Movie Edit Pro masks

clement5 wrote on 10/5/2014, 9:35 AM

The masking is vey simple.  I would like to have several masks for brightness/contrast to be able to adjust different regions separately, but there seems to be only one mask.  Once it is used, the brightness option only adjusts using that mask and no longer adjusts the whole video, and I can not add another mask.  Is there any workaround?????

Really masks should be multiple, and all features should be associated with that mask.  Click on the mask and adjust any features you wish.  This would of course adjust the video track associated with that mask.  Then when you clisk on the video track the adjustments would adjust it overall.  Also the correct way of doing this would allow you to turn off the mask by turning off the track it is located on.  This is very simple and logical from the user point of view and actually would be simple to implement.

Comments

browj2 wrote on 10/5/2014, 2:40 PM

Hi,

You lost me a bit here.

There are different ways to apply masks.

The first is simply to apply one to a video clip using the Load Mask from the effects popdown. This mask is simply a black and white or gray-shaded image, where the white or brighter parts show the effect and the darker parts let the original image show through. The mask does not add any effects itself, other than movement if you keyframe it. The effect is on the base video. See below. I applied a major blur to the image on track 1, but loaded a simple oval mask using the Load mask function from the pop-down. I inverted the mask to have the oval part black and it shows the dogs clearly. The blurred part is in the white area. Note that the effects to applied to the mask have a little red square turned on. Without this, the area in the black part would see whatever effect is applied to the base image.

A second way is to add in a mask between 2 images, i.e. image on track 1, alpha mask on track 2, image on track 3. The white part of the mask shows the image from track 3; the black shows the image from track 1. This is a different effect.

In either case, the mask can have multiple black or white shapes, but they are static with respect to each other, so moving the mask around would allow the size of one shape to change relative to the other.

A third way is create an animation mask if you have Xara. With this you can create multiple shapes (no shading allowed) and you can move them around and resize them within Xara to follow the action.

A fourth way is as described in the tutorial by John Baker. Create and apply 2 separate masks on a transparent background (not jpeg, use png) that can be applied, moved and resized separately.

Again the masks do not contain any effects, other than movement. They are masks. This is not a Magix proprietary feature, this is the way it is done in all video editing programs, as far as I know.

The mask is applied only for the length of the mask object.

If, as you seem to indicate, you want to apply 1 mask with the brightness at one level and then go back to the normal brightness, then simply cut the video at that point (place the playback cursor where you want to cut an object, click on the object and press T) and then remove the effect.

Is this what you are looking for?

 

 

 

Last changed by browj2 on 10/5/2014, 2:40 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

John C.B.

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clement5 wrote on 10/5/2014, 3:13 PM

I understand perfectly how it works and is set up.  The problem is that I have a video with light and dark bands that I want to bring to the same level as the rest of the video.  If I create a mask for the video with the light bands I can darken them, but then I can not lighten the dark bands.  I need a second mask for the dark bands.  Yes, I understand that the masks only change the existing track, but I want 2 independent masks for the same track.  Actually I want 3 or more independent masks.

When a mask is created, I have to click on the video track to get at the controls.  A much better scheme would be to have the controls associated with the mask, so I could create 2 masks, then each mask would have separate controls to change the video and they would of course work sequentially top to bottom.  Mask 1 could raise the brightness of dark bands and mask 2 would lower the brightness of  dark bands.

Yes, I could do that sequentially by outputting the results from one mask, and then doing another pass with the second mask.  This is ugly, time consuming, and inevitable mistakes will require doing it again and again because I can not see the final result in 1 pass.

The utility of multiple masks/video track is endless because old videos do not necessarily have uniform characteristics.  One mask could be used to increase the brightness at the edges of a video, while another might just be used to fix the color in one corner.  But then maybe this is available in the higher priced professional editor, which is a bit to pricey.

browj2 wrote on 10/5/2014, 5:26 PM

You didn't state which version of MEP you have or which flavour - regular, Plus or Premium.

In 2014, Plus and Premium, there is an HDR Gamma slider with an associated HDR Blur. This allows you to bring up the darker parts without losing the blacks and without affecting the brighter areas.

There is also the Gamma slider that can be applied to the highs, midtones and lows.

Brightness and contrast should be avoided unless that is the effect that you want. See some of my replies in this thread showing what happens to the blacks and whites when using the different effects.

