@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike

The response from the other forums appear to be incomplete, yes the iGPU can still be used, however not with MEP 2016 on Windows 10.

If you want to:

1. Build some future proofing into a newer PC
2. Gain some extra performance/speed of export
3. Use Windows 10 - highly recommended as Windows 7 and 8 are/will be no longer be end of life and security issues will not be fixed.
4. Change over to the more browser compatible mp4 h.264 encoded export format, we have discussed this before - modern browsers do not support the older media players any more.

And taking into account that:-

• The specs for MEP 2016 make no mention at all of any Nvidia or AMD graphics cards being compatible.
• MEP 2016 does not support CUDA, which was removed from the drivers for older GPUs, by Nvidia in 2014, nor does it support the newer NVENC encoding which is required for newer Nvidia GPUs
• Windows 10 installs Direct X 12 whch has been disabled by Intel for the 4th generation processors.

MEP 2016 is Intel iGPU dependant for extra performance, without this it will be using the CPU for all encoding.

This was part of the reason for me getting a new laptop, my old one was an Intel i5, generation 4 based with the HD4600 iGPU.

John EB

Thanks again John and Ray

Sometime ago I could definitely thank John for convincing me to use MPEG4 exports exclusively for purposes of EXPORT regarding archival clips for viewing or posting for friends and veterans. And yes I absolutely know W7 is fading from usefulness. That's the main reason I'm stepping up machines and will install W10 Pro.

For further clarification, (whether it made any difference), I went back back to Tom's forum and restated that I never use IGPU (onboard Graphics). However I see John's comment that "MEP 2016 is Intel iGPU dependant for extra performance" And I remember other folks here complaining that MEP will not allow use of their Video Card's Memory (for efficiency)? Unless there are other versions of MEP that have changed/altered/improved that, it could remain a conundrum ...? 😟 (OR) perhaps the faster i7 processor CPU could improve stability with MEP?

Here's another reply:

As John stated: "Windows 10 installs Direct X 12 which has been disabled by Intel for the 4th generation processors"

If you need DirectX 12 content to keep running on any of the above processors, Intel advises downgrading the graphics driver to 15.40.42.5063 or older, which can be downloaded from Intel's support website. The first graphics driver to have DirectX 12 disabled is 15.40.44.5107

(OR)

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-SR154-Processor-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07NZ23B3G

As another option Intel CORE I5 3470 PROCESSOR ( 3RD GENERATION ) 3.2 GHz Upto 3.6 GHz? *This would be a 'Step Up' from i3 (my current system), but a 'Step Down' from i7 😒

And BTW John, what type of processor does your new laptop have?

Thank You ...

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike

. . . .  Intel CORE I5 3470 PROCESSOR ( 3RD GENERATION ) . . . .

That is a backward step, you should be moving forward to a newer generation processor the latest are 11th generation.

. . . . and BTW John, what type of processor does your new laptop have? . . .

The processor is a 10th generation i7-10750H with intel UHD 630 iGPU - it also has an Nvidia RTX 2060 GPU and I can use them in a Hybrid mode with them both in action when exporting - more information is in my signature.

The images of the responses you are getting in other forums are saying the same as the Intel article I linked to in you previous topic here.

John EB

@CarpentersMate @johnebaker

Hi Mike.

On average, each generation of processor will have more transistors than the one prior. Will possibly have larger first second and third cache sizes. Will have a better range of clock speeds and ability to use later and faster generations of ram. So although an older say i7 will have more cores than a newer i5 doesn't make it able to process faster and the same goes for any inboard GPU within the chip.

It may make an individual program more stable but it may work more slowly with it. A lot will depend on the type of program and the resources it can use within the structure of the computer. Even if you put faster drives in it the bottleneck will occur somewhere else. A lot of us at present probably have drives in our machines that the rest of the computer is never going to be able to use to its full capability. A new generation of computers are already being made ready for next year using DDR5 memory and they will be a magnitude faster than the current generation.

So when John says it is a step backwards to go to a series three processor there is a logical reason for saying so.

Ray.

Not to poke my nose into all this but I am guessing if you upgraded to MEP2022 (pretty cheap right now) and bought an older NVIDIA GPU (like an old 980ti) on the used market I suspect your existing CPU would not be so much of a problem any more. My i7-8700K is using just 15% in Task Manager when I render a 4K MP4 and the old NVIDIA card is more than 5 times faster than the iGPU was in the 2021 version.

