How can I create a movie with the full sound (5.1 surround) and video (full HD 25 FPS) quality of the original m2ts files?

Hobbe51 wrote on 8/9/2014, 1:53 AM

Hi!

I use a Sony HDR-SR11E video camera, and the exported *.m2ts files have a high quality of full HD video and 5.1 surround sound.

When I try to edit a movie based on these files I can't seem to get the settings good enough to get the same full quality in the movie as in the original files.

The exported files have an FPS of 25 with bit-rates around 17000 kbps, 6 channels of 48 kHz audio.

I want to export a video to a file (*.m2ts) with the same quality, but the quality is lower. It looks like the FPS is lower than 25, so the over-all impression is that the movie is a bit 'shaiky'.

Also, in the process of adjusting the video quality, I suddenly lost the sound.

I use MAGIX Movie Edit Pro 2014 Plus Version 13.0.3.14 (UDC2).

I have a 64-bit computer with the following specs:

32 GBytes of RAM

1 TB SSD system disk

Movies stored on a 3 TB 'normal' disk (not SSD)

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 video card

Intel Core i5-3550 CPU @ 3.3GHz and 3.7 GHz

And I am running running Windows 8.1 Pro.

So, my question is, can anybody help me with the movie export settings, or explain why I cannot get a better quality?

Br, Hobbe

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 8/9/2014, 3:10 AM

Hi

. . . . but the quality is lower. It looks like the FPS is lower than 25, so the over-all impression is that the movie is a bit 'shaiky'. . . . .

That will only happen if you have change the export setting frame rate!

I suspect the issue is that you are changing the field type from Interlaced to Progressive or vice versa - if you do this the video will appear to be 'shaky' particularly on panning shots or where there is movement across the screen.

. . . . Also, in the process of adjusting the video quality . . . .

I normally leave this at the default setting - what are you changing?

These are the settings I use and do not lose visible quality

 

Note in image:

   1   The export video frame rate and bitrate are the same as my Sony cameras. Check that yours are the same

   2.  My Sony is set to shoot Interlaced video Top field first - you need to set this to the same as your camera.

. . . . Movie Edit Pro 2014 Plus Version 13.0.3.14 (UDC2). . . . .

Your MEP is not up to date - the latest is v 13.0.5.4 - you need to apply the latest patch.

HTH

John

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 8/9/2014, 3:14 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Hobbe51 wrote on 8/9/2014, 5:25 AM

Thanks johnebaker!

 

You are right, it is when panning that it shows most.

I got the sound back by resetting to default and make my changes again, however I cannot get rid of the video degradation. It is not much, but I'd like it to be as perfect as the original.

I do change the interlace setting from 'Top field first' to 'Progressive', but if I do not do that, the video will split up the scan lines at every pan or other horisontal movement. That looks much worse.

If I set it to 'Bottom field first' it does not split up the scan lines, but the shaking is much worse than with the 'Progressive' interlace setting.

According to Window's file properties the FPS is 25 in the original files, so that is what I use in the project too. I have experimented with 30 and 50 with no improvement at all.

I have been toying around with the advanced settings too. Googling gave me some understanding on som of them, but I did not manage to get it better. There are, however a lot of settings that I know little or nothing about, so maybe there is something there that could be done.

I'll keep experimenting. If I get it right, I will post the recipie here.

/Hobbe

Hobbe51 wrote on 8/9/2014, 5:27 AM

Thanks johnebaker!

 

You are right, it is when panning that it shows most.

I got the sound back by resetting to default and make my changes again, however I cannot get rid of the video degradation. It is not much, but I'd like it to be as perfect as the original.

I do change the interlace setting from 'Top field first' to 'Progressive', but if I do not do that, the video will split up the scan lines at every pan or other horisontal movement. That looks much worse.

If I set it to 'Bottom field first' it does not split up the scan lines, but the shaking is much worse than with the 'Progressive' interlace setting.

According to Window's file properties the FPS is 25 in the original files, so that is what I use in the project too. I have experimented with 30 and 50 with no improvement at all.

I have been toying around with the advanced settings too. Googling gave me some understanding on som of them, but I did not manage to get it better. There are, however a lot of settings that I know little or nothing about, so maybe there is something there that could be done.

I'll keep experimenting. If I get it right, I will post the recipie here.

/Hobbe

Ps, Except for the interlace, I have the same settings as you show in the picture. Ds

johnebaker wrote on 8/9/2014, 10:47 AM

Hi

. . . . . I do change the interlace setting from 'Top field first' to 'Progressive' . . . .

Is the source video Interlaced or Progressive?

If it is Interlaced then no matter what you do the video will look worse on computer monitors because they are Progressive scan by nature.  If you want to see this in action try playing a commercial PAL DVD on your computer.

. . . I have experimented with 30 and 50 with no improvement at all. . . .

Trying 30 fps will make the situation worse as you are introducing Pulldown - which is a method of creates the extra frames by copying particular frames in a set sequence and repeating them to get 30 fps from 25 fps source material - this adds extra 'jerkiness' to the video.

AFAICS trying 50 fps makes no difference and is unecessary.

You need to be more concerned with your destination viewing device as follows:-

   -  HD TV which can play mts (AVCHD) files - set the scan type to the same as the source material *  for maximum quality -  the TV will automatically determine the scan type and display it correctly.

