@emmrecs The current latest version of VPX is 17.0.2.47. I have not needed to use multicam for some time so cannot comment on its use but I am pretty sure other users have. Hopefully, they will add their input (I know @JohnCB) has posted problems to his bug list). Jeff

I wish someone would chime in. Is multicam fixed or not?

@Glenn-Woiler

Current Version 17.0.2.47 - multicam works fine for me. It may be that some others have problems.

John CB

@Glenn-Woiler

Current Version 17.0.2.47 - multicam works fine for me. It may be that some others have problems.

John CB

I am back at version 16.0.????? It worked find in version 15. I can't see plunking down a bunch of money to get something I once had.

I must join in here, unfortunately, with a quite disappointing experience with Multicam in Video Pro X 17.0.

I am very eager to know whether others share my experience, or whether I am simply unable to understand the basics here.

My main reason for buying VPro X was the promising Multicam feature. Now, after 2 weeks of trying, I am very confused:

1. Realtime cutting behaves very erratically: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I can see no clear pattern.
2. Pausing cut with the spacebar (or the play/stop button) will ALWAYS insert another unintended cut at the cursor position. This forces me to do a manual "replace" after each cut!
3. Source preview window is very tedious to use: I am apparently unable to arrange the different cams on screen, so especially in "vertical" movie formats (such as 9:16) on a landscape monitor, I am never able to view all cams at once in a reasonable size (which makes it veeery hard to see the differences required for realtime cutting)
4. Still for the source preview window: Its resolution is much worse than during normal playback (is it using even smaller proxy files?). Like point 3., this makes realtime cutting decisions practically impossible (I can't see which cam gives the best view if all cams are tiny and blurry at the same time).
5. Why the heck aren't ANY rotation and size effects from the source tracks transferred to multicam mode? I'd consider this a very BASIC behaviour. They expect me to audio-align everything in advance, so why aren't I allowed to visually align everything beforehand? This makes no sense at all. Even worse, it forces me to cut on raw material, even it it's topside down!
6. Why can't I apply ANY cross-fades in multicam mode? All I can do is to MOVE clips over one another, but that will always shift the whole timeline. If the software can store metadata for the cut positions, why can't it simply remember transitions?
7. ... there's much more (1. through 6. are only the most prominent findings)

All of this gives my a lot of hard time and very little benefit out of multicam. In fact, they render it nearly unusable for me.

I am very astonished about this. Video Pro X is the "most professional" video editing tool I've ever licensed so far (after years with Premiere Elements). So it seems I've expected way too much :(

I must join in here, unfortunately, with a quite disappointing experience with Multicam in Video Pro X 17.0.

Yeah... Thanks for all that. I have been wondering if I should pay for an upgrade, and your experience clearly tells me Multicam is still not fixed. It worked like a gem back in version 14 or 15. Don't remember now. Then they upgraded me so it would work in Windows 10 and it is a no go for multicam. Am using the Davinci Resolve that came with the Pocket 4K cam and it is great, but is still missing too much basic text and transition stuff. It seems with upgrades, you lose more stuff that worked great years ago!

Thanks, @Glenn-Woiler, for your confirmation

But I am curious ...

Look at the little sister... touting multicam!

... The new Movie Edit Pro 2020 Plus

Is multicam in Edit Pro 2020 Plus as expected... especially: Any experience concerning my issues stated above? Because I am considering to switch.

Thanks, @Glenn-Woiler, for your confirmation

But I am curious ...

Look at the little sister... touting multicam!

... The new Movie Edit Pro 2020 Plus

 

Is multicam in Edit Pro 2020 Plus as expected... especially: Any experience concerning my issues stated above? Because I am considering to switch.

 

I hear ya.... I paid bigger bucks for Video Pro X and wouldn't you expect multicam to work????

@phonebooth

I'm using VPX11 17.0.3.63. You indicate only 17.0, so which version are you actually using?

