Smart Rendering

jak.willis wrote on 03/12/2018, 20:55

I am a bit confused with the smart rendering option in MEP. Every time I check to see if smart rendering is possible it tells me that it is able to smart render all files in the arrangement, however, when it comes to it, it doesn't smart render and instead re-encodes the files. Why does this happen and why would it say it can smart render but then not smart render?

Comments

CubeAce wrote on 03/12/2018, 22:54

Here is an explanation of smart rendering is and what it does.

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/premiere-pro/using/smart-rendering.html

Are your source files compatible?

 

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Scenestealer wrote on 03/12/2018, 23:07

Hi jak

There has been quite a lot of discussion on this topic over the years. Have you used the search function in the forum? Entering "Smart Rendering" brings up 9 pages of references dating back to 2007.....but you may be able to narrow down the search and find some answers. IIRC there was some discussion on what works and what doesn't in the last year.

 

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jak.willis wrote on 04/12/2018, 00:38

Here is an explanation of smart rendering is and what it does.

https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/premiere-pro/using/smart-rendering.html

Are your source files compatible?

 

Thank you for the link.

Yes, I’m assuming they’re compatible, otherwise why would it say it is able to smart render the files?

CubeAce wrote on 04/12/2018, 18:46

@jak.willis

Smart rendering in MEP (or any other video editor) will only work if the project only uses butt joins. No cross fades or effects except when using the AVCHD codec.

From the pdf manual.


Page 338 (refering only to MPEG 2 files)

Smart Copy: If this option is activated, unedited MPEG 2 material with hard cuts is
transferred without changes. This drastically accelerates the encoding process. The
transfer always takes place on the GOP borders is not frame-precise.

Page 341 (Refering only to MPEG 4 Files)


Smart Copy: If this option is activated, unedited AVCHD material with hard cuts is
transferred without changes. This drastically accelerates the encoding process. The
transfer always takes place on the GOP borders is not frame-precise.

Page 346 (refering only to MPEG-4 H.264 files)

Smart Render and Smart Copy
Smart Render lowers the demand on the encoder for AVCHD material. In the
production of AVCHD files, only those parts of the movie that were changed in the
program (e.g. by video cleaning or effects) are re-encoded. Please note: The AVCHD
files contained in the movie must have the same format, i.e. the bit rates (variable or
constant), audio formats, image resolutions and video formats must match.
The Smart Rendering special mode „Smart Copy“ enables AVCHD material to be
transferred without having to encode it for the target medium which greatly increases
the encoding speed. The video material cannot appear to have been altered in any
way, only hard cuts (without fades) are permitted. These won't be executed precisely
to the frame, but rather take place at the next GOP borders. For this reason, cuts
should be set somewhat more generously.

 

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jak.willis wrote on 04/12/2018, 20:34

@jak.willis

Smart rendering in MEP (or any other video editor) will only work if the project only uses butt joins. No cross fades or effects except when using the AVCHD codec.

From the pdf manual.


Page 338 (refering only to MPEG 2 files)

Smart Copy: If this option is activated, unedited MPEG 2 material with hard cuts is
transferred without changes. This drastically accelerates the encoding process. The
transfer always takes place on the GOP borders is not frame-precise.

Page 341 (Refering only to MPEG 4 Files)


Smart Copy: If this option is activated, unedited AVCHD material with hard cuts is
transferred without changes. This drastically accelerates the encoding process. The
transfer always takes place on the GOP borders is not frame-precise.

Page 346 (refering only to MPEG-4 H.264 files)

Smart Render and Smart Copy
Smart Render lowers the demand on the encoder for AVCHD material. In the
production of AVCHD files, only those parts of the movie that were changed in the
program (e.g. by video cleaning or effects) are re-encoded. Please note: The AVCHD
files contained in the movie must have the same format, i.e. the bit rates (variable or
constant), audio formats, image resolutions and video formats must match.
The Smart Rendering special mode „Smart Copy“ enables AVCHD material to be
transferred without having to encode it for the target medium which greatly increases
the encoding speed. The video material cannot appear to have been altered in any
way, only hard cuts (without fades) are permitted. These won't be executed precisely
to the frame, but rather take place at the next GOP borders. For this reason, cuts
should be set somewhat more generously.

 

Hello,

Thank you for your input there.

So, when you start the encoding process and smart rendering is active, will it have the words “smart rendering” under the progress bar to let you know that it is definitely smart rendering the files? Or will it still just say “encoding” like normal?

CubeAce wrote on 04/12/2018, 23:11

@jak.willis

Normally the program just won't accept any other commands until it finishes. The bits it renders shows as a thin bar running under the timeline/frame bar. Not all of the files have to be rendered. Normally there is one file that is used as the master template and is not rendered as the other files that need rendering do not comply with the master file used. However, I have only used this with AVCHD files. It may differ using other codecs. I don't know.

Last changed by CubeAce on 04/12/2018, 23:12, changed a total of 2 times.

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jak.willis wrote on 04/12/2018, 23:51

@jak.willis

Normally the program just won't accept any other commands until it finishes. The bits it renders shows as a thin bar running under the timeline/frame bar. Not all of the files have to be rendered. Normally there is one file that is used as the master template and is not rendered as the other files that need rendering do not comply with the master file used. However, I have only used this with AVCHD files. It may differ using other codecs. I don't know.

Yeah, so if it was smart rendering then would it still say “encoding”?

CubeAce wrote on 05/12/2018, 01:43

@jak.willis

Because it is still encoding the files.

