Prevention of rendered video has fine lines on left of frame

clement5 wrote on 12/21/2013, 11:00 AM

I have a pattern of fine lines on left of rendered frame.  How do I get rid of them other than by cropping.  They do not show up in the preview, and they are not in the original video.  The original video matches the project and the output parameters.  It is coming from the original video, as it is possible to reframe and mask them off.  The aspect ratio is 4:3 on the original video, the project, and the output.  A sample picture of the problem is shown.

Win7, AMD dual core, Movie Edit Pro Plus 2014

Comments

gandjcarr wrote on 12/21/2013, 1:02 PM

Hi,

Why would you not just crop it a little.  This is clearly a old photo/video, and who knows what artifacts are in the frame that you are showing.Is this an old vhs tape, or and old photo?  Either way, just crop it a little and all will be well

George

johnebaker wrote on 12/21/2013, 1:46 PM

Hi

If you have other tapes from the same source  or same age I would recommend you get them digitised as soon as possible.

The effects on the image are a sign of  those caused by loss or dropout of the control track which is used to synchronize the head scan speed and tape speed to the speed of the recording.

A gap in the control track signal of a videotape usually causes a loss of synchronisation and leads to a gap in video and audio until synchronisation is regained - these are the blocks on the left edge of the image.

There is nothing that can be done as this is a sign that the tape is beginning to lose its recorded signal levels and will deteriorate further.

HTH

John

Last changed by johnebaker on 12/21/2013, 1:46 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

gandjcarr wrote on 12/21/2013, 2:49 PM

@John,

Good advice, I was thinking in terms of this one problem, but you actually pointed out a much larger problem with this vintage of video.  Well done sir.

George

clement5 wrote on 12/21/2013, 6:12 PM

I found the problem.  MEP has difficulty when the aspect ratio and number of pixels do not match.  So I just cropped off 8 pixels out of 1448 on the horizontal to make it a perfect 4:3 and then it worked perfectly.  I used VirtualDub for the cropping, as MEP is very balky at certain operations.  The picture is a single frame from an 8mm movie, and NOT a video.  Even when the aspect ratio is correctly specified, MEP sometimes has problems whent he ratios are not standard ones.  This is obviously a bug.  VirtualDub has no problems with ratios that are consistent with the codec.

Since this is NOT a video, it is not a problem with the control track.  Control track problems show up in other ways and not as a pattern of fine lines on one side of the picture.  The picture has resolution of 1448x1080, but the target will be 720P as that matches the resolution of 8mm film.

johnebaker wrote on 12/22/2013, 5:54 AM

Hi

What are you using to capture the 8mm film?

. . . . MEP sometimes has problems whent he ratios are not standard ones.  This is obviously a bug. . . .

That is the point of having standards, deviation from the standards is not the norm so you will often find programs will balk at something unexpected.

John

Last changed by johnebaker on 12/22/2013, 5:58 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

gandjcarr wrote on 12/22/2013, 9:01 AM

Hi,

I would not have used MEP to crop a still image.  I would have used a photo application to do it.  Much more accurate and easier to do.  I use Xara Designer Pro X but you could use photoshop or any number of photo editing apps out there.  This is a pretty amazing photograph and the woman in the photograph could actually benefit by a little crop and zoom.  It reminds me of some of the old pictures I have of my mom when she was younger.  Very well done, and I am happy that you were able to slove the problem.  MEP is not the best application for editing photos, a dedicated photo app is much better.  I still think this picture is incredible.

George

clement5 wrote on 12/22/2013, 9:16 AM

The film was "professionally" captured and returned as 1080P 16:9 25fps.  It had to be turned back to 16fps, as I had requested no pulldown.  MEP is merely used for editing out bad frames, while photoshop CS3 is used to rotoscope out bad noise and smart sharpen the images.  VirtualDub is used along with Neat and DeSpot to remove noise.  There is no single consumer program that can handle all tasks equally well.  Only MEP has problems with odd aspect ratios.  All other programs pass handle them just fine.  The problem happens when the odd ratio is very close to a standard one, but not if they are farther apart.

This is FILM editing, and the individual photo was just excerpted to show the problem.  When there is a problem the length of the lines and spacing varies from scene to scene, so they can't just be simply cropped out.  The cropping had to be done in VirtualDub before editing with MEP.

johnebaker wrote on 12/23/2013, 2:27 AM

Hi

. . . . captured and returned as 1080P 16:9 25fps.  It had to be turned back to 16fps, as I had requested no pulldown . . . .

You have aroused my curiosity      . 

Is there a particular reason why you want this captured film at 16fps?

At some stage pulldown is going to be involved depending on the display device used, for instance  computer displays usually run at 60fps or higher, TV's run at 25, 30, 50, 60, 100 or 200fps

John

Last changed by johnebaker on 12/23/2013, 2:27 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

clement5 wrote on 12/23/2013, 8:56 AM

Unfortunately it costs huge bucks to have an 8mmmovie processed to make it look really good.  There are good outfits that will do state of the art transfers for more modest costs, but the final processing to refocus and remove dirt and other age problems are not available for that price.  I do have software which can remove a lot of noise, and refocus.  In addition I can rotoscope selected sections to remove very bad defects.  A number of good pieces of software require the original frames with NO interlacing or duplicate frames, so the original 16fps is a must for processing.  The final step would be mastering a disc with pulldown.

However many Blu-ray players and all computers can play the original 16fps videos.  I have put some of my videos in MP4 4:3 16fps on a DVD and then played it with my blu-ray player.  The actual capture is at 25fps and the processor can give it to me at that rate with no pulldown.  It takes no time at all to convert it to 16fps using VirtualDub.  It does a direct stream copy with just changing the fps parameter.

So the key to do it yourself processing is an HD transfer with no pulldown.  8mm is capable of 720 vertical resolution, but most processing is best done at higher resolution for minimal artifacts in the final product.  When doing the processing I can also decide how much of the 8mm home movie experience I wish to retain, if any.  I don't mind some slight camera shake, but too much can induce sea sickness.  Full restoration might require a year's time to rotoscope the whole 3 hours.  I am not restoring "The Seventh Seal"!