HEVC Scene Transitions on Apple Devices-MEP 2020

AAProds wrote on 1/29/2021, 4:03 AM

As I mentioned on another topic, I was stoked when I found that HEVC gave really reduced file sizes for the same visual quality compared to MPEG 4. My enthusiasm came down to earth with a crash when I played the file on a ipad and iphone. The issue is really bad transitions (on the TV, they were great, really smooth). I've tried a few things: upped the bitrate (no effect), changed the framerate (no effect), fiddled with some of the HEVC video encoder settings, all to no avail. The equivalent MPEG-4 transition runs smoothly on the ipad/iphone.

To rub salt into the wound, I ran a high bitrate MPEG-4 through VideoRedo and it produced a perfect HEVC file (and at around 4 times faster than MEP's HEVC export).

So, does anybody have any ideas on the poor HEVC transitions on Apple thingees?

I've attached a video showing the effect; it is simply 2 JPGs with a 10-frame fade, taken by my phone of my ipad. An "agricultural" method but one which accurately reflects what I see! 😊

Comments

CubeAce wrote on 1/29/2021, 5:15 AM

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn.

Using HEVC is much more processor intensive than using MP4 which is why a few video cameras do not use HEVC encoding.

So my guess would be you are maxing out some part of the playback appliances and they can't keep up with the required streaming rate to give a smooth visual.

As an experiment, instead of upping the bit rate, try lowering it and see if the transition is smoother even if the picture quality itself is less.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 1/29/2021, 5:34 AM

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn

Did you use MediaInfo to compare the HEVC video that runs smoothly compared to the glitchy one?

. . . . To rub salt into the wound, I ran a high bitrate MPEG-4 through VideoRedo and it produced a perfect HEVC file (and at around 4 times faster than MEP's HEVC export). . . . .

It would - all it has to do is to re-encode an existing video, MEP is having to assemble everything, frames, transitions etc. by analogy the comparison is the same as painting a preassembled model, and having to build it first before you can paint it.

John EB

AAProds wrote on 1/29/2021, 6:29 AM

@CubeAce

So my guess would be you are maxing out some part of the playback appliances and they can't keep up with the required streaming rate to give a smooth visual.

Ray, the VideoRedo HEVC file ran perfectly on the ipad. The MEP HEVC file, as you can see, has the bad Transition. I tried 1000kbps and 8000kbps. I doubt whether those bitrates would upset an Apple.

@johnebaker

Did you use MediaInfo to compare the HEVC video that runs smoothly compared to the glitchy one?

John, The Videoredo file is on the left, the MEP file is on the right:

MEP is having to assemble everything, frames, transitions etc. by analogy the comparison is the same as painting a preassembled model, and having to build it first before you can paint it.

Fair call. Does that apply to flat-packs though? 😉

I'll do a further test on the rendering speeds.

If someone could have a crack at this, I'd be grateful. It only needs to be two images with a 10-frame cross-fade transition. If you can't play it on an Apple device, you could post it here and I will try it on my ipad.

I'm just trying to establish a reliable workflow so I can get on achieving something as opposed to continually experimenting and failing. If I need to use VRD for the final HEVC render, then so be it, but I would obviously rather just use MEP. If I know MEP can't do it, I can move on with the two-step workflow.

CubeAce wrote on 1/29/2021, 6:40 AM

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn.

I can see the left hand side data file is using a much lower bit rate than the right hand side one. Much lower. The file size is almost half.

I can't help you out with the second part as I don't own any Apple products.

AAProds wrote on 1/29/2021, 7:08 AM

@CubeAce

Ray, yes, I tried the two bitrates; no difference to the wobbly transition. No worries on the lack of Apples; thanks anyway. I am still amazed at the quality of the HEVC files: I have the VideoRedo version down to 500kbps and it still looks great even on the big TV. I should be able to put out this 11 minute slideshow in around 55mb. Incredible.

@johnebaker

I'll do a further test on the rendering speeds.

John, I just did a 60 second file HEVC render using the same (prerendered) MP4: MEP took 12min 45sec, VideoRedo took 3min 55sec. The MEP transitions were messed up and the VRD transitions were smooth.

Cheers, Al

johnebaker wrote on 1/29/2021, 7:24 AM

Hi Alwyn

Try this short clip on your iPhone/iPad.

I cannot test on my iPhone as it went to the skip, works fine on my Samsung phone.

John EB

browj2 wrote on 1/29/2021, 7:34 AM

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn,

My enthusiasm came down to earth with a crash when I played the file on a ipad and iphone. The issue is really bad transitions (on the TV, they were great, really smooth).

I think I see where the problem lies. 😁

Don't get me started.

John CB

AAProds wrote on 1/29/2021, 7:38 AM

@johnebaker

Very smooth Quokka there John! Whaddya do?

johnebaker wrote on 1/29/2021, 7:41 AM

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . I think I see where the problem lies. 😁 Don't get me started. . . . . .

Enough said 😂 - I think this may be the same reason why mine went to the skip, I will never have one again!

John EB

AAProds wrote on 1/29/2021, 7:52 AM

@johnebaker @browj2

I think I need to explain myself: I've only got this ipad because it was a hand-me-down from my Dad; he was going on a cruise so I bought it for him. Then I tried it, and promptly bought him a Galaxy Tab S2! Personally, I hate the ithings. Anyway, my target audience is millennial and most have iphones, so it is fortuitous that I tried it on the ipad before sending it out.

JohnEB, I notice only 2 differences in the mediainfo for our two files: yours has these two extra lines in the video section:

Standard : Component

Color range : Limited

Are they the dealbreakers for me?

johnebaker wrote on 1/29/2021, 11:54 AM

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn

. . . . I hate the ithings . . . .

Welcome to the club - only a few members so we are pretty exclusive. 😁

. . . . Are they the dealbreakers for me? . . . .

No - the difference may be due to the version of MediaInfo - I am on the latest 20.09 which does appear to have some extra lines of data for some video formats.

John EB

terrypin wrote on 1/29/2021, 1:51 PM

@AAProds @johnebaker @browj2 @CubeAce

Hi Alwyn,

I don't have the HEVC codec (and don't need to buy it) so can't try to reproduce your issue.

But I confirm that John EB's video plays fine on my iPad and iPhone.

Terry

AAProds wrote on 1/29/2021, 4:47 PM

@terrypin

Thanks Terry.

@johnebaker

I am on Mediainfo 20.09.

Could you try this HEVC render on your MEP 2020 version (unfortunately, I don't have the latest patch, for obvious reasons...)?

This is my export screen:

Thanks, Al

johnebaker wrote on 1/30/2021, 6:39 AM

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn

I do not have MEP 2020 installed - the clip I uploaded to Dropbox was done with MEP 2021 and the same settings as you posted above.

Edited: I cannot do one in an earlier version (2016) of MEP as the HEVC codec is not available for that version.

John EB

AAProds wrote on 1/30/2021, 8:39 PM

@johnebaker

Thanks John, I see now you don't have 2020 in your signature.

As it turns out, it is much quicker for me to render a HQ MP4, then re-render that to HEVC in VideoRedo (albeit a two-step process).

Anybody else out there with MEP 2020 who'd like to try? 😉

Cheers, Al