I have MEP2014 Plus and VideoPro X6, which is the expensive version. There is no way to put the effects on the masks or using the Load mask function to have more than one mask loaded.

I can understand that it would be nice to be able to apply more than one mask and have each one affect something different, it cannot be done.

If you have HDR Gamma, and since your case is a brightness/darkness issue, copy your image onto track 3, assuming you don't have an audio track on track 2. Then drag in (don't use the effects pop-down) an appropriate mask to apply to the lighter area, or create one and drag it onto track 2, between the 2 images. Apply the Chroma key Alpha to the mask. Now solo track 1 and darken or reduce the brightness so that the image is acceptable, the brighter area that is. Now remove solo and click on the track 3 image and use the HDR Gamma to bring up the dark areas and compensate a bit with HDR blur. This will not affect the brights. The black or darker part of your mask should be size/positioned over the bright areas that you reduced on track 1. This will allow these areas to show through. The rest of the mask should be white, to keep the remainder that is on track 3.

If you don't have the HDR Gamma, then you need 2 masks and there are 2 different methods to do this.

First method:

Copy your image to track 4 and move it out of the way for the moment. Apply your effect to track 1, say darken it and then apply a mask from the Load mask function that will have the white part that will cover only the area that you want darkened. Invert the Alpha arrow if necessary. In my example, this is the white oval.

Now drag in a mask onto track 3 that will cover only the area that you want to brighten and place it below the first mask. Give it Chromakey alpha effect. I used a small square. The part that will show the area to be brightened should be white.

Now drag the image on track 4 below the other ones and brighten it. Look at the image below for the final result. The oval mask on track 2 shows the area that I darkened on track 1. The square mask on track 3 shows the area that I brightened on track 4. The rest is the original image.

The other method consists of 3 images and 2 masks.

No time to finish this now. Let me know if this helps.

Last changed by browj2 on 10/5/2014, 5:26 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

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clement5 wrote on 10/5/2014, 11:22 PM

Thanks, but obviously there is no simple solution to the problem.  I have MEP 2014 plus.  The duplicate copies of the video with blue screen are again a very ugly, time consuming workaround, but not as bad as saving, restoring in terms of time.  I really could use 3 or 4 multiple masks.  The blue screen method would require changing the blue screen mask every time I change the effects mask-UGH.

YES I know that the mask merely defines where the operation is used on the original video, but the operation can and should be associated with the mask track.  That way one can do successive operations with multiple masks.  The association with the original video track is because they didn't think ahead to what might be possible.  Notice that associating the operations with the masks would make the interface much simpler.  At present if you have a mask and with to add an operation to it you have to delete it, do the operation, and then add the mask back in.  Again this is an ugly solution.  With multiple masks each mask would have access to all operations.

Well I have also requested this type of thing for VirtualDub, and that video processor would be able to implement it easily with no fuss.  The big problem with either MEP multiple masks or VirtualDub masks is getting the developers to pay attention and actually implement the idea.  The multiple mask idea actually creates a whole range of effects which are currently very difficult because it allows successive operations in various areas.

browj2 wrote on 10/6/2014, 2:14 PM

I don't understand what you mean about:

  1. "The duplicate copies of the video with blue-screen are again a very ugly, time consuming workaround..." There is no blue-screen in what you need, simply copy the video from track 1 to track 3, place a mask between them, give it Chroma key Alpha, and add effects to track 1 or 3.
  2. "The blue screen method would require changing the blue screen mask every time I change the effects mask-UGH." Why? The effect is applied to the video, not mask (as you seem to want). If you change the effect on the video you don't have to change the mask. You can keyframe the effect on the video or simply split the video to have a radical change in effect, but the mask can remain.
  3. "At present if you have a mask and with to add an operation to it you have to delete it, do the operation, and then add the mask back in." No, you don't. If you add or change an effect to the video where the mask has been added directly to the video, you simply click on the mask checkbox to indicate whether or not the effect should apply to the mask. See  the images below. There is no need to delete the mask then add it back in.
  4. "....but the operation can and should be associated with the mask track." There is no specific track assigned to masks. In the case of loading a mask using the effects pop-down, the mask shows up on the track immediately below the image/video to which it is applied. If there is already something there, it will be pushed down one track. If there is an object, say a title on the same track but that does not interfere with the effect, it stays where it is. And I disagree with you about putting the effect on the mask and not the image. The effect should be and has to be assigned and applied to the image, not the mask. I could not imagine telling the mask, which is just a B&W image, that BTW, I want you to make the part of the image on track 1 brighter and blurred in the masked part. You wouldn't even be able to see what the effect is on track 1 when you were doing it. Thus for me, your solution just would not make good sense.

