Greetings Ray,

I read what you say(?). The original file is a continuous shot from my camera on a tripod so tree positions etc are not a problem. As for "the goal for the end result" there isn't one really at the moment. As I said I've been playing with MEP while editing a video from some time ago.

The sky had many single flashes but they were each in a different area of the sky. What I'm trying to do is have those single flashes that are in different parts of the sky superimposed so that there are 3, 4 or more flashes in the same frame to look as though the sky is filled with lightning - like a firework display in fact.

When I found it was tricky (or impossible) to do is when I posted. I can't see me using this effect in this particular edit but if it can be done I would like to know how to do it so that I can do it when I want to do it - if any of that makes sense.

AndyW

@me_again

Hi Andy,

Yes, it's possible. You have to use masks and put the pertinent pieces of the video on separate tracks with a mask in between. Remember that the track protocol is that something on a higher numbered track sits on top of whatever is on a lower numbered track. Mask protocol - the white part makes that part of the object the higher track opaque; black makes it transparent and you see that part of the object on the next track below (lower numbered track).

So, if you want 3 lightning flashes at once and you have one at the left, one in the middle and one on the right, then put each one below the other with an empty track between - i.e. 1 left lightning, 3 middle, 5 right.

Put a mask on track 4 to see just the right side of track 5 and the left and middle of track 3. Try mask 50 and invert the alpha arrow so that the right part is white, left 2/3 is black - the masks are under Templates, Image Objects, Layer masks.

Place mask 49 on track 2 or mask 50 mirrored such that the black part is at the left.

Now you should see all 3 lightning strikes. Of course, you may have to play with the size position of the masks as the lightning may not be exact.

John CB

@me_again

Hi Andy.

Try lining the clips up on individual tracks and using the Chroma Key effect using either STAMP or MIX on the lower tracks and vary the blend levels to taste. You may be limited to using only two or three tracks though.

There may be more advanced techniques that would involve making the successive clips into matts as the contrast is high between the flashes and background that should make reducing the background to black easier. Then export the matt versions to then use the Chroma Key effect using black instead or stamp or mix, as that would give a cleaner look to the result and the possibility of using more tracks stacked one below the other.

However you do it it may still not look convincing due to the cast light around the scene that may not come through strong enough compared to the flashes produced on the first layer.

Composites nearly always rely on a variation of Chroma key effects and masking or using a dedicated plugin that simplifies the processes for the user.

Using John's suggestion may leave traces of the edges of the masks that may have to be feathered to blend less conspicuously.

Ray.

@browj2 @CubeAce

Greetings both and thanks for the replies, I'll give your ideas a go tomorrow now - Grandchildren invasion.

As I said, it's something I thought of and couldn't think how to do. I knew somebody (or two) would know how. Thanks from someone just about to enter his 7th decade.

AndyW

@me_again

Thanks from someone just about to enter his 7th decade.

Welcome to the old farts club, Andy! Who would have thought we'd still be using MEP after almost 20 years.

@AAProds

Twenty years of MEP? After all the years, in the old forum and now this one, posting about pulling my hair out in frustration with some action of the program not doing what it's supposed to, MEP has won!! I'm now bald.

Believe it or not, I still have a link to your website on my system even after many PC changes and it still has valuable information on it especially for those that use the previous generations of MEP.

Still, thanks for the welcome to the Old Farts club Alwyn and apologies in advance to the World of MEP users if I continue wittering on for a few more years about niggly things in the program - usually the same undebugged niggly things I moaned about 20 years ago.

AndyW

ps I think I've just invented a new word - "undebugged". I give it to the forum royalty free.

@me_again Yep, still lurking on the interweb. Amazing what we got up to back then!

😵

@me_again

aka "undocumented features." I have worked hard in the past trying to document undebugged (© Andy W) features.

7th decade - still a youngster. I just hit one decade higher.

John CB

@browj2 @CubeAce

I've had some success with masks but to be honest it's such a faff and doesn't look as good as I thought it would. If at some time there is a genuine reason to do it, then at least I now know how and I'll put more time into it. Thanks for your help.

John - thanks for the "youngster" comment. It's been scientifically proven that the more birthdays you have the longer you live.

@AAProds "Amazing what we got up to back then!". Aah the brashness of youth.

AndyW

@me_again

Hi Andy.

This is why I suggested trying to make a matt dynamic mask that could be applied to the movement within each frame. It is more convoluted and can be painstaking but can work with isolating a bright subject compared to the background.

To isolate the lightning in a clip the first thing to do is to reduce the clip to black and white reducing the colour with the colour effect and reducing the saturation control.

to this

I don't have any lightning clips so I've used the skeleton in this clip.

Then using the Brightness Contrast effect adjust the gamma, brightness and contrast to make the lightning (skeleton) stand out without losing definition and to try to darken the background.

