Keyframe snapping in Movie Edit Pro 2014

Luegge wrote on 3/14/2014, 9:18 AM

Hi there,

I have a question regarding keyframes. I did search the forum, but did not find a question/answer that talks about my particular problem.

I used an animation template provided with MEP 2014 to animate one of my still pictures to create a cool effect with a title animation being played at the same time. However, I wanted to change a few details about how that behaves and tried editing the automatically generated keyframes. 

The problem I ran into is that as soon as I select a keyframe I want to edit, it snaps to a different position in time, making the whole effect not smooth at all any more. Is there a way of turning off that snapping behavior for keyframes, just like with the "object grid" for the timeline editing? Or can the time of a keyframe be entered manually somewhere?

Thank you for your answers.

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 3/14/2014, 4:26 PM

Hi

. . . . Is there a way of turning off that snapping behavior for keyframes . . . .

In this particular case I would suspect the answer is no because I think this is the templates, for want of a better description, 'auto setup' which is doing this.

What I think is happening is that when you make a change to a keyframe set by the template it tries to automatically put it back or set it to the next allowed position.

You may have to manually create the same effect using KF animation - you can use the templates size/movement effects and any others applied by the template as a starting point.

HTH

John

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 3/14/2014, 4:26 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

cpc000cpc wrote on 3/14/2014, 5:49 PM

Luegge,

Exactly which of the templates are you using? I've experimented with several eg  'zoom in left', 'heartbeat' etc and don't see your problem -- simply selecting a keyframe doesn't change its timeline position. The only odd behavior noted is if I try to move a point beyond one of its nearest neighbors and it sometimes gets stuck and can't be brought back as it seems to have been merged with the second point.

Are you editing points by moving the blue diamonds? You might try moving keyframe curve points instead and see if you get the same problem.

Let us know which template you are using and we'll look further.

Regards,

Carl

 

 

 

johnebaker wrote on 3/15/2014, 4:33 AM

Hi

I have no problem dragging the KF markers one by one or in groups providing I start with the rightmost and work left, trying to move a KF past another KF to the right blocks it at that KF frame position.

A long shot - do you have a different mouse you can try this with?  I have seen a simlar unwanted action where the mouse buttton was suffering from contact bounce and delivering multiple clicks.

John

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 3/15/2014, 4:34 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

cpc000cpc wrote on 3/15/2014, 6:13 PM

Glad to hear you can at least get your curve editied using curve points.

John's suggestion about the mouse sounds very reasonable. I can get some occasional unexpected jumps of the diamonds if I do very quick double or triple clicks. Perhaps my hand moves the mouse an imperceptible (to my eye) amount? From my limited programming experience, there might be some subtle difference in the code for handling mouse events in the two sections.

Regards,

Carl

 

johnebaker wrote on 3/16/2014, 12:27 PM

Hi

. . . . I cannot include any images, it seems, so I can't show the difference between before and after selecting a keyframe via the diamonds. . . . .

Odd - jpg, png and gif (included animated) are among the supported formats.

At least you have eliminated the mouse.

@Carl

. . . . here might be some subtle difference in the code for handling mouse events in the two sections . . . .

Mouse, and keyboard, graph tablets or any other HID (Human Interface Devices) are all handled by Windows which passes the event to the program that has focus. 

Have a look at your Windows settings for the mouse - you can change the double click speed and several other parameters for the mouse.

John

Last changed by johnebaker on 3/16/2014, 12:30 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

terrypin wrote on 3/16/2014, 1:07 PM

 


I cannot include any images, it seems, so I can't show the difference between before and after selecting a keyframe via the diamonds...

Use the image tool next to the Smilie icon. Browse for the JPG or whatever, send it to the magix.info server and that's about it.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Last changed by terrypin on 3/16/2014, 1:07 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

Luegge wrote on 3/16/2014, 1:22 PM
I cannot include any images, it seems, so I can't show the difference between before and after selecting a keyframe via the diamonds...

Use the image tool next to the Smilie icon. Browse for the JPG or whatever, send it to the magix.info server and that's about it.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

I was about to say that the symbol next to the smiley icon is the table tool. But it seems that there is an image tool for answers but not for questions. So here are the two screenshots:

After I insert the earthquake template and before touching anything else, the keyframe timeline looks like this (everything nicely aligned):

And by just clicking on one keyframe-diamond, it jumps away (distance and direction depending on which keyframe I select):

terrypin wrote on 3/16/2014, 5:41 PM

I think image insertion should be accessible for both Q and A.