ADDING EFFECTS TO THE UNDERLYING IMAGE WITHOUT TOUCHING THE MASK

First image - only one effect - video on track 1 is darkened but this only shows up within the mask.

Second image - I added the Whilrpool effect to the video on track 1. I did not delete the mask. I simply checked the little box and the effect shows up in the masked area (oval), along with the brightness effect (darkening) that was in the first image above. If I add another effect, then the same thing happens. Simply check the box.

Third image - I unchecked the box and the Whirlpool effect is not masked but shows up within and outside of the mask.

If you want to remove the effect, say the Whirlpool, then simply uncheck the box to the left of Whirlpool. To remove it permanently, right-click on the Whirlpool or effect, and select Delete effect.

So, why do you say that you have to delete the mask in order to change the effect?

Why do you find this process difficult and ugly when I find it easy? I think that you do not understand all of the possibilities and the way it all works, especially when you say that you have to delete and recreate the mask just to change the effect on the underlying image.

MULTIPLE MASKS

Below is another example with multiple masks, not using the Load mask function, just using Chromakey to achieve the same effect that I showed in my other post. All masks were resized and moved to the location where I wanted the effect to occur. The square mask on track 2 will show 2 effects that are on the video on track 1 - brightness (darkened) and whirlpool. The oval mask on track 4 will show 2 effects, brightness (brighter) and a color change to redish-magenta. The image on track 3 is the untouched video that shows up outside of the masked areas. The star shape mask on track 6 will show the effects applied to track 7.

First image - Brightness and whirlpool applied to track 1. The black square on track 2 shows the effects that are on track 1 within the square, and whatever is above it, meaning track 3 is protected by the white part.

Next image - added oval mask to track 4 and a copy of the image from track 3 onto track 5. Brightness and color change applied to the video on track 5 show up due to the white part of the oval mask, with the black part letting show whatever is below track 5, meaning tracks 1 to 3.

Next image - I added a kind of star shape mask to track 6 and a copy of the image from track 3 onto track 7. I applied brightness of 100 to the video on track 7, which results in a bright white star shape due to the white part of the mask on track 6 showing the effect from track 7 in the white part, and letting whatever is below, meaning tracks 1 to 4 show up in the black part.

 

Last changed by browj2 on 10/6/2014, 2:14 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB, 12TB, 14TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

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clement5 wrote on 10/11/2014, 6:29 PM

Blue screen is another term for chroma key as only blue was used in TV industry initially.  Years it ago it was called the blue screen, but I guess that terminology is now passe.

I did not see the button to enable adding new effects to a mask.

Please understand that I am not saying the effects modify the mask, but the effects modify only the video.

The mulitple mask is extremely general and simple.  THERE IS a specific track for the mask, just below its associated movie clip.  I think the Sony movie editor uses a multiple mask scheme, the last time I used a demo version.  The situation is that the picture is processed from top to bottom on the tracks.  A given track could be selected as a mask.  The controls on that track would be used to modify the picture that is passed to it from above, and the mask would select the amount of modification.

Notice that the current scheme means that the effects for a given track can only be used either with a mask or for the whole frame.  A multiple mask method would keep the control on the movie intact and add various layers of controls below.  So let us say you have 2 sequential clips each with associated masks controlling brightness.  Say you want to brighten clip 1 without affecting clip 2.  How do you do that?  With multiple masks you just up the brightness on clip one.  Yes, it is possible to change brightness for the whole video, but then you are raising clip 2.

Another situation is say you want to put in an effect in one area, and you want to layer another effect on part of that area and another area.  It is as easy as Pi to do that with multiple masks.  I claim the single mask technique is way too limited.  But perhaps I can convince the developers of VirtualDub to put in a masking scheme which would be associated with each effect.  Since VD allows unlimited chained effects it could accomplish easily what MEP can not.  Of course with the advent of 64bit MEP, most VD filters will be unavalable in MEP because they have not been converted to 64bit.  I work with fixing old videos/movies and need a plethora of techniques including rotoscoping, so one program does not fill the bill at an affordable price.