Soundtrack Maker queries

terrypin wrote on 6/30/2014, 4:39 AM

I've always preferred to add my own music tracks, but this morning started experimenting with the Soundtrack Maker wizard. Perhaps the following queries reflect my unfamiliarity, but I'd appreciate feedback from those with experience of this facility please.

I'll step through this while trying it out.

I select a range (blue) where I want to apply music from the Soundtrack Maker. I click W to start the wizard.

Q1: Why does my current view get changed to the whole movie?

After clicking in the main window and changing my view back again, I select a style, say Relaxed > Jazzy, and place a checkmark in Apply style to selected range.

I note that Set mood change > Position reflects the current position of the orange timeline marker. And the slider and the time numbers in the wizard dialog.

Q2: Why am I allowed to change it (by dragging either) despite having set a range?

The button under the mood list is Preview audio. I click that and listen to the suggested music.

Q3: Why does Position immediately change to zero?

The button is now labelled Stop so I click it to do so. There's a very short 'spit' of noise. It's now labelled Start.

Q4: Presumably that means the same as Preview? IOW, the buttons might have been called Start Preview and Stop Preview instead of having three labels? Or is the music supposed to step through progressively with Start and Stop?

Clicking Start generates an unpleasant burst of noise, longer than above (about 0.3 sec) and simultaneously Position reverts to its original setting at the start of the range. The button changes to Stop (although there is nothing playing). Clicking Stop changes it to Start.

And so on.

Q5: What's going on here please? Looks buggy to me.

Q6: Is there no way to preview the video also while the music plays? (As you can in the Slideshow wizard.)

Edit: I reckon I've answered that one myself thanks. You have to get the result onto the timeline with Generate to assess it, then either Cancel or Apply.

With Position now showing zero, despite the range setting, I'm now uncertain what will happen. Nor whether I need to click Add emotion (and if I do, where it will start.) So I skip that stage and click Generate background music. Music is generated at the start of my chosen range (correctly, despite the Position showing zero before I clicked Generate).

Q7: But why does the music extend well beyond my range?

Q8: With a range selected in the MEP 2014 timeline but the option Apply style to selected range now unchecked, when I click Add emotion the style still gets applied to the range.

Help says:

Add emotion
This button inserts the selected mood at the current position. MAGIX Soundtrack Maker will then suggest a new position for the next emotion by repositioning the position slider.

Q9: Self-explanatory: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/SoundtrackWizard-1.jpg

Q10: Where does a 'New movie' come into it?! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/SoundtrackWizard-2.jpg

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 7/3/2014, 5:32 PM

Hi Terry

These are my observations:

The range you have set - 6 secs - in the images is too short, you need at least 1 - 2mins to get 2 emotions on correctly

Q1 - all times are relative to the start of the emotion when previewing - presumably to allow for noting time of changes in the emotion.

Q2 and 3 - all emotions have an optimal length (variable depends on the emotion) however you are allowed to alter this with a resulting message if you set the length too short or too long.

Q4 - I think this is by design - initially to tell you what the button does, then start/stop - makes sense to me.

Q5 - buggy? I don't think so see above re range selected

Q6 - first part as you have found out, first emotion will start at the beginning of the range if selected or timeline cursor position if no range, you may get warnings if the length is too short or long.

Q7 - see 2, also note the effect of the Auto cut adjustment option

Q8 - was the timeline cursor at the start of the range? Otherwise see Q6. Help is correct.

Q9 - do not appear to be able to reproduce that one.

Q10 - if you look in the Audiotemp folder you will see the audio files for the one movie, if you switch movie the file names have to be changed - the meaasge text is slightly wrong I think it should refer to the audio files not the movie.

I have found a potential bug - can you replicate this -

Use the Soundtrack maker on the first movie but do not generate the track ie you add the emotions but do not apply them or cancel.

Add another movie and try to use the Soundtrack maker again - for me it fails to open.

Go back to movie 1 and the emotion markers are still in movie one and you cannot get the Soundtrack maker dialog back.

HTH

John

terrypin wrote on 7/4/2014, 1:46 AM

Hi John,

Thanks a lot. appreciate your taking the time to step through my lengthy set of queries!

I agree with your overall point. My test sections were clearly much shorter than the wizard expected.

And I also now understand Q1 and Q2 thanks. In contrast to the Slideshow wizard, the Soundtrack wizard uses the timeline for previewing, so I suppose the expansion of the original view to the full movie was a design choice. (I personally find it inconvenient and unnecessary, but it's trivial.)

I've been in touch with Ralf too who got most of the same behaviour as me on the rest and has already started filing bug reports.

