MEP.

I'm just surprised by the other unexpected improvements through adding MEP to the NVIDIA 3D settings.

Maybe I should look at downloading those gaming drivers.

@CubeAce

I am surprised as well, especially as you have not changed any of the Nvidia settings for MEP, so that it is still using the same settings as the global settings. Are you sure nothing else has changed - like a Windows update? What happens if you remove MEP from the 3D settings list of programs - does it revert?

Are you exporting with the "Calculate video effects on GPU" ticked in all your tests?

I would be interested in your dropbox link.

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

I tried taking MEP out of the NVIDIA settings as you suggested and yes, the project opening titles went back to stuttering and the audio scrolling was once again back to almost being unusable. There's been no Windows update as far as I'm aware and it's on let me decide rather than auto.

I have not altered any export settings for any of these tests Peter or I can't make effective observations.

I will PM you a link. Let me know if it lets you download the file or not.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

I have not altered any export settings for any of these tests Peter or I can't make effective observations.

I appreciate that but I was just asking which condition you have been testing under "Calculate Effects on GPU " ticked or unticked?

I down loaded your file - nice work but I thought you were making the whole project available. This is probably unpractical as the source files would be untrimmed and too large. The clips in the forest come out very dark when played on Windows default player - was this intended? One strange thing is that I stored the clip on my HDD which shows a huge amount of activity when playing in the player ie. a sustained 30 MegaBytes / sec which is about 8 times the data rate of 35 megabits of your HEVC file??

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

Funnily enough I was messaging John about it was a shame it was not practical to export the project due to it being over 15gig in size.

As to your first question. I have had that box ticked on every export.

Second question. It was a very bright day and the contrast in the wooded area very strong. Any attempt to lighten the darker areas made the image very grainy in those areas so I left it as it originally came out of the video camera.

Third: Have you looked at the clip in MediaInfo? Could it be because my Graphics card doesn't do HEVC? I've no idea.Sorry.

Project wise.

What I'm finding now though is I can't get scrolling to produce an even audio sound at slow speeds. Short audio clips can't use the BPM wizard and it takes time to produce animated graphics that work in time with music when using the keyframe editor. It appears, according to the manual, that I can't get the same precision of audio scrolling as I can in Cubase where I can play a track very slowly back and forth to get to a precise editing point.

This is making my keyframe editing with graphics very slow even if I mark out the BPM manually. Add the stuttering of graphics when playing back and I have to render a part of the project before I'm sure I have made everything in sync.

I know I am the main maker of these problems as I try to push what can be done and probably expecting too much. Story of my life I guess 😁.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . I have not altered any export settings for any of these tests . . . .

MediaInfo shows the video bitrate is 34.2 Mb/s - this is approx 3.4 x greater than the default HEVC 1920 x 1080 MP4 preset is set to - see image below.

You may also find, as shown in the image, that, if the NVIDIA G Force GT 1030 is set as the encoder, software encoding is being used - the GT 1030 does not support HEVC encoding - the image is from my laptop and the iGPU does not support HEVC encoding.

HTH

John EB

@CubeAce

Calculate Video Effects on GPU in a lot of cases with a fast system, slows down export rendering.

Third: Have you looked at the clip in MediaInfo? Could it be because my Graphics card doesn't do HEVC? I've no idea.Sorry.

I think there is some confusion here - your Nvidia card does not do HW encoding via NVENC with HEVC but your Intel iGPU should take over this role via Quicksync. MEP can not utilise NVENC anyway, unlike VPX which is very speedy.

As John has mentioned 35Mbps is very high for HEVC 1920x1080 even for 50fps. This is like a 4k bitrate setting.

@johnebaker

You may also find, as shown in the image, that, if the NVIDIA G Force GT 1030 is set as the encoder, software encoding is being used - the GT 1030 does not support HEVC encoding - the image is from my laptop and the iGPU does not support HEVC encoding.

Not sure what is going on there. You can not actually set a specific GPU to use as a HW encoder with the Default Intel set.

Peter

@johnebaker

Hi John.

I have my own bitrate setting for YouTube exports which when uploaded playback from YouTube in such a way as I can't see any degradation from my original file. It may be high but it seems to offset the additional compression YouTube otherwise seems to do to my uploads.

Here's the weird thing.

I just found this link in the Video Pro X webpages on the Magix site.

https://www.magix.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Produkte/Pro/Video_Pro_X11/video-pro-x11-notes-regarding-hardware-acceleration-eng.pdf

I'm wondering why that isn't available on the other MEP product pages?

I think it would have been certainly useful and relevant information for my PC build.

I just found this link in the Video Pro X webpages on the Magix site.

https://www.magix.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Produkte/Pro/Video_Pro_X11/video-pro-x11-notes-regarding-hardware-acceleration-eng.pdf

I'm wondering why that isn't available on the other MEP product pages?

I think it would have been certainly useful and relevant information for my PC build.

Thanks for the link.

If you do find that for MEP please post it.