Well guys I will always appreciate the patience, courtesy and professionalism here; (more than I ever found on the Apple Forums). I fully understand the obvious things: The only reason I ever mentioned the Intel CORE I5 3470 PROCESSOR 3RD GENERATION was because it 'appeared' some of us were treating the Intell security measure/problem as an insurmountable obstable. Let me say again I do not work with HD and I'm not a gamer. With my needs and limited budget, (even with the security issue), that i7 Optiplex is available everywhere cheaply and it would be nice upgrade from i3. Unless someone would say would forget the posted remedies dealing with a driver roll back, 'That will never work', I'm willing to try it ... Has anyone actually tried the roll back? Or any of the solutions posted?

I think we've beat this horse enough, I definitely need another machine (even just to capture SD). The application locks up constantly. I have to uninstall and reinstall MEP just to keep it steady. So let's sit back have a nice bottle of beer or our favorite drink and enjoy the Holidays .... 😆 I'm gonna build a new machine! 😉

I'll post these clips strickly for viewing content, (they were copied from lower quality reference film at NARA) captured and edited with MEP. Later maybe we'll talk about various 'Up Rez' software. Remember the sacrifices made by soooo many during the war ...😪

Italian Newsreel One

Silent English Clip Illustrating Humanity During The North African Campaign

Precious Seconds Of Rommel's Voice The sound is not available at NARA. I had to be very creative with splicing....

Italian Newsreel Two (Warning Graphic Content) illustrating dead GI's, Brits and wrecked American Equipment...We learned the hard way ...

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Web Site

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike.

The problem only becomes insurmountable if the program needs the resources the that are not obtainable from a given setup. Forget the security aspect beyond it hobbles some CPU's ability to access some of its own hardware.

It only becomes insurmountable if when you have a fresh install of the operating system on the new machine alongside the newly installed program and find it still crashes. Then you have no upgrade path to follow.

Uninstalling and then reinstalling a program seldom fixes anything. All it normally does is make registry entries that now serve no useful purpose other than to slow down the machine as they are 'broken' and irreparable.

We have given our opinions based on prior failures and bitter experiences of increasing demands on systems in general. The ball as it were is now firmly in your court.

Happy hunting for a worthwhile cause.

Ray.

Thanks Ray

"when you have a fresh install of the operating system on the new machine alongside the newly installed program and find it still crashes. Then you have no upgrade path to follow"

If that happens, then what about considering a newer version of MEP?

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike

If you disable the iGPU then you would not be able to access any HWA with MEP16 and I would find this very frustrating no matter what material I was working with.

Upgrading to MEP2022 might be an option but then your Nvidia GT210 would not cut the mustard.

I would not consider anything less than i7 6th gen, and make sure that it has an Intel iGPU, as some do not.

I just watched a doco on Sky TV about a B17 that was on the edge of a formation in Italy and was severely shot up by several ME109's and managed to limp back on only one good engine and ditch in the sea off a British base in Corsica. They even dived on the remains of the plane that is still about 100m off the beach. Some fascinating insights into what it was like for those lads.

All the best for the season.

Peter

Happy Holidays Peter

Thanks for your comments regarding the ME 109's. If I can stay healthy long enough to finish this, there will be more interviews and archival footage incorporated then any previous documentary regarding the North African Campaign. There's been very little focus on this part of the war over the years compared to the European Theater.

I'd just like to say its unfortunate this topic of trying to find a system and OS to compatibly work with is fatiguing. Unless I'm missing something, common practice (in the past) was without hesitation to 'Get Off' anything onboard: whether it be Video or Audio for obvious reasons. That's how I've configured things for years. Its past time to move away from W7 and its exhausting trying to agree or I wouldn't be asking these questions. Much can be lost thru written word. Thru these discussions I thought it was clear this machine I currently have is Kaput-Fini-Terminado-Tot-Morte-Dood-DansLeMille-死的-Mortinta ..(please laugh along with me), after all its Christmas LOL. A good used machine is not impossible and I hope to continue along that path. I believe I understand Magix is designed to work along with CPU capacity rather than lean on memory cache from a video card? It 'seems' others have expressed discouragement regarding that. But all that aside, (truthfully) I enjoy working with Magix.

More To Come ...

Drink, Eat and Be Merry ...

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike.