Try using. Ctrl + ArowUp on the timeline before clicking the KFs, in case the issue is caused by snapping to nearest object, given that your KFs are so closely spaced.

 

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Last changed by terrypin on 3/16/2014, 5:42 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

cpc000cpc wrote on 3/16/2014, 8:40 PM

I just composed, and somehow lost, a rather detailed addition to this thread which I won't try and duplicate. In summary:

  • The 'earthquake' template sets keyframes for rotation over the first second and a half. That's 45 frames with unique positions for a 30fps clip.
  • The KF window only shows 27 diamond markers for rotation.
  • The jumps seem to be MEP redrawing individual marker to better reflect their realtime positions.

This is easier to see if you zoom in to single frames on the timeline and move frame by frame with the cursor key. Each frame has a different rotation as shown by the numerical values under the rotation dial. In the KF window, its cursor moves as well but only aligns with a diamond marker occasionally.

Conversely, if you move the KF cursor marker by marker using its arrow icons the timeline cursor jumps to fractions of single frames!

Regards,

Carl

terrypin wrote on 3/17/2014, 3:34 AM

Interesting experiments, Carl. While reproducing them here, I'm also puzzled by other aspects. For example:

 

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/MEP-Earthquake-01.jpg

Similar behaviour with other Movement templates such as Heartbeat. I rarely use track curves so this may just be my ignorance, but I cannot get consistent display of curves and/or their current points. Sometimes I see just the curve but no points. Sometimes I see no curve at all.

@Luegge: I'm not clear how any adjustment would be possible, or make any observable difference? The extremely short durations between KFs are essentially representing vibrations.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Last changed by terrypin on 3/17/2014, 3:36 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

Luegge wrote on 3/17/2014, 3:41 AM

@Luegge: I'm not clear how any adjustment would be possible, or make any observable difference? The extremely short durations between KFs are essentially representing vibrations.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

The vibrations are mostly produced by successive opposite rotations. I find that some of these rotations are too wide and wanted to lower the amplitude of the largest rotations a bit, without modifying the timeline.

@cpc000cpc : I will have to check that out when I have time (which will be the case only later this week), but thank you for the explanations and tests. 

johnebaker wrote on 3/17/2014, 1:42 PM

Hi

. . . . I find that some of these rotations are too wide and wanted to lower the amplitude of the largest rotations a bit, . . .

Agree totally!

I ended up 'rolling my own' using data from a real life large magnitude earthquake - effect was much more realistic and a great exercise in using KF animation.

John

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 3/17/2014, 1:42 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

cpc000cpc wrote on 3/18/2014, 2:15 AM

I'm of the opinion that the surest way to select keyframe markers is with the little arrow icons at the left of the window. No jumping and no problem hitting the tiny dots on the timeline. Down side would seem to be having to go one by one down the line but there is a trick: Position the KF cursor by clicking in the area to the right of the 'Units' label (above the markers) and then use the arrows to actually select the next diamond marker.

@Terry: Your track is effectively straight because you are looking, with single frame zoom, at the pause between the beats.

Regards,

Carl

terrypin wrote on 3/18/2014, 5:46 AM

@Carl: Thanks, reckon I got myself quite muddled there.

--------------------

I too use the arrows but it can also be handy to alter the range with the +/- icons:

I have a macro so that if I hover over a position and type =25 then I get 25 rapid left clicks.

--------------------

Couple of other points. What determines the settings of the checkmark and eye when you apply an effect? For example, for the Heartbeat, why are x and y not checkmarked, like Width, Height and Fisheye? Why include them if they are not active?

BTW, I note that removing a checkmark from a parameter which also has track curves activated removes the curve but the eye remains blue (until the object is re-selected).

--------------------

I'm curious to know how much space others allocate to KFs. I have only two rows:

That's because some of my macros are critically dependent on a fixed layout. To see all of the rows, as for the effects under discussion, I have to expand them by dragging. (With a macro to restore the 2-row layout.)

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Last changed by terrypin on 3/18/2014, 5:54 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)