Reading that PDF makes me think that my PC is very old, and all my video cards are all obsoleted. 😭

@wongck

I can't find another pdf covering this and never I'd seen this one before. As all the versions share the same graphics engine I have to assume similar requirements must be met for best results. It does seem to give a bit more insight into MEPs specific requirements

I also have three obsolete video cards sitting in a draw in front of me as well as four really expensive obsolete sound cards which I loved but driver support for them finished with each Windows change of operating system. Even now my current printer no longer works as it has no Win 10 support.

I would like to say my cars last longer than my PCs but the truth is they last shorter as I'm a very high mileage driver. Trying to get any modern engine to last beyond 200,000 miles is an almost impossibility and I can clock that up in a few years.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . I think it would have been certainly useful and relevant information for my PC build . . . .

I do not think it would have helped you with export hardware acceleration - did you notice the crucial word in the first paragraph of the document - see below:

- - - - With the brand-new INFUSION Engine, we have prioritized making the most efficient video decoding possible.- - - - -

AFAICS there is no mention of encoding unless of course the highlighted word above is a typo.

@wongck

. . . . i7-4770 . . . . Nvidia GTX960 . . . . . me think that my PC is very old, and all my video cards are all obsoleted

If you are working with:

1. 4K video - the Intel processor is capable of working with 4K - you can edit etc however the integrated HD4600 GPU or the GTX 960 do not support 4K encoding, preview playback will be choppy and exporting slow.
   
   and/or
2. HEVC - neither the integrated HD4600 GPU or the GTX 960 support HEVC encoding - the GTX960 does not support the new NVidia NVENC codec - see this matrix for cards that do support this.

Otherwise for FullHD or lower resolution, h.264, AVCHD video the processor/graphics combination is still very capable.

HTH

John EB

I still holding back to ful HD only, as my video cam are only Full HD.

So looks like it is still fine at least for this year's holiday videos.

@johnebaker

Hi John.

I was thinking more around the lines of having the information about how the graphics cards and internal Intel GPU interacted with each other and the information about how to go about setting it up for anyone starting from scratch or updating a system could help in that way. How many queries have we had on this forum where that information could have been useful had it or something similar been placed on other pages relating to a particular version of MEP?

@CubeAce @johnebaker @wongck

Hi

The document Ray has linked to is quite recent on the English site but it has been discussed a bit in the German forum for a little longer.

I agree that the information on making sure both GPU's are available would well be useful on the MEP site but the information about HW HEVC encoding and decoding on Page 6 would need to be removed to avoid confusion, of which there seems to be plenty, about the differences in the two programs and how they utilise the hardware.

From page 6 in the document:-

Activating a NVIDIA GeForce

Video Pro X exclusively offers support for graphics cards from NVIDIA. In addition to accelerated calculation of effects, these graphics cards can be used for accelerated decoding and encoding of videos in HEVC format.

The encoding is accelerated during export via the NVENC chip on medium to high end later model Nvidia cards in VPX but this is not available in MEP. The decoding is accelerated via NVDEC and by the Stream Processors (aka CUDA cores) on the Nvidia card in VPX and this gives a huge boost to the playback smoothness with HEVC material, especially where there are multi video tracks as in P in P's or Collages. I assume this is because of the greater processing ability of the discreet card when coupled with the power of the Intel iGPU whereas in MEP all the (decoding) work is been done on the iGPU - alluded to in this statement:-

In addition to you Intel CPU with Intel® HD/UHD Graphics unit, do you have a dedicated graphics card installed in your PC? Then, you can also take advantage of the full power of your Intel graphics unit in Video Pro X.

and,

If you primarily use HEVC videos in your projects, an NVIDIA graphics card provides the most performance.

This is born out in my tests with the same material in MEP2020 and VPX11whilst monitoring the respective GPU's in Task Manager.

John EB said:-

HEVC - neither the integrated HD4600 GPU or the GTX 960 support HEVC encoding - the GTX960 does not support the new NVidia NVENC codec - see this matrix for cards that do support this.

This is not correct. The GTX960 and 950 desktop cards support NVENC for HEVC and so does even the GTX750 with the second Gen Maxwell chip according to that matrix. It is MEP (unlike VPX) that cannot use NVENC for encoding and the Nvidia GPU for decoding HEVC.

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter

. . . . It is MEP (unlike VPX) that cannot use NVENC for encoding and the Nvidia GPU for decoding HEVC . . .

Thanks for the correction.

Cheers

John EB

@Scenestealer

Thank you for that information Peter. Most helpful.

I sometimes think though that Magix misses marketing opportunities about their products as when you read individual specifications and abilities between some of the variations of MEP the potential customer doesn't get the full idea of the extent of the differences between the programs other than one has more options in processing footage within Pro X than Premium. There is no hint of variation in either playback or export capabilities or that there is any variation within the new Fusion Engine between versions.

The same as at one time I swear I saw a version with a dedicated control unit but haven't seen that recently. Was I imagining that?

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . The same as at one time I swear I saw a version with a dedicated control unit but haven't seen that recently. Was I imagining that? . . . .

No you are not imaging a Magix program with a control unit - it was not MEP but Music Maker 2018 Control Edition which came with a Miditech Midistart USB MIDI keyboard/controller. I have seen this on offer in Germany and Austria.

John EB