I'm missing something, common practice (in the past) was without hesitation to 'Get Off' anything onboard: whether it be Video or Audio for obvious reasons.

I think the short answer is. You are missing a lot of somethings.

In the earlier years of me using add on cards for audio spending over £400 a time most barely kept up with the THD, Cross-talk, and S/NR figures of my analog amplifiers. Now, the inboard chip along with discrete components outdoes anything I've owned previously to the point where skipping my analog preamp the sound I'm getting now makes my older power amplifiers seem like new toys regarding fidelity. I just wish they wouldn't use mini-jack inputs and outputs as finding quality connectors is difficult. The ability of it to automatically detect and alter and match various input and output voltage and impedance requirements is a godsend. A mic input can be used as a line input just by changing the jack over. Headphones or the power amplifier? Just plug in either or use more than one output and have both with individual volume and balance control.

The same can be said for the Intel GPU and its ability to use the latest Direct X 12.1 for calculating the video encoding when exporting. The Intel InTru 3D Quick Sync Video takes over all the old 2D rendering requirements previously done by the CPU in older systems but needs to use Direct X 11.1 or higher. Faster than using the CPU but still way behind newer higher end third party graphics cards although some of the various workloads can be shared or passed across from one GPU to the other as needed if the graphics card has the capabilities to do so.

Of course some older programs can't take advantage of some of the improvements as they were not written to take advantage of components that didn't exist at the time.

So it becomes a game of Chicken and Egg when you start to think about 'Upgrading' anything. Newer software needs newer components to take advantage of for increased productivity and newer components need newer software to take advantage of their increased power and capabilities.

This is just a brief look at the interaction of components vs programming and other variables are also at work that make differences such as new motherboards doing memory checks for optimizing the memory sticks and the amount of data lanes between CPU, GPUs and memory increase in speed and number of lanes involved for better transfer rates between internal and external components.

Ray.

"The same can be said for the Intel GPU and its ability to use the latest Direct X 12.1 for calculating the video encoding when exporting"

I'm guessing a lot depends on specifically DirectX12 with regard to MEP (as John pointed out). The solutions I've read about seem practical at 1st glance:

"If you need DirectX 12 applications running on these processor's graphics, downgrade the driver to version 15.40.42.5063 or older"

If I'm to understand the drawback again with the Intell security issue, it appears you gentlemen are not in agreement with these suggestions (from the Dell Forum), because it appears they do not understand the needs or specifics of the MEP issue with regard to DirectX12 - True? As John pointed out it seems MEP can 'only' function properly with a specific DirectX12 driver? Ray; I'm merely looking for a way to get out of the soup and get back to 'basic capturing' without constant crashes. And more importantly gather this information for the future and apply it to another faster PC with W10. Its just unfortunate (at the moment) there are no 'work arounds' regarding the machine I'd like to purcase ... but that's life ...

"as long as you use the latest driver since that is what intel did, they removed DX12 from the driver. If you don't connect the igpu at all and only use a pcie card that will also work".

I'd like to clear up a few things so we can put this to rest: MEP depends on and 'needs' the iGPU, and is not designed to benefit from a PCIe Card - Correct? 'None' of these suggestions from others (above) apply - Correct? If so let's just leave this alone for now until I can figure something else out ... I'm sure you've got a lot of other folks out there who can use your help ... 🙂

One more thing: Although puzzling, (since I've used MEP for years), I wonder if the more frequent 'lock ups' could be the result of my dedicated PCIe? Recently I've been using the 'Download' install version of MEP 2016. But I also have a NEW sealed Magix MEP 2016 Plus (DVD Install). The carton lists 'recommended' requirements for 'Dedicated' Video with at least 512 MB.

Thank You Ray (I do appreciate all your help)!

Merry Christmas! 🙂

Mike

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike.

Not necessarily.

Direct X 12 also contains the parts for applications that would have used Direct X 9 and 11 within it to function. Which version MEP would need, it would take and use if the operating system contained it and the computer components can handle it.

Al seems to have given you the solution on the other thread.

'Needs' is a relative term. If there is no useful GPU then MEP will resort to only using the CPU but then that may cause freezing or crashes depending on the amount of overload on the system (and how the program uses the computers resources). At no point did I say memory can't be accessed or the computer would not even boot to the operating system. 😉.

Ray.

