Issue: after removing an object, its source file does not get closed.

Basel-Shishani wrote on 9/7/2022, 11:49 PM

Greetings community:

I'm using audio files that are edited externally in my projects. Say I inserted a rendered audio file into a movie, but decided to remove it, then wanted to edit it externally. The file is locked now and can't be deleted or overwritten by the external software, because it seems MS (MEP) is not closing it. MS creates other project files for the object like with the .H0 extension, which gets locked too. When checking the list of objects in the project info, the removed file -as expected- is not listed, which tells me there should be no connection for the project with the source file. However, I can't find a way to tell MS to unlink or forget the file; the only way to unlink the file and get it closed is to shut down MS and relaunch it.

Even when trying to delete the file inside MS, it returns: 'The action can't be completed because the file is open ...'. That's not what I want to do, but I don't understand why there's no method to tell MS to just forget about a source file that got its object removed.

Comments

AAProds wrote on 9/8/2022, 12:19 AM

@Basel-Shishani

I've noticed the same thing, very annoying. I don't know of a solution.

CubeAce wrote on 9/8/2022, 12:54 AM

@Basel-Shishani

Hi.

First I would say I'm not sure I'm not sure I completely understand your workflow method in as much as what do you want the audio editor to accomplish and when.

If you are trying to launch an audio editor externally from Movie Studio rather from internally using the 'edit wave file externally' command which can only be applied to an object with a corresponding proxy file or the program cannot release the the file for editing, as the edit has to be 'non destructive' as in not able to rewrite the source file which the program would think it is doing.

If you are initially 'cutting' a file from the timeline rather than deleting it, then the file is still in use as far as the program is concerned and in the project folder view it will still have a red square against it showing that the file is still in use within the program. To release a file from the project it must be deleted from the timeline first and not cut.

If you wish to have an audio editor in use separate from Movie Studio then Movie Studio must use the Direct X option for using audio within Movie Studio rather than using the wav driver option, as using the wav driver will not release the audio driver to the audio editor until the video editor is closed.

Ray.

JCI-21 wrote on 9/8/2022, 10:01 AM

It Happen to me too but when I close MS then the system allow me to delete the files.

browj2 wrote on 9/8/2022, 11:58 AM

@Basel-Shishani

Hi,

Yes, if the file was open in MS during the session, it remains locked, even if removed from the timeline and even if you go to Edit then "Empty undo and cache memory" for some reason.

A simple but annoying workaround, save your project, then File, open "Last opened disc projects" and select the same project that is currently open, select Close current project, and your project will reopen. The external file that was removed from the timeline will have been released for other use.

John CB

Basel-Shishani wrote on 9/9/2022, 1:21 AM

@CubeAce

Thanks.

On deleting vs cutting: The object is deleted and has no red dot and is not showing in the object list of the movie information.

On workflow: I don't see this relevant. I import an object, I decide it doesn’t belong in the movie and delete it. Then I want to go to my file manager and delete/move/rename or do whatever with the source file that has no connection with MS, but I find it hogged by MS! If there’s some obscure wisdom behind not automatically releasing the file handle, then allow the user to release it manually; for example by a right-click operation on the file in the import pane.

On workflow again: not trying to launch an audio editor, and the objects that are already on the timeline are not edited in the external editor, because it can mess things up, and because I don’t need it. All the flow is unidirectional from the DAW to MS. The main audio file/s of the movie is imported when it’s pretty stable. Minor changes can be applied in MS like lowering volume on a section or shorting a silent segment, but that’s that. Infrequently the need might arise to modify a section of the audio, this is done by incrementally adding an item in the audio project for the modified section and exporting it separately. Reaper (in my case) allows rendering of individual items or tracks within the audio project, which allows me to keep all the objects related to a movie in a single audio project. This way I also get a rough idea about the change history by a quick glance.

Basel-Shishani wrote on 9/9/2022, 1:29 AM

@browj2

Thanks.

I guess that's equivalent to closing the project and re-opening it.

I suggested in my comment for @CubeAce that a mouse click option in the import pane, for example 'release', would do just fine. That's if there's some wisdom behind not releasing the file automatically upon removing it's object from the timeline. What's your thought on this. I would like to raise it as an issue for Magix.

browj2 wrote on 9/9/2022, 8:15 AM

@Basel-Shishani

Hi,

Yes, my suggestion is equivalent to reopening the project but without reopening the program, which is what others were suggesting.

The only thing that I can think of as to why the file would be locked is that the delete would be in the undo and cache memory. This would be normal as most users would want this. However, and as I mentioned, Edit then "Empty undo and cache memory" should release the lock on the file.

In VPX, there is a slightly different situation and the effect of this may spill over to MS. Importing objects also puts them in the Project Temp Folder. Deleting from the timeline does not remove them from the PTF and should not. The object would have to be deleted from the PTF as well and then the undo and cache memory emptied. I haven't tried it but will shortly.

In any event, I suggest that you ask Magix.

John CB

AAProds wrote on 9/9/2022, 8:45 AM

Then I want to go to my file manager and delete/move/rename or do whatever with the source file that has no connection with MS, but I find it hogged by MS!

Where I have had the problem is when I've tried to delete the file from within Movie Studio's media pool using the right click Delete option. Not always though. Sometimes MS pops up a message saying "there are internal files as well (I assume the HO and HDPs), do you want to delete those too?". Then the Delete works. But other attempts, "No, it's in use" or similar message.

CubeAce wrote on 9/9/2022, 7:22 PM

@Basel-Shishani

Hi.

Movie Studio is a video editor with limited audio abilities.

Reaper is an audio editor with limited video abilities.

Audio in video editing packages is handled very differently to the way audio is handled in a DAW.

Just trying to scroll slowly across the timeline in Movie Studio should audibly show the difference between that and reaper.

A DAW will give an even sounding scroll and change in pitch along with the speed of the scroll.

A video editor will continuously repeat a 'chunk' of audio until it arrives at the next frame (or set of frames) and not change pitch.

If you want both you would have to go to a program which is designed to integrate both jobs but the computing capabilities you would need would be something else. Not to mention the price of the program.

Why this state of affairs exists, I have no idea. I'm not a programmer. All I can say is this is the difference between all but the every top end (and most expensive) of video editing packages and audio mixing editors that I have come across.(even then I'm not completely sure they could do it wither) I don't think even Adobe Premier can do this.

Ray.

Basel-Shishani wrote on 9/19/2022, 5:05 AM

@browj2

Thanks. It makes sense that they might have reasons not to release the file on removing the object from the timeline, like you explained.

I'll probably just suggest to them to have an option when clicking on an object in the media pane to 'release object source' (or 'remove from cache' or whatever) to tell the program that the user has no intention to use the object in the program anymore and thus there's no need to keep the file handle locked.