To answer point by point:

1. I have no problem. Read the manual. Select a camera to start with - the rectangle becomes red. Start playback. When I change cameras, the active camera/video clip is showing in the preview monitor, red rectangle in the Source monitor, and that is the video clip that will be put on track 1 from the point where I clicked on a camera. Click on another camera, rectangle becomes red, video plays in playback monitor, and that one becomes the source and will be put on track 1 from the point where the camera was selected. Etc. There is nothing erratic about this. The video selected does not always show up right away on track 1. Don't worry about that. It will show up. If you stop playback, then the camera last selected will be the one on the track 1 from when it was selected, not a different one. Watch carefully.
2. Not in my version. Only clicking on a camera causes a camera change, stopping playback does not. I presume that you have the spacebar set to stop at the location where playback stops, not at the beginning of the clip. See under Program settings.
3. The cameras are arranged in the Source monitor from left to right and follow the tracks. Top left is track 3, top right is track 5, etc. "vertical" movie formats (such as 9:16) - fingernails on a chalkboard! Are you serious? Do not take vertical video! If you have to use it, treat it separately first - export it using the normal landscape settings to an mxv file, and use that in your main video. If you want something to fill in the black part, then do that first when you make the intermediate. What is the size of you monitor? I use a 25" and a 27" inch monitor, with Preview, Source, Project folder on one, Timeline and Media Pool on the other. If you have 1 small screen, of course you're going to have trouble seeing 9 video screens.
4. Mine are not blurry.
5. You are doing multi-cam; that means normal camera files. You specifically are warned not to use resized or moved video clips. See the warning below. Again, if you need to do this, make an intermediate with section, size, position, rotation, etc., all done and use that. Other videos effects, of course, work and should be done before going into multi-cam.
6. Again, Multi-cam is for doing multi-cam, not effects. If you're done with multi-cam, turn it off and make your transitions on track 1. "All I can do is to MOVE clips over one another, but that will always shift the whole timeline." Not true. You need to learn how to edit. See my videos on Basic Editing parts 1 and 2. Since the clips have been trimmed, you can drag the bottom left or right handle over top of the adjacent track to make a transition. You can move the transition or cut point by dragging the middle point at the interface of 2 clips - there will be double vertical lines with double-arrow (left and right of the vertical lines) and you can drag this left or right. Definitely do not drag an object somewhere else; the objects have to remain as aligned. To fine-tune the transition, use the Edit Trimmer (shortcut N). Only use the + - buttons and the left and right arrows on the row just below where it says Crossfade. Do not touch any of the other buttons as they will move the objects or the material within an object.
7. What else? I have no problems with multi-cam.

@Glenn-Woiler

As far as I can tell, the problems that had been mentioned in other post seem to have been fixed. No one has said anything different. Please do not post comments about multi-cam not working properly if you don't have the current version and haven't tested it.

John CB

​​​​​​Dear @browj2,

First of all, thanks for your detailed reply. I may not agree in every point yet, but I appreciate that you're putting so much time & effort in trying to help!

Let me answer point by point likewise...

I'm using VPX11 17.0.3.63. You indicate only 17.0, so which version are you actually using?

Also using 17.0.3.63, assuming it's the latest one (didn't check, downloaded by end of november)

I have no problem. Read the manual. Select a camera to start with - the rectangle becomes red. Start playback. When I change cameras, the active camera/video clip is showing in the preview monitor, red rectangle in the Source monitor, and that is the video clip that will be put on track 1 from the point where I clicked on a camera. Click on another camera, rectangle becomes red, video plays in playback monitor, and that one becomes the source and will be put on track 1 from the point where the camera was selected. Etc. There is nothing erratic about this. The video selected does not always show up right away on track 1. Don't worry about that. It will show up. If you stop playback, then the camera last selected will be the one on the track 1 from when it was selected, not a different one. Watch carefully.

Sometimes it turns red, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I see the result instantly, sometimes I don't. Sometimes the timeline is filled to the end with the expected clip, sometimes it isn't. When stopping, I DO have the wrong clip inserted after the additional cut. And that is repeatedly.

For me, this is erratic.

I've read the manual, and also additional tutorials on the web. And I've also "watched carefully". I believe I've understood suffiently by now how it is expected to behave. Maybe I still haven't after all. But, as you stated yourself: "The video selected does not always show up right away on track 1.". What is NOT erratic about this? And this is only one example.

I presume that you have the spacebar set to stop at the location where playback stops, not at the beginning of the clip. See under Program settings.

Maybe (will check the settings). But isn't this expected behaviour (I am referring to the way stop/play works)? What does it have to do with the cutting itself?

"vertical" movie formats (such as 9:16) - fingernails on a chalkboard! Are you serious? Do not take vertical video! If you ha a sive to use it, treat it separately first - export it using the normal landscape settings to an mxv file, and use that in your main video. If you want something to fill in the black part, then do that first when you make the intermediate. What is the size of you monitor? I use a 25" and a 27" inch monitor, with Preview, Source, Project folder on one, Timeline and Media Pool on the other. If you have 1 small screen, of course you're going to have trouble seeing 9 video screens.

The software allows me to do so, and it doesn't give me any sign why I shouldn't. I have lots of raw material in portrait format. I need to arrange them in the final landscape video. Like you, I am on dual monitors. With a more space-saving layout in the source view, this would be usable.

Mine are not blurry.

Mine are ;-). But no point in arguing about what grade of blurriness is "good" or "bad".

You are doing multi-cam; that means normal camera files. You specifically are warned not to use resized or moved video clips. See the warning below. Again, if you need to do this, make an intermediate with section, size, position, rotation, etc., all done and use that. Other videos effects, of course, work and should be done before going into multi-cam.

Of course I know the warning, still don't see the point in this limitation. I've already started experimenting with workarounds like the one you're proposing (will give it another try, thanks for confirming it). But I consider it quite tedious and counter-intuitive, having to keep in mind which kind of adjustments must be applied beforehand and which ones must NOT (see my note about audio-alignment).

My main point here is not to claim a "bug", but about usability and intuitivity (which is one of the main promises of Magix Video Pro X, according to the slogans)

Again, Multi-cam is for doing multi-cam, not effects. If you're done with multi-cam, turn it off and make your transitions on track 1. "All I can do is to MOVE clips over one another, but that will always shift the whole timeline." Not true. You need to learn how to edit. See my videos on Basic Editing parts 1 and 2. Since the clips have been trimmed, you can drag the bottom left or right handle over top of the adjacent track to make a transition. You can move the transition or cut point by dragging the middle point at the interface of 2 clips - there will be double vertical lines with double-arrow (left and right of the vertical lines) and you can drag this left or right. Definitely do not drag an object somewhere else; the objects have to remain as aligned. To fine-tune the transition, use the Edit Trimmer (shortcut N). Only use the + - buttons and the left and right arrows on the row just below where it says Crossfade. Do not touch any of the other buttons as they will move the objects or the material within an object.

Guess you have a point here. My main need is to be sure that I can do CROSSfades even after multicam editing (I don't bother too much if I have to finish the cutting first and do the transitions later). I probably misunderstood functionality here. Will give it another try!

Though I am not particularly happy so far with VPX in terms of usability and intuitivity, I haven't given up completely yet ;-)

So thanks again for your hints and clarifications!

@phonebooth

Hi

I have to echo @browj2's comments, multicam works correctly and without issues on a computer that has sufficient processing power to ensure a smooth playback during selection of the cameras in the Source monitor.

We need more information - your computer specification - see this topic for details of what is required, also include the file type, and resolution of the videos you are adding to the timeline for the multicam work.

John EB

Forum Moderator

@phonebooth

Further to John Baker's comments, I should have added that many users have trouble playing back 1 video clip, especially 4k; trying to play 2 or more video clips at the same time can quickly become problematic unless the computer is quite to extremely powerful, depending on the case. If you also put effects on the clips, then it is highly likely that there will be playback problems, including blurriness. Playback under these conditions is problematic with all nle's that I have looked at; users are always complaining about not getting smooth playback.

Again, the only effects that cannot be used in on clips in multi-cam are those under Effects, View/Animation. None of them.

If you have put other effects on source video clips first, as is recommended, and have a problem with playback for multi-cam, then you should create intermediates of the video clips rendered with all effects.

I expect that you will find that other programs have similar restrictions.

Multi-cam is a special mode to be used only for that purpose, nothing else. It requires power. Do not watch what happens to the timeline with the clips, watch the monitors. The timeline is often lagging in its presentation, but it will catch up.

Like I said, the last camera (clip) selected in the Source Monitor is the one that will show up when you press on stop (spacebar). Pressing on the spacebar does not cause a camera change. Try this carefully. Select a camera, press play, wait a few secondes, select a second camera, wait, select a third, wait a few seconds, press stop (spacebar). The last clip on track 1 will be your third camera clip, right to the end of the clip. The cut point will be where you selected the last camera, not where you stopped. Because there is a lag on the timeline, you probably think that when you pressed stop and then a different clip showed up on the timeline, that something went wrong. It hasn't, it's just catching up.

If you really think that you are getting something different, do a video screen capture to demonstrate and post it.

If the box around your selected camera does change red, and there may be a lag depending on your hardware and video clips (effects, 4k, etc.), and if the camera really does not switch, then you may have a mouse problem. Again, do a video capture to demonstrate.

Just for information, for spacebar behaviour, some users prefer having the playback marker go back to the starting point when stop (spacebar) is pressed. For some reason, in some versions, this was the default behaviour. My settings are as shown below.

If you have this unchecked, then you have to use "K" to stop at the current position, not the spacebar.

As for usability and intuitivity, that is relative. If you've used another video editing program, do not expect VPX to do things the same way. Actually, I find that VPX and MEP are probably among the most intuitive nle's out there. Others require you to drag and drop or import videos and photos into a bin before being able to put them onto the timeline, require you to insert tracks to be able to work (adding titles, overlays), have many different special screens to do what VPX just does on the normal screens, etc. Others have tracks for video only, audio only, composite only; VPX just has tracks. You have to learn how things work, and then you'll find that the work flow is quite straight-forward.

One thing of interest is different windows setups for VPX. You can re-arrange the windows on 2 (or 1) monitors and then save the arrangement under Window, Window Arrangement, Save, give a name. Then you can quickly recall them using F9 for default, F10 for the first arrangement, F11, F12.

There is a lot to learn. One very important point to remember is to right-click to see a menu. Depending on what you are doing, the menu may be different. We have discovered gems in some of these menus that we didn't know existed, even after using the program for years. They are documented, but we never looked or remembered these.

John CB

Dear both @johnebaker and @browj2

As requested, please find a quick overview of my PC specs below. However, I am not sure whether this is the right angle. I am working on a brand new PC which should definitely be "multimedia-ready". So if this SHOULD be the bottleneck, I'd be very very confused!

Nevertheless, I am thankful for your various input. By now, rather than having you dig even deeper, I should give it all a second try to see whether a solution for my issues isn't already hidden somewhere inside this huge pile of tips & tricks :-D

I'll come back in case I get lost again! ;-)

One last thing, just to come up with something positive, for a change.

Speaking of "usability and intuitivity", I can clearly confirm the following points - besides all my grumble. These are features I like BETTER than in my previous tools (like Adobe Premiere Elements):

Others have tracks for video only, audio only, composite only; VPX just has tracks.

True. The track management is definitely way more intuitive than I've known so far.

You can re-arrange the windows [...] save, give a name.

Yep. Already found that quite charming!

One very important point to remember is to right-click to see a menu.

Also acknowledged. Simply clicking through context menues has already provided me, by trial and error, some surprisingly easy-to-use solutions to various problems.

Ok, here I am back with some more info, including a screencast.

But first of all, I want to mention that several of my findings were not clearly reproducible on my end anymore (which is a relief!).

I took @browj2's hints about the "natural" lag in the timeline during multicam-editing very serious, and found them to be true. The display simply isn't in sync with the cutting progress. So, I was in fact mislead by it, and some of my issues have vanished in the haze. This includes the "unintended cut" in the end (a misunderstanding apparently caused by the lag). Futhermore, the observed "bluriness" wasn't there anymore in the shown sample project with landscape only, so it seems to be true only for portrait-format sources (and as they're not recommended, I don't want to get nitpicky about it).

However, what I belive I can still reproduce consistently are the following 2 issues, as demonstrated in the screencast:

• 00:00 - 00:30: Demonstrating my setup (multicam enabled, 3 source tracks, 1 master audio track)
• 00:30 - 01:10:  First cut (from start to stop)
  --> Issue 1: Following my mouse pointer you can see that the timeline is not filled up. It just ends immediately at the stop position. And this is not a display lag.
• 01:10 - end: Second cut (resuming from previous position)
  --> Issue 2: Now here's a gap in the result from the resuming point until the first moment when I selected another cam. And of course, once more, timeline isn't filled.

Is this really the expected behaviour?

If not, can anyone tell me what I am missing here?

@phonebooth

Hi

Thanks for the specs - there is one item that is incomplete and that is the processor, whatever software you are using to get the details it is only reporting and i7 Kaby Lake processor.

As a guess I would suspect that it is an Intel i7-7700K with a HD630 integrated GPU.

I can see an immediate possible cause of the slow mouse responses, wrong clips being selected - if VPX is not using the Intel iGPU then there is no Preview hardware acceleration taking place and sytem responses to the mouse may be slow.

Check that the Intel HD630 is enabled - by default an Nvidia card will disable it when added to a system. See this comment - although it refers to Movie Edit Pro it also applies to VPX.

HTH

John EB

@johnebaker

Thanks for the specs - there is one item that is incomplete and that is the processor, whatever software you are using to get the details it is only reporting and i7 Kaby Lake processor.

Oops... sorry. Didn't notice. Seems that Speccy was playing tricks on me.

This one should be more intuitive though:

I can see an immediate possible cause of the slow mouse responses, wrong clips being selected - if VPX is not using the Intel iGPU then there is no Preview hardware acceleration taking place and sytem responses to the mouse may be slow.

Check that the Intel HD630 is enabled - by default an Nvidia card will disable it when added to a system. See this comment - although it refers to Movie Edit Pro it also applies to VPX.

Thanks, I'll check that out - though I am really wondering: I does not feel to me (at least subjectively) that there's a mouse issue. Mouse movement feels absolutely fine, and I don't get the impression that wrong cams are selected (as stated in my previous post, my "unintended end cut" issue appears to have been a misunderstanding on my side).

I guess my main (and only remaining) concern now is the timeline not filling up / gaps in the timeline after pausing / resuming (as posted in my screencast).

And apart from that, i.e. if that (timeline issue) should be resolveable, I'll be MUCH MUCH happier than initially. My latest attempts have been much more promising already. Seems that I might even start to like it and let go of my grumbling ;-)

@phonebooth

About the video, I see that you have already cut things up, that you have blank spaces on tracks, and different video clips on the same track. Interesting.

As well, you start with the music and no video, so you don't see a camera. This makes it very hard to select a starting camera - there aren't any. Get video right to the start of the audio file so that you can at least select a starting camera. As soon as you select a starting camera, it will be put on track 1. The rectangle will be yellow in the source monitor. Then press play.

I can now see why found things erratic, and I discovered a couple of things.

The first camera selected is the master. It is placed on track 1 to start with. What multi-cam does is insert video clips from others tracks when a camera is selected. What happens is that when you press stop, if the camera last selected is not the master (or maybe even if it is), then a cut is placed, and the master is there for the remainder.

In your case (first playback), as far as I can tell, since there was no starting camera or master, things got tricky. Your first stop point is after the end of the video clip of the first camera selected, thus there is nothing to put on the timeline, except the cut. No master video clip.

In the second playback, no starting camera was selected, so nothing is on the timeline until you select one. The same thing happened when you pressed stop, there was nothing on the timeline after that point because there was nothing there to begin with.

There is nothing wrong with the way that you did it; you just have to understand what is happening.

I'll try to do up a video to illustrate. My computer is way underpowered for this, so things don't run as smoothly, but they still run.

BTW, my preference is to have video and audio on separate tracks. When doing multi-cam, this uses up tracks that are not required, as they are muted. But, that is my preference.

Johh CB

@browj2

About the video, I see that you have already cut things up, that you have blank spaces on tracks, and different video clips on the same track. Interesting.

Yes, exactly! A very good observation!!

Get video right to the start of the audio file so that you can at least select a starting camera. As soon as you select a starting camera, it will be put on track 1. The rectangle will be yellow in the source monitor. Then press play.

[...]

The first camera selected is the master. [...] and the master is there for the remainder.

This explains a lot. I believe now that it's simply the gaps in the source tracks which the software somehow doesn't "expect".

It matches well with another observation I made in the meantime with a second project: The first clip of the starting cam there starts in sync with the music. And, as predicted (by you), the "filling up" there works fine. Though it deosn't really solve my complete problem, as described further below.

I'll try to translate it into simple rules - do you think this is correct?

1. The camera I choose as the starting cam "spans up" the resulting timeline.
2. Therfore, if I want to get a complete track, it must always be a source clip that extends to the full range of the timeline
3. At least the starting cam's track must not have any gaps.

To go even beyond: I have the impression that multicam implicitely expects all of source tracks to be neatless and of the same length!

I believe that this implicit aspect of the multicam concept is somewhat crucial! One should be aware of it before starting, even before starting to record the source tracks. I'd have ended up much happier if I'd learned it beforehand from the docs and tutorials (meant as a constructive suggestion, of course).

Because the downside for me now is that I can't easily fix it :( I don't have practically any complete track. My raw material was produced in fragments, because I wasn't aware of that limitation at all (and nothing in the manual told me about it).

It forces me to record at least on more "dummy" clip extending to the full timeline, and then use this as the "master cam". I can cope with that, I suppose ;-). Though I don't really like it, because - apart from the additional work - that dummy will contain lots of unusable parts (only to be overridden by multicam cuts) and thus "waste" a track.

Nevertheless, I am glad to understand now what was happening all the time!