Above you can see I've isolated the skeleton reasonably well but not the background to the left and right. With lightning you may have more luck and not need to do the next step.

To get rid of the side problems I used the cookie cutter to remove the sides but have to key frame the size of the oval and move it in both the X and Y axis to follow the movement of the skeleton.

That was the laborious and difficult part. If anyone knows a better way to do that then please let me know.

Export that as a video file. The object should have no colour to it. I saved the wrong image here it should be B&W.

So then import the clip back into the project and line it up on a track under the original and use the Chroma key effect to produce a mask so the original clip shows through in sync with the original.

Then turn off all of the added effects to the original clip. This allows you to now see the chosen object in colour.

Now export this file as the colour version.

You can then use the Chroma key with Black to put into another video and produce a seamless working moving matt that should blend into the video if you take a bit more care than I did as I spent about 20 minutes doing it and it has taken me longer to type this out.

If anyone wants to make a tutorial on how to do this please be my guest. I'm too lazy and not that interested beyond figuring out how to overcome problems. Remember though the eventual quality of the finished video will depend a lot on the quality of the starting material. How easily that material can be manipulated and the effort needed to key frame where needed.

Ray.

@me_again

Hi Andy

Is the background of the video virtually black? If so try Chromakey black or the Chromakey Color tool to remove the background, adjusting the sliders for best effect.

You can then resize/position as needed, you could add any night scene as a background as well.

John EB

@me_again

Hi Andy,

Since it seems that you've never tried using a mask, it's time to try.

Put 2 vastly different video clips on the timeline, one below the other but with an empty track in between. Go to

Templates, Image Objects, Layer masks, and choose a mask, like a circle, and place it on the track in between. Alpha Chromakey should be activated by default when a mask is selected. Do you now see one video with a hole in it that shows the other video?

That is the basic starting point.

John CB

Greetings and thanks for the replies.

Apologies for not answering sooner but she who must be obeyed decided that it would be a wonderful idea to take the grandkids away in the caravan as the weather is so nice.

So here I am getting some more wonderful footage of lightning and dancing rain accompanied by a soundtrack of kids telling ME to put my phone down.

I'll try your ideas when I get back.

AndyW

Edit for rubbish predictive text

@me_again

getting some more wonderful footage of lightning and dancing rain

But didn't you say the weather is "so nice"? 😉

accompanied by a soundtrack of kids telling ME to put my phone down.

Oh the irony! 🙂

@browj2 @johnebaker @CubeAce

OK, tried the "cookie cutter" approach with some success but blimey, it's a lot of faff.Tried the mask approach, again with some success.

.I can see the reasoning behind using masks and "cookie cutters" (isnt that just another mask approach?), and can that they will be useful given the right circumstances, so I've printed your comments off for future reference.

The chromakey approach works well and I can't for the life of me I don't know why I didn't use this in the first place without troubling you.

@AAProds

The weather was so nice when when she decided we were going, and then everything went downhill - including the weather! Mind you the Grandkids calling me "Ancient Ancestor" brightened things.

AndyW

ps I would tag this as resolved but the actual solution (chromakey) was mentioned by 3 peeps so ....

@me_again

AAA. You could be AncientAncestorAndyProds! 😄

@me_again

Hi Andy.

It would be nice to have similar tools in the Chroma Key section that Vegas has as this would have been a cinch with them but please I'm not getting into a which editor is better conversation. Just making an observation for those interested. Scroll down the link to see what I mean.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

It would be nice to have similar tools in the Chroma Key section that Vegas has

Vegas users would like to have those tools in Vegas as well. Your link is to Vegas Image which is an image editor, not the video editor Vegas. It is like PhotoShop, Lightroom, PaintShop Pro, and dare I say, Xara P&GD (which has lighter bitmap tools but much stronger vector tools). I saw somewhere the source of Vegas Image, and I don't think that it's Vegas - it was a third party, just like Vegas FX (HitFilm).

We can pretty much do the same thing with MEP/VPX. At the bottom end, we have the PhotoDesigner as the image editor that comes with VPX/MEP. Change this to the photo editor of your choice. I use either Xara Designer Pro X and I linked PaintShop Pro as its bitmap editor, or simply PaintShop Pro. However, for those with Xara DPX or P&GD, we can create also static and animated overlays, this includes bringing in and modifying photos. The object that goes onto the timeline is a XAR object, which can be reopened in Xara. Everything done in Xara is editable - non-destructive - unless you make it so. Vegas Post has no such capability as far as I know.

The only problem is that Magix has messed up the Xara thing and, for some reason, the XAR objects get emptied after a few restarts of the program.

That said, I don't see how Vegas Image could have done what Andy wanted to do. He has a video, not an image.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

Did you watch the video? It's for video clips not still images.

It is part of Vegas Post Suite.

Ray.