MEP depends on and 'needs' the iGPU

I don't have an iGPU; MEP 2021 and now 2022 run fine. MEP 2022 export times are long compared to the rocket ships (same export times as MEP 2016 and MEP 2021) but it doesn't bother me with my SD and HD material.

I do have Direct X 12.

@CubeAce

 If there is no useful GPU then MEP will resort to only using the CPU but then that may cause freezing or crashes depending on the amount of overload on the system (and how the program uses the computers resources). 

Ray, I've said it before and I'll say it again. My 2011 machine regularly runs at 100%. The CPU is designed not to crash, just like all Intel CPUs of the last 10 years have multiple layers of temperature throttling. You can't "overtax" it like it was a human. If a machine does start carrying on like a pork chop having hissy fits when "loaded up", there is a glitch somewhere or some software isn't installed properly.

I have been running MEP "only" on the CPU for 15 years and it is no better or worse than other programs.

I also note that the "requirements" for MEP 2022 are Direct X 11 and that the intro says "All MAGIX programs are developed with user-friendliness in mind so that all the basic features run smoothly and can be fully controlled, even on low-performance computers".

@AAProds

Hi Al.

So you have never suffered a blue screen or a freeze where even after hours of waiting while has been accessible, not even Task Manager because the keyboard has also frozen? ? I do not mean the machine rebooting or shutting down. I got that a lot of freezes / blue screens in Win 7 when things got overloaded but only suffered once since on Win 10.

I am willing to admit my use may not be typical but please don't say these things don't ever happen.

Ray.

@CubeAce Ray, Win 7 was better for me, actually. It was just such a great OS. I loved it. Did I ever have a BSOD? Of course I did; I didn't say I never did. But it was so rare it didn't bother me. I've had more BSODs/lockups with Win 10 than 7.

As I said, in my experience, any glitches are generally caused by a fault of some kind, not by some fundamental inability of the system to cope with what is being thrown at it.

If Mike's getting crashes with Win 7 and a reinstall of MEP 2016 doesn't fix it, I'd just do a clean install of Win 7. If it's still playing up, then it is probably hardware/drivers. Do a clean install of Win 10. That's pretty stable now. Start swapping the RAM about. Check/replace the power supply (it has been the cause of almost every major issue I've had with my computers).

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike

@Scenestealer and I are singing from the same page and line when Peter commented:

. . . . I would not consider anything less than i7 6th gen, and make sure that it has an Intel iGPU, as some do not. . . . . .

I also suggested the same in one of your previous topics.

A suggested spec would be:

• Intel i7-6xxx minimum, or i7-7xxx (perferred), processor both with integrated GPU
• 16GB RAM, 32GB preferred
• 512 GB Hard disc drive for OS and Programs
• 2TB Hard drive for data, video files etc.
• Windows 10
• for MEP 2016 a Nvidia GPU would not be necessary, this can be added later if you upgrade to
• MEP 2022 a Nvidia GTX 1050 minimum GTX 1650.

John EB

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Fare enough, I don't disbelieve you. Most of my BSODs were with my last motherboard / CPU.

As I said, in my experience, any glitches are generally caused by a fault of some kind, not by some fundamental inability of the system to cope with what is being thrown at it.

Maybe you don't try hard enough. 😆😆😆

My last comment is a bit tongue in cheek and I know neither of you work at the resolutions I work at.

Ray.

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike

I can attest that some of Rays projects would require a Cray supercomputer minimum to run smoothly. 😂

John EB

Thanks John, Ray, Alwyn, Peter, Scenestealer, DesertSweeper & others!

'W7 The Last Time'

Before I even mention updates for W7 Pro - PLEASE NOTE: My intention is to GET AWAY from W7 .... (far away)! If I ever considered a new format of W7Pro it would ONLY be if 'Older' Updates were still available? And it would be the LAST time ....(a temporary measure) in desperation to regain stability ... (please let's not discuss this in depth)

Let me REPEAT: My intention is to GET AWAY from W7 .... Everybody clear on that?

This article (below) is dated a year ago - I'm not sure I would trust the 'Older' Updates are still out there? Even with everything backed up, I would NEVER hit Delete if the older original updates went 'Bye Bye' .. Caution: a newly formatted system (with no security updates) would become 'bait' & 'a sitting duck' for destruction (everyone agree)?

Would you guys trust this info?

https://your.yale.edu/news/2020/01/microsoft-windows-7-support-extended-2021

Thank You (searching for a new system)

Happy Holidays!

Mike