Neat Video - MEP bug?

johnebaker wrote on 2/22/2019, 11:40 AM

Hi everyone

I have discovered an obscure bug in Neat Video 4 and/or MEP which I hope someone can replicate as follows:

Add 3 video clips to the timeline
Set transition between the clips to Crossfade
Apply Neat video to the first video clip
Delete the second clip, closing up the gap, to a crossfade transition
Export the timeline

If you play exported video you should see part of the removed clip in the transition see clip below of exported video being stepped through.

If I apply Neat Video first before adding any transitions then there is another issue with a 'step' change in the transition.

It would appear NV + crossfade has an issue.

To work around this issue I am having to apply NV to each clip that needs it (these are low light shots) individually and exporting as MXV for import into the project.

Thanks

John EB

Comments

CubeAce wrote on 2/22/2019, 1:56 PM

@johnebaker

I've only got the evaluation version of NV so far John so I'm not sure if I could try it.

I have noticed in MEP that when trying out some transitions, that MEP seems to render that section and any subsequent editng causes trouble. I can't remember when this happened to me in the past but something similar did happen and I had to start the project again. I wasn't using neat video though. At the time I just assumed that was how MEP was able to keep up with my lowly CPU. Are you sure MEP hasn't done any rendering similar to what can be done before final export?

browj2 wrote on 2/22/2019, 2:34 PM

Hi John,

I found that applying NeatVideo and then creating transitions was a disaster upon export. I put together my last video (from 8mm film) doing all of the editing, colour correction, NV and even some stabilization, but no transitions before exporting to mxv. Note that in this case, NV has to be the last in the chain with the exception of Mercalli v4; NV doesn't like image effects to be applied after it, and it doesn't much like changes to effects once NV has been applied. Then I imported that into VPX, cut it up, made transitions, added titles, intro, outro, used the mxv in Samplitude for music and audio overdub, then exported.

Now, in the current 8mm project, I changed my method. I did some rough editing, cropping where the edges of the film frame were visible (and some edge dirt), then applied NeatVideo to the video objects. If there was a drastic change of scene, I split the object before applying NV. Then I exported to mxv, imported that into VPX and I'm doing the fine trimming, colour correction, stabilization, transitions, etc., to that. This seems to work better.

I exported to mxv in ranges, so as not to take forever, using one computer, then copied the clips to my other computer as they became available, and started editing while the next range was exporting.

John CB

johnebaker wrote on 2/23/2019, 3:29 AM

@CubeAce, @browj2

Thanks for the info, fortunately for what I was doing it was not a disaster, only 3 clips were affected by 'issue'.

Looking more into the problem it looks like NV looks ahead and if there is an adjoining clip which transitions through crossfade - I have not tried this with other transitions - it includes a portion of the next clip that is in the crossfade up to the end of the clip it is actually being applied to.

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 2/23/2019, 7:46 AM

@johnebaker

Hi John.

If I come into contact with this behavior again with another plugin, I'll take a screenshot because if I remember correctly, a small thin line (light brown?) appears within the top blue timeline where the transition is apparently rendered into the project. I wasn't sure at the time what it represented but on reflection, I think that was all it could have been. The more I delve into MEP the more I'm finding things that are not mentioned in the manual. Especially additional optional behavior in transitions. Sometimes it's hard to even work out what some of the optional plugins can do.

johnebaker wrote on 2/23/2019, 8:24 AM

@CubeAce

. . . . small thin line (light brown?) appears within the top blue timeline where the transition is apparently rendered into the project. . . . .

Check that there is not a fragment of a video or image clip between to 2 objects where this occurs - zoom in - and remove the transition from the clip, the fragment may be only a few frames long.

If there is no fragment can you zoom the timeline to show about 3 secs each side of the thin line and grab the shot so as to include the objects on the timeline it applies to, also the name of the transition would help.

HTH

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 2/23/2019, 9:05 AM

@johnebaker

I do mean within the blue timeline bar itself, John. There were no signs of additional clips when expanded. I can check if it happens again though.

johnebaker wrote on 2/23/2019, 10:57 AM

@CubeAce

. . . . the blue timeline bar itself . . .

That is what I assumed, however I have never see this happen.

John EB

browj2 wrote on 2/25/2019, 2:35 PM

I didn't bother trying the transition problem as my testing (5 hour export) showed that doing transitions was a disaster. I found a page somewhere on the NV site most about speeding up NV, and at the end there was a note that a good way to edit (after rough cutting) would be to apply NV, make an intermediate, and then edit. Of course, I can't find that article now.

About look-ahead, that is how NV works. You can adjust the Radius value to look at more clips. Below is what I use for 8mm film clips. Radius = 4 and Slow shutter on. You can see in the image the clips that are used for analysis. Slow shutter helps reduce the use of the copied images. The copies were created by VPX because the scan is at 20 fps, reduced to 16 fps under Speed, but the project is at 29.97 fps..

Also the look-ahead for several frames greatly helps reduce dust and scratches.

Did you try applying NV first and then making transitions? I don't think you'll have any more success.

John CB

johnebaker wrote on 2/25/2019, 2:56 PM

@browj2

Hi John

Thanks for the info - I think the page you were looking at is the same one I found yesterday.

. . . . Did you try applying NV first and then making transitions? . . . .

Tried several different ways same result, now using the workaround.

I also found in the NV forums several posts about FCP, Premiere and Edius(?) , which were the result of 'frame server' over running the end of the clip NV was being applied to by a few frames - Radius?

This would give the same effect as I was experiencing, which leads me to ask - is there a potential frame server bug in MEP?

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 2/25/2019, 5:14 PM

@johnebaker

My immense apologies John.

I double checked the top right-hand speaker icon after your first comment and while I had 'Play x one with scrubbing' checked, the other line 'Scrubbing Long' (which I prefer) was not. It escaped my attention I needed both checked.

I feel an idiot.

Sorry.

Thanks for the tip though. Helpful as always.