You have edited your original, the resulting clips need stitching back together for exporting as a single file.

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jak.willis wrote on 05/12/2018, 05:44

@jak.willis

Because it is still encoding the files.

You have edited your original, the resulting clips need stitching back together for exporting as a single file.

Do you mean it still has to encode the files even if they’re being smart rendered/smart copied?

CubeAce wrote on 05/12/2018, 09:39

@jak.willis

I'm not a software engineer but look at a project file's size when you save it as a project and the size of a file when it's been exported. How do you explain the file size difference even taking into account the instruction sets for the editing taking place? Editors are in the main, non-destructive. Meaning no part of the original files go missing. You are editing code, not a physical product. That means instructions have to be given to skip parts of the timeline and the information of where one clip ends and then told where the next bit sits within the timeline. That at least would need re-coding, including how to join to the next bit. At best it's re-coding the joins and endpoint of the file.

But please re-read the information I gave you above from the manual. It clearly states it is re-encoding. It's just not specific as to which bits, but judging by the time it takes I would guess more than the just the joins.

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Scenestealer wrote on 06/12/2018, 03:41

@jak.willis

This post from March 2018 details the state of it at the moment:-https://www.magix.info/uk/forum/does-video-pro-x-still-smart-render--1203324/#ca1383002.

There is another question around the same time also.

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jak.willis wrote on 06/12/2018, 07:03

Hi,

I took a look at the post you linked but there was so much to read and couldn’t quite take it all in. Do you know why it is that the smartrender info box tells me that it is possible to smart render all files in the timeline but then ends up not smart rendering? I’m confused as to why it is that it would say it can do something but then end up not doing it.

Scenestealer wrote on 06/12/2018, 10:41

It was inconclusive amongst the respondents as to why it did not always do what it said it was going to. In the end some of us could not justify the use of it for the little gain it brought to our requirements.

@CubeAce

Smart rendering in MEP (or any other video editor) will only work if the project only uses butt joins. No cross fades or effects except when using the AVCHD codec.

No, That is Smart Copy, Smart Render should render up to the start of the cross fade.

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CubeAce wrote on 06/12/2018, 11:27

@Scenestealer

Then the 2019 pdf manual is very confusing. I thought I had read through the variations.

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jak.willis wrote on 07/01/2019, 23:10

I am still having a bit of trouble with Smart Render.

In the export/burn menu in MEP, if you are going to use Smart Render, then do the rest of the settings need to be touched? (i.e. resolution, framerate, bitrate).

johnebaker wrote on 08/01/2019, 21:41

@jak.willis

. . . . I am still having a bit of trouble with Smart Render. . . .

IMHO I would not worry about Smart Render (SR) or Smart Copy (SC).

I work exclusively with AVCHD and MPEG 4 video formats only at 1920x 1080 (Full HD) and 3840 x 2160 (4K) and have never had an occasion to use SR and/or SC.

In one of the many discussions on SR?SC, as Peter has mentioned, several users including Peter and myself spent a lot of time and effort in testing the SR/SC options and came to the conclusion that SR/SC requires a very narrowly defined set of conditions for it to work (occasionally).

IMO the gains are not significant enough to worry about for file exporting, and, in my experience, creating a project which meets all the requirements has never been achieved.

If you are burning to disc then SC/SR is virtually irrelevant - there are strict standardised parameter requirements for both DVD and BD which would require rendering to take place.

HTH

John EB

Lateral thinking can get things done!

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jak.willis wrote on 08/01/2019, 22:45

@jak.willis

. . . . I am still having a bit of trouble with Smart Render. . . .

IMHO I would not worry about Smart Render (SR) or Smart Copy (SC).

I work exclusively with AVCHD and MPEG 4 video formats only at 1920x 1080 (Full HD) and 3840 x 2160 (4K) and have never had an occasion to use SR and/or SC.

In one of the many discussions on SR?SC, as Peter has mentioned, several users including Peter and myself spent a lot of time and effort in testing the SR/SC options and came to the conclusion that SR/SC requires a very narrowly defined set of conditions for it to work (occasionally).

IMO the gains are not significant enough to worry about for file exporting, and, in my experience, creating a project which meets all the requirements has never been achieved.

If you are burning to disc then SC/SR is virtually irrelevant - there are strict standardised parameter requirements for both DVD and BD which would require rendering to take place.

HTH

John EB

Hello,

Okay, so putting smart rendering aside, is it actually not at all possible to make an exact replica of a DVD disc? Lately I have taken advice from another member of the forum who recommended downloading the MainConcept MPEG-2 codec and click on "From file", to match a particular file's attributes to the export settings. Will doing it this way mean I will get an exact replica (quality-wise) of the original source file?

johnebaker wrote on 09/01/2019, 12:02

@jak.willis

Hi

. . . . another member of the forum who recommended downloading the MainConcept MPEG-2 codec . . . .

Personally I have found the Intel HD codec to be better and faster than the MainConcept (MC) codec which gives me issues when using Hardware Acceleration ie. it goes through all the motions of rendering, however ends up with 0 byte files ie. empty - in my case this is both on my old PC and laptop (HD4600 iGPU) and my new PC (UHD 630 iGPU).

If you have read this comment you will see that I recommend adding overall sharpening to video - it does improve the perceived quality of playback especially on DVD playback. I use this with every export or burn, however it mean a total re-render, however, IMO, it is worth it.

HTH

John EB

 

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 09/01/2019, 12:03, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP Pro Premium, Video Pro X4, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.