Burning Dual Layer DVD revelation

discburn wrote on 12/21/2017, 6:49 AM

With Video Pro X6, just burned a Dual Layer DVD (Ritek Arita +R DL) on Plextor Burner.

Plays back perfectly. Great!

Quite by accident, I noticed that the total Disc Image file size is only 4.37GB. Before burning, VPX6 said it would be 6453MB, because I want a bit rate of 9308kbps to keep up the quality (my normal bit rate when burning to DVD). VPX6 also said I would only get about 1 hour at that bitrate. My programme is 1 hour 30 minutes. Hence the need for Dual Layer.

So, I’ll get 6.453GB onto the Dual Layer (8152MB) with great quality! And, I’ve done this before in Magix (can’t remember which version of MEP or VPX).

Imagine my surprise at the resultant small file size of 4.37GB!

Using Media Info, I examine the VOB files...

Variable Overall of 5,986kbps, 7,000kbps, 7,022kbps, 7,792kbps and 8069kbps. All maxing at 9, 012kbps.

When I think about it, much of the Video was actually still images from a Power Point Presentation. So, I guess VPX simply didn't need to use all of the high bit rate for those and I ended up with a video that will fit on a standard DVD! Yes, and how would it know that before burning?

Can anyone confirm the above

Comments

emmrecs wrote on 12/21/2017, 9:08 AM

@discburn

Hi. I have never owned or used VPX 6 but I quite regularly export projects that require a D/L DVD by first having VPX (9) create an Image File, which it does by first creating all the .vob etc. files required in a folder and then creating the .iso image file. When first accessing the burn screen VPX says the resulting files will be too big and asks if I wish to split the project. I select the Ignore option and the export proceeds as normal. Sometimes I have found it necessary to insert a blank D/L DVD to one of my burners, in order to convince VPX that the resulting files will not be too big, but then switching the dropdown back to Image File before beginning the actual export.

For the actual burning, having had a D/L disc burned in MEP/VPX rejected as unplayable by a client some years ago, I tend to now always use ImgBurn to create the D/L disc from the folder of files, rather than the Image file. It is a slightly pernickety program in that if it cannot find a clear point (e.g. a chapter point) where the layer break can occur, it tends to throw a wobbly and suggest your project is doomed to failure! The free utility VobBlanker enables the creation of a suitable layer break by "editing" of an appropriate vob file.

The Disc Image I always retain (it is simply a zipped file which any unzip utility can recreate all the individual files); ImgBurn seems to work better from those unzipped files than from the zipped .iso. I do not generally retain the folder of .vobs, .ifo files etc.

HTH

Jeff

EDIT, to add: the procedure to have VPX/MEP burn a Disc Image, either single or dual layer is simply to select Disc Image on that dropdown screen where one can select either any burner in the computer.

discburn wrote on 12/21/2017, 10:29 AM

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your in-depth and very helpful information!

Interestingly, my own situation took an unusual twist! I also sometimes use ImgBurn, and burn DVD discs from Files and Folders. So, when I put in a blank DL DVD, ImgBurn said the data will fit on a standard DVD. So, why waste a DL?

After a successful burn, I played the DVD back to find it only had 15 chapters instead of 22. And yet it was a full disc with all VOBs in place!

So I had a look at the Disc Image folder of my Magix project. There I saw a file of only 28kb called a VOB file, situated between the other VOBs. Yes, you guessed it! This file was telling the expected DL DVD where the split would be. Magix had created it. But it made my standard DVD end after only 15 chapters.

What to do? No disc of any type in the burner; then, as you said above: 'When first accessing the burn screen VPX says the resulting files will be too big and asks if I wish to split the project. I select the Ignore option and the export proceeds as normal.'

So, no split point was created. ImgBurn was able to burn the new Files and Folders onto DVD with everything nicely in place.

You can’t know enough, can you? I’m going try the image-burning you mention above.

Thanks again!

Seamus

johnebaker wrote on 12/21/2017, 11:43 AM

. . . . ImgBurn said the data will fit on a standard DVD. So, why waste a DL? After a successful burn, I played the DVD back to find it only had 15 chapters instead of 22. And yet it was a full disc with all VOBs in place! . . . .

ImgBurn does not know what to do with DL project files , ie VOB, IFOs etc that are already pre-built where there is an existing split in the layer - it has to be specifically told where the spilt is and to build the DVD - see here for how to do this.