   -  PC or projector - set the scan type to Progressive - you will still have the issue but it should be minimised.

   -  For creating BD or DVD - set the scan type to the same as the source material * - the player will automatically determine the scan type and display it correctly.

* If you are not sure of the scan type of the source video you can use GSpot or MediaInfo to analyse one of the Sony cameras video files to determine whether it is Interlaced (and which order) or Progressive.

HTH

John

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 8/9/2014, 10:53 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Scenestealer wrote on 8/9/2014, 6:15 PM

Hi

Changing 25fps interlaced to 25fps progressive will make pans etc look more jerky. This is because interlaced footage records 2 interlaced fields every 25th of a second which is, effectively in terms of shooting a moving object, like shooting 50fps progressive and why 25fps interlaced is sometimes referred to as 50i.

With interlaced footage - As the camera or object moves it's position, one field is drawn in in 1/50th of a second before the object moves slightly and then another field is drawn making up the frame, so there is less displacement of the object from one field to the next, and one frame to the next field of the next frame. The persistence of the phosphors in Tube TVs, the deinterlacing methods in Flat screen TVs and our own persistence of vision blends the 2fields to give the motion a smoother look.

Converting at export to 25fps progressive usually just throws away one lot of fields and duplicates the other set meaning there is 1/25th of a second between each change in object position instead of 1/50th as in the above example, hence a jerkier sensation to our viewing.

Peter

Last changed by Scenestealer on 8/9/2014, 6:15 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

System Specs: Intel 6th Gen i7 6700K 4Ghz O.C.4.6GHz, Asus Z170 Pro Gaming MoBo, 16GB DDR4 2133Mhz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 512GB SSD system disc WD Black 4TB HDD Video Storage, Nvidia GTX1060 OC 6GB, Win10 Pro 2004, MEP2016, 2022 (V21.0.1.92) Premium and prior, VPX7, VPX12 (V18.0.1.85). Microsoft Surface Pro3 i5 4300U 1.9GHz Max 2.6Ghz, HDGraphics 4400, 4GB Ram 128GB SSD + 64GB Strontium Micro SD card, Win 10Pro 2004, MEP2015 Premium.

Hobbe51 wrote on 8/10/2014, 3:08 AM

Thanks you Scenestealer and johnebaker!

I really appeciate your help.

The input on 25 FPS interlaced actually being 50i was interesting, but did not help. However your info is accurate and enlightning.

I have updated MEP as suggested and also tried MediaInfo (GSpot did not work) and got a lot of info. By displaying info from original and rendered files and then compare in Beyond Compare I found a lot of minor differences. It was however not possible to make MEP produce the exact same type of file. GOP settings were done in different ways and when I tried to change it I got some complaints form MEP that the settings were incorrect.

The jerkiness I am complaining about is much less than that caused by wrong interlace setting. Any other setting except 25p makes the image very much jery than the problem I have.

I have tried some other programs with corresponding settings and found the following:

Adobe Premiere Elements produces a perfect video, however does not support surround sound.

Vegas movie edit pro (for which I have already paid twice for updates), I do not have the latest update, produces perfect video and 5.1 surround. Only problem is that it crashes all the time.

Corel Video Studio Pro X7 also produces perfect video and 5.1 surround. However, Magix have much better basic video editing options, and I'm reluctant to pay another 50 Euro after having paid 90 Euro for Magix...

Anyway, thank you for your valuable inputs guys. It is very appreciated!

/Hobbe

Hobbe51 wrote on 8/17/2014, 12:38 AM

Hi again, and thanks for your help!

I promised to get back if I found a solution, and now I have one.

First of all I tested some different video software and found this of interest:

I found that CyberLink PowerDVD 12, VLC 2.0.8, Windows media player 1.6.4.6052 and 12.09.9600.17031 as well as the media player used in Windows 8.1 tablet mode (I don't know how to obtain verion of that one) showed the same degradation in the edited version, but not in the original .m2ts. (VLC actually also showed some interlace degradation, which probably is more correct since I had to render as progressive not to get an even worse result.)

However, this is what I did to find the cause of the problem:

I used Windows media player 1.6.4.6052 to play the original file. While playing I tight-clicked the window and selected 'Properties'. Then I copied the information under the 'Mediainfo' tab and pasted to a text-file. (This could also be done using MediaInfo.)

I did the same thing with the rendered version to get a second file.

Using Beyond Compare (excellent program, worth the cost) I compared the files. One thing that stuck out was that there was no GOP at all in the original file.

I had already experimented with the GOP settings, but only got 'invalid parameters' as a result. MAGIX does not have a GOP-off checkbox, but instead I set the 'Max B frames count' to 1, which I beleive would in effect switch GOP off. 

That worked!

All mediaplayers I tested above can now play the rendered version without degradation in video.

So, here's my settings:

Movie setting is PAL HDTV 1080i 16:9 25fps with audio sample rate 48000.

Pressed kbrd 'm' to open the mixer, clicked the 5.1 button and closed the mixer.

File -> Export movie -> Video as MPeg4...

 Pressed 'Reset' to get original settings.

Clicked 'Advanced' and selected 'Surround'.

Clicked 'Advanced video settings...'.

.. and set 'Max B frames count' to 1.

Now it rendered ok.

This was all. 

Thank you for your inputs.

/Hobbe