Here are some extracts from his couple of replies:

"...already started filing my bug reports [including]
"...the unexpected return of the position control in the dialogue to zero when the audio preview is used."
"...that button and its functions anyway, and you are, of course, right that this is unexpected and inconsistent, especially since the cursor in the arranger doesn't change."
"...[Q9] error message you documented. I'll keep an eye on that. I also got this and it confused me...when experimenting with the feature, but I cannot reliably replicate. Only switching to a completely different musical style got me out of that dead end and enabled me to add music (without closing and re-opening the dialogue)."
" [Q10] Choosing the "New name" option did enable you to proceed further and get the music inserted, right? I believe that worked for me, but I cannot test it now, since I also can't bring up that message at will. So, will also need to keep an eye on that and keep experimenting."

Meanwhile, bottom line for me is that I don't think I'll be using this feature much. Apart from the limited range of music (which is already now in my own My Music library), it's just too tricky to use in its current buggy state. Those consistent noise 'spits' alone are enough to put me off!

I'll stick to importing and adjusting my own tracks.

--------------------

Re your bug, I'm not sure I've properly understood the steps. I set a range of 2 mins, added three Classic emotions, which appeared on the timeline. I didn't click Generate, Apply or Cancel, so the dialog remained open. I then added another movie. But I don't follow "...try to use the Soundtrack maker again - for me it fails to open", as it is already open.

However, if you mean it doesn't work (i.e. no emotions get displayed on the timeline of Movie #2) then yes, I can reproduce that. If so, I'd suggest you let Ralf know asap.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

johnebaker wrote on 7/4/2014, 11:30 AM

Hi Terry

. . . Re your bug . . .

Thanks for testing - you followed my procedure correctly however when I try to open Soundtrack maker it just flashes and closes again presumably because it is already open in the first movie. Will do a little more exploration and let Ralf know if it is a bug.

John

browj2 wrote on 7/5/2014, 1:52 AM

Hi Terry,

Allow me to weigh in a bit on this, even though I'm in a tent trailer, now in Penticton, beside a lake, and I haven't much time to investigate fully on my wife's laptop. The following will hopefully give you an idea as to how Soundtrack Maker uses the music, not answer your questions.

From memory and with a bit of help from MEP and Samplitude Music Studio (I don't have MusicMaker MMM on this machine), MEP Sounndtrack Maker uses an MMM file composed of various OGG files. You can see this in the folder C:\ProgramData\MAGIX\Video deluxe 2014 Plus\Soundtrack Maker Styles where you will find the music files. Under each style, look for a .mmm file. If you had MMM, which I presume that you don't, you would see that it contains a compilation of each of the moods as separate songs. MEP takes the mood that you want from the mmm file and, as far as I can tell, modifies the length by cutting out sections or reducing the number of bars. This means that it cannot get an exact length to fit the length that the user wants, but it tries to come close. It then uses the ending bars to complete the song. If you add in a mood change, the program picks up the appropropriate song, somewhere after the intro and inserts it. Undoubtedly there is some programming involved to do this, but it is not developed enough to give you an exact requested length. I have noticed that sometimes there is not a smooth transition between moods, so this may be a bug. Sometimes there is a slight transition, about half a frame, which makes makes for a smoother mood change.

You can, however, use the audio time stretch (avoid the pitch change) on the compiled file to get the length that you want, so long as you are not too far off of the beat. If you had MMM, then you could play around more, adjusting, adding or removing instruments and voices from the mix.

This leads to the next part. Look at the files included under each style. The OGG files are the music instruments with a beat and you can simply insert them onto a track in MEP and play around with them, and compile your own piece. Each one is designed to be looped, so you can copy a file and place it at the end of the previous one multiple times (Ctrl + left click on the mouse and drag to the right). Wherever you see a file with the same name but followed by A, B, C, ... F, or G, this is the key. Drums and some other instruments don't have keys, so they will not have these. This is the basics of the Soundmaker Styles music.

Below is a screen shot of Samplitude Music Studio with the Sportive (Bigbeat).mmm file loaded.

Slideshow music is different. Each OGG file is a piece of music consisting of one or more instruments, even a whole orchestra. What I do is use an OGG file that suits what I want. Since there are many, I have had more success doing this than using the Soundmaker. But, I do it manually by dragging the files onto the soundtrack, not by using Slideshow Maker. You will notice that each OGG files starts with a digit, like 01, 02, etc. This gives you a progression in a song. I have used the first OGG file followed by the last one where I have short sequences of slides that I want some music for.

I also have other OGG files that I acquired along the way, so I sometimes use these. They can all be shortened of course, and faded in and out, and the length/speed modified.

Finally, I have SonicFire Pro from Smartsound. This is really good. Firstly, the music is royalty free, so once you pay for it, you can use it as you please. Secondly, SonicFire will give you a song the length that you want, with a start and an end, probably even only 6s long. It is much more intelligent than MEP Soundtrack Maker. Unfortunately, there is no plugin for MEP, but you can import a video file from MEP into the standalone program, create your masterