@jak.willis

Hi Jak.

The best bet is to use the same headphones but even then there is no guarantee the sound will be exactly the same due to different power deliveries and frequency responses from different amplifiers. Some amplifiers may even have frequency response curves built in. Also before you use an editing package make sure any windows settings are neutral. That the computers internal mixer is not connected to any effects or tone controls of any kind.

You don't want anything in the computers audio chain that could influence what you hear through your headphones on the computer.

Just as with video monitors and video, sound can be coloured by the equipment itself and can change dependent on the equipment used.

Ray.

Hello Ray, thank you for your response.

So what do you think happens in the case of professional productions? For instance, in the Soap Operas you can usually hear all of the different ambient sounds in the background such as traffic, birds, trains passing, etc. How can the person doing the mixing be sure that those effects will sound the way they want them to sound on the viewer’s speakers and/or headphones?

@jak.willis

Hi,

Well, audio is a very complex subject. If you take a look at what the pros do, they use several types of speakers and headphones knowing that the listener may be using a cell phone, cell phone with headphones - cheap to expensive, computer audio with built in speakers or computer sound systems from cheap to expensive, TV, TV with sound bar, with sound system, etc. They also use different studio speaker systems in a sound conditioned room, with speakers set up for optimal listening. Then, they try to do the best that they can for most users.

Most of us don't have that luxury or the talent and experience, so we just try to do the best that we can with what we have. Try using both of your sets of headphones plus output to a stereo system of some kind.

As for hearing the background or any particular audio, that is what mixing is all about.

I suggest that you search in this forum for my long thread on using YouLean Loudness Meter2. It doesn't do anything, just gives you output. You use the tools in MEP to adjust audio - gain, volume curve, compression, noise reduction, EQ, etc. I use YouLean to help me balance the audio tracks and the overall sound so that I keep within the limits required for YouTube (about -13 or -14 LUFS), no distortion and to keep an even perceived volume throughout. Etc.

John CB

@jak.willis

Hi Jack.

They can't, and believe me some sounds are not reproduced on some sets but the sound is mixed on Studio monitors not headphones in as neutral a sound environment as possible.

Studio control rooms tend not to have reflective walls, floors or ceilings. They are made as acoustically 'dead' as possible so as to monitor only the recordings.

How it is mixed or even recorded depends on the type of production. If a sound that is needed doesn't come out in the recording at the time it is added in post production. Ambience can be matched using impulse reverb units that will listen to the ambience of the original recording and replicate it. If a sound ruins a take on location and not noticed at the time of the take (such as sirens or aircraft sounds in a historical drama) it will be completely re-recorded in the studio bit by bit. Sometimes the sound track is re-recorded anyway for foreign language sales. Sometimes a sound is re-recorded because the source doesn't make the sound the viewer expects to hear, doesn't actually exist in nature, or the producer wants a different sound.

If I watch something on a TV set with headphones I often do not hear as much as sitting in my listening room over studio monitors playing the same program via the internet, dependent on the source of the files being watched.

If you go via the optical out of a TV into a good DAC you may get closer to that experience.

As far as I'm aware TV companies use SRS 3D (stereo source transferred into an expanded sound stage) and SRS TruSurround (up to 7.1 true speaker outputs.) at present to expand the stereo / surround image for broadcast which may not be reproduced that accurately over headphones as there is no cross talk from one transceiver to the other. In other words the right ear never receives audio from the left speaker and vice versa.

In the days of analog broadcast we used to have several speaker types from very cheap transistor radio speakers all the way upwards to test the mixes for clarity, reproduction of problem frequencies, and most importantly phase testing, but this can be done electronically now and with the disappearance of tape heads the need for phase testing beyond polarity of inputs is no longer required.

In my experience whatever you use to master on will never be exactly reproduced on another system unless the system reaches a required minimum standard such as the LucasFilm THX standard for film theaters. I'm not sure if broadcasters or TV manufacturers have got that far yet.

Ray.

@jak.willis

Hi,

Well, audio is a very complex subject. If you take a look at what the pros do, they use several types of speakers and headphones knowing that the listener may be using a cell phone, cell phone with headphones - cheap to expensive, computer audio with built in speakers or computer sound systems from cheap to expensive, TV, TV with sound bar, with sound system, etc. They also use different studio speaker systems in a sound conditioned room, with speakers set up for optimal listening. Then, they try to do the best that they can for most users.

Most of us don't have that luxury or the talent and experience, so we just try to do the best that we can with what we have. Try using both of your sets of headphones plus output to a stereo system of some kind.

As for hearing the background or any particular audio, that is what mixing is all about.

I suggest that you search in this forum for my long thread on using YouLean Loudness Meter2. It doesn't do anything, just gives you output. You use the tools in MEP to adjust audio - gain, volume curve, compression, noise reduction, EQ, etc. I use YouLean to help me balance the audio tracks and the overall sound so that I keep within the limits required for YouTube (about -13 or -14 LUFS), no distortion and to keep an even perceived volume throughout. Etc.

John CB

Hello,

Yes, I see what you're saying. So really the best thing to do would be to test how the audio mix sounds on a range of different audio equipment? Obviously I don't have access to lots of different equipment but I'm talking about an ideal world.

@jak.willis

Hi Jack.

They can't, and believe me some sounds are not reproduced on some sets but the sound is mixed on Studio monitors not headphones in as neutral a sound environment as possible.

Studio control rooms tend not to have reflective walls, floors or ceilings. They are made as acoustically 'dead' as possible so as to monitor only the recordings.

How it is mixed or even recorded depends on the type of production. If a sound that is needed doesn't come out in the recording at the time it is added in post production. Ambience can be matched using impulse reverb units that will listen to the ambience of the original recording and replicate it. If a sound ruins a take on location and not noticed at the time of the take (such as sirens or aircraft sounds in a historical drama) it will be completely re-recorded in the studio bit by bit. Sometimes the sound track is re-recorded anyway for foreign language sales. Sometimes a sound is re-recorded because the source doesn't make the sound the viewer expects to hear, doesn't actually exist in nature, or the producer wants a different sound.

If I watch something on a TV set with headphones I often do not hear as much as sitting in my listening room over studio monitors playing the same program via the internet, dependent on the source of the files being watched.

If you go via the optical out of a TV into a good DAC you may get closer to that experience.

As far as I'm aware TV companies use SRS 3D (stereo source transferred into an expanded sound stage) and SRS TruSurround (up to 7.1 true speaker outputs.) at present to expand the stereo / surround image for broadcast which may not be reproduced that accurately over headphones as there is no cross talk from one transceiver to the other. In other words the right ear never receives audio from the left speaker and vice versa.

In the days of analog broadcast we used to have several speaker types from very cheap transistor radio speakers all the way upwards to test the mixes for clarity, reproduction of problem frequencies, and most importantly phase testing, but this can be done electronically now and with the disappearance of tape heads the need for phase testing beyond polarity of inputs is no longer required.

In my experience whatever you use to master on will never be exactly reproduced on another system unless the system reaches a required minimum standard such as the LucasFilm THX standard for film theaters. I'm not sure if broadcasters or TV manufacturers have got that far yet.

Ray.

Hi, yes, because the other thing I've noticed is that hard panned sounds can sound quite distracting and unrealistic when listening with headphones. Would normalizing the whole mix at the mastering stage help at all?

@jak.willis

Hi,

Would normalizing the whole mix at the mastering stage help at all?

How would you do that? Mixdown the audio and normalize?

You first have to understand what normalizing does. See the definition in the manual. Normalizing the project file would change the gain of the whole audio to the loudest sample of the entire project. That does not resolve parts that are too soft. Normalizing each object would give you parts that are too loud. You have to mix first to get the volume of each part to be what you want.

I have 3 video clips of me walking in the woods and you can hear the traffic in the background. In the first clip, I call the dog, thus the loudest part is my voice. In another, there is a slightly louder part than in the third clip. If I normalize each clip, the volume of 2 of them are greatly increased and the one with my voice slightly increased. Playing back, the background in the first clip is normal, but in the other 2 it is far too loud. I went back and adjusted the gain of the 2 objects that were too loud to be the same as the first clip. So, normalizing must be used intelligently.

Also, read through this thread to understand a bit more about analysing and adjusting the volume. And, I didn't touch on other things, like compression and EQ.

John CB