HTH

John EB

discburn wrote on 12/21/2017, 1:45 PM

Thanks for that, John.

I'm not getting a link with the 'here' for 'see here for how to do this'.

Regards,

Seamus

emmrecs wrote on 12/21/2017, 1:58 PM

Thanks for that, John.

I'm not getting a link with the 'here' for 'see here for how to do this'.

Regards,

Seamus

Agreed. I'm not sure why the link isn't working. I think John may need to correct it.

johnebaker wrote on 12/21/2017, 2:47 PM

The link should point to

https://www.aimersoft.com/how-to-burn/imgburn-dual-layer.html

copy and paste this into your browser address bar.

It looks like the previous issue with external links not displaying is abck again.

HTH

John EB

discburn wrote on 12/21/2017, 4:08 PM

That's working grand. Thanks John!

Seamus

Recycler wrote on 4/20/2018, 11:49 AM

@johneb

John, the aimersoft article linked above which describes how to use ImgBurn to write to dual layer DVDs is based on using a VIDEO_TS folder of transport stream material, but I cannot for the life of me see how to get that format out of VPX (latest version, on 64 bit Win 10 Home).

I've just started exploring these dual layer things, and I must be missing a trick! I am sitting with a nice 6.5 GB iso which VPX has made, but am wondering how to proceed to get this onto the DL disc.

Please can you advise? Thank you - Mike -

johnebaker wrote on 4/20/2018, 12:44 PM

Hi Mike

. . . . I am sitting with a nice 6.5 GB iso which VPX has made, but am wondering how to proceed to get this onto the DL disc. . . . .

AFAIK you cannot burn a DL ISO direct to disc with out some support files, ie .mdf and .mds or .bin and .cue files which tell the burning program the layout of the disc.

However you should have the Video_TS folder of the ISO, in the Disc Images location specified in the VPX settings, to burn to DL disc.

HTH

John EB

emmrecs wrote on 4/20/2018, 2:05 PM

Hi Mike.

Just to add to what John has written (if you cannot find the VIDEO_TS folder):

The .iso file you have is essentially a zipped file containing ALL the constituent files needed for the DVD. If you unzip it to a folder of your choice, with something like WinZip or the free 7-Zip, my personal choice, it will create "free-standing" copies of all those files/folders, including the needed Video_TS, which you can "open" in ImgBurn and produce your disc.

HTH

Jeff

Recycler wrote on 4/21/2018, 5:20 AM

@johnebaker, @emmrecs

Many thanks both. VIDEO_TS found, double layer DVD burnt - happy! - Mike -

emmrecs wrote on 4/21/2018, 5:33 AM

Hi Mike.

Thanks for the update. Glad you have your DVD!

Jeff

johnebaker wrote on 4/21/2018, 7:01 AM

Hi Mike

. . . . Thanks for the update. Glad you have your DVD! . . . .

Like wise, now does this method work with BD DL discs????

John EB

Recycler wrote on 4/21/2018, 8:41 AM

Like wise, now does this method work with BD DL discs????

HeeHee! I've no idea, but that particular problem doesn't bother me (yet); the people I make discs for only have old steam-powered DVD players, or PCs with "ordinary" DVD drives in them.

I'm trying to encourage the latter category to try HEVC recordings, and am just wondering if I can extend the max size of an H.265 from the standard 4-ish GB of a DVD towards the 8-ish GB of a DL DVD. Or does the layer change 'mechanism' rely on the DVD protocol or disc filing system?

Any experience, anyone? I feel a practical experiment coming on.....

- Mike -

johnebaker wrote on 4/21/2018, 11:48 AM

Hi Mike

. . . . if I can extend the max size of an H.265 from the standard 4-ish GB of a DVD towards the 8-ish GB of a DL DVD . . . .

In my experience, do not go above 7.5GB it may not fit on the disc, however it does depend on the 'steam' powered DVD players supporting DL discs and HEVC decoding.

Layer change is usually determined by how many bad sectors are found on the disc, such that a complete data block can be written on a layer before changing to the 2nd layer. This is one of the reasons why it is best to let the burning program determine where the layer break is.

HTH

John EB

Recycler wrote on 4/21/2018, 12:38 PM

John:

Thanks for the advice - you may have saved a number of blanks turning into coasters! - Mike -