Hi Peter,

Thanks, I reckon you're right. It can get a bit tricky to interpret the effect of various combinations of those two main options, resolution and proxy, in situations when some objects have had proxy applied and others have not.

Can you amplify on why you don't use proxies yourself please? I'm cooling on it myself and am finding pre- rendering better in some respects. Perhaps your PC performance means you can always get smooth playback without either tool?

-------

One strange occurrence yesterday that may be related to proxies. I trimmed the start of an AVI and exported a still image of the first frame. On importing that BMP, it showed a frame that had been cut! IOW, the preview monitor now showed two different pictures at the join. I haven't methodically tested again, but presumably it's due somehow to the proxy.

Hi Terry

Hi Terry

I guess I see proxies as just another step or complication that fills up my creaking drives with large lowly compessed files, when my machine seems to play most 1080 50P projects smoothly at full res or with the "reduce res" option selected. I do not use a lot of Titles or Collages and if I do I use the prerendering function if they do not play well.

My machine is not that different to yours but the extra clock speed of my processor is definitely an advantage.

I would probably deselect the use proxy object if I was choosing a single frame to export in light of your experience given that the proxy would likely have a different GOP structure to the original.

Peter

Thanks Peter.

After much experimenting I still can't get my head around the way this Quick thingie works.

Take this example. None of the 'smooth playback' elements are enabled and not surprisingly I get a jerky playback of this AVI file (a FRAPS capture of a smooth route animation in Google Earth).

High res: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/MEP-QuickToolBehaviour.jpg

When I toggle on the lightning flash I would not expect any change, because none of the optins are selected. But playback is now smooth.

There is no proxy in the equation as the Use proxy option is not present.

The only implication I can draw from this (other than it being a bug) is that there is some additional function implemented by the lightning flash, not displayed in the list. Or is there some other explanation I've missed?

Hi Terry

AFAICS the 'blue flash' an alternative replacement for this setting

that was in MEP 17, MX and in a simpler form in 2013 and which disappeared in 2014 when the blue flash was introduced.

. . . . The only implication I can draw from this (other than it being a bug) is that there is some additional function implemented by the lightning flash, not displayed in the list. Or is there some other explanation I've missed? . . . .

I suspect that you are correct - ie despite the Reduce resolution option not being checked - that clicking the blue flash does in fact reduce the resolution - possibly equivalent to the 'half resolution' in the image above.

When you do select the Reduce resolution option it is equivalent to the 'quarter resolution' option in the above image.

John

Hi John,

Thanks for that. But my focus is really on jerkiness rather than resolution. Resolution is set here to PAL 16:9 (half) and I go full screen for more detail or precise sizing/positioning. I've never found that ½ or ¼ improve jerkiness on any type of file.

In that typical FRAPS capture example I gave, the file played jerkily before any attempt to smooth it. So I'm keen to find how to work smoothly with these files. One key part of this is understanding how both the Quick tool  and pre-rendering features work.

(An aside while I remember: do you know where MEP puts those pre-rendered files? I thought I'd found them, but they contain no video information, just wall-to-wall FFFFFF characters.)

As you probably saw up-thread ('...strange occurrence...') as well as the jerkiness I'm having a new problem with these files which might possibly be related: inconsistent capture of still images. Peter reckons this is some sort of GOP incompatibility, but I'm out of my depth on that stuff. Meanwhile I'm faced with the dilemma of either:

- Playing the clip smoothly to point X to take a still image, but then the BMP turns out to be of point Y (which can be either before or after X!)

- Playing the clip jerkily and randomly taking stills in an attempt to get a seamless join.

Both are obviously unsatisfactory. So I'm trying to convert the original files. I'm cautiously optimistic after work last night about exporting the AVI using the 'AVCHD-Transport stream 1920x1080 25 PAL' preset. That seemed to play smothly and its captured stills were consistent with what was in the preview monitor.

Arguably, that's not really as inconvenient as it first appears. It's an exta step, but so are proxy creation and pre-rendering. And at least I can broadly understand what the conversion is doing, unlike those two MEP tools!

I'd upload a file so others can better understand what I'm on about. Even without FRAPS installed it would be interesting to see how MEP handles one. But they're very large so I think that's impractical.

Hi

Not sure what is going on there guys because it works as expected here - no change unless an option is ticked and definitely not 1/4 resolution on 1080 50P AVCHD files.

Is your display option set to something other than Standard mode Direct 3D perhaps. Also Terry your OS does not support DX11 and later versions of MEP accelerate footage and effects with DX11 via the GPU so maybe there is something else kicking in or out that makes your footage smooth or not smooth. Perhaps monitor GPU usage (load) with GPU-z and CPU usage with Task manager and see if anything changes when you toggle the options on and off.

Peter

I'd upload a file so others can better understand what I'm on about. Even without FRAPS installed it would be interesting to see how MEP handles one. But they're very large so I think that's impractical.

Sounds like they are uncompressed AVI files and if they are playing jerkily it may indicate that there is a bottleneck in your disk throughput caused by their corresponding high data rate.

The prerender files are in C:\Users\Peter\Documents\MAGIX\Movie Edit Pro 2014 Premium\PerfBounce and being MXV's they are not recognized by any of our info tools.

Peter

Hi Terry

. . . . But my focus is really on jerkiness rather than resolution. . . . .

Unfortunately you cannot seperate these two properties for playback in the preview monitor.

The settings in MEP 17 - 2013 which have now been replaced by the Quick function (with added extras) were/are designed to give smoother playback in preview.

The Quick function which, AFAICS, changes the playback resolution does the same function and has the advantage that it can be turned on/off at will much more easily.

With the introduction of proxy editting a third method of achieving smooth playback was added to MEPs toolkit.

I agree with Peter re the AVI files and his conclusion.

HTH

John

The prerender files are in C:\Users\Peter\Documents\MAGIX\Movie Edit Pro 2014 Premium\PerfBounce and being MXV's they are not recognized by any of our info tools.

Peter

Hi Peter,

The files I've found after doing a pre-render have an .H0 extension and are empty of any useful info as mentioned:

High res: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/MEP-Perfbounce-1.jpg

I'm guessing these are unwanted remnants of some sort? I'll test again later and ensure I immediately look in the project folder for an MXV after using the feature, but I couldn't find any before.

I'm still working on the AVI files. Re the still image problem, I just exported the last frame of a 35 second AVI (as seen in preview monitor) and got the first frame!

Here's MediaInfo's summary of that file: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/FRAPS-AVI-1.jpg

I've been using these for years with no problem apart from occasional jerkiness. Never had this still image issue before. Maybe my HDs need a squirt of WD40?

Hi,

Too early to be sure but I think this setting may have been playing a part in my jerkiness issue with these FRAPs files.

I was surprised to find that enabled, as my records show I used to have it unchecked. After unchecking it, the couple of AVIs I tried now play pretty smoothly. The Help says nothing about what it does, only that it's "particularly suitable for lower performance PCs." How do others set it?

Change footage dimensions... was also enabled and I've unchecked that too, given that Help says "this function requires more processing power", but I'm not sure what negative effects it will have so I may revert if it doesn't affect the smoothness.

John, Do you still have the view you posted earlier?

"I suspect that you are correct - ie despite the Reduce resolution option not being checked - that clicking the blue flash does in fact reduce the resolution - possibly equivalent to the 'half resolution' in the image above.

When you do select the Reduce resolution option it is equivalent to the 'quarter resolution' option in the above image."

Terry, I have seen issues with video clips that are "cut" appearing in sequences when they should not be there.

Sometimes eliminating the cashe memory helps, sometimes rebuilding the frame table fixes it and again just saving the file, quitting MEP and reloading will help.

I have experience this a few times over different productions. Complicated scenes seem to compound the issue.

It has really played havoc with my work flow on occasion.

If I can reproduce it I will report it to Magix. I think complicated tracks confuse the program. My computer is certainly up to the task, i7, 32gb mem etc etc

MEP 2015 Pro Premium 

Hi Terry

. . . . The files I've found after doing a pre-render have an .H0 extension and are empty of any useful info as mentioned: . . . .

The preview render files are MXV fomat, have a filename starting Perfbounce_. . . . ..mxv, are located in the Perfbounce folder and have a resolution of 960*540 px.

The H0 file, IIRC, contains the small images you see on the video on the timeline.

. . . . John, Do you still have the view you posted earlier? . . . .

With respect to the QF - yes - there are only so many things you can change to improve playback and preview monitor resolution is one of them, as we have always advised both in the old forum and here on the issue of jerky playback with earlier versions of MEP. 

Why your AVI should play smoother with the Overload optimisation turned off sounds illogical, given that the option is supposed to improve performance.

I have both the Overload optimisaztion and Change footage dimensions checked.

John

Thanks Bill, appreciate the feedback. One thing I'll try in the morning, prompted by your mention of 'cut', is to take the still image capture before I cut the clip at that point, to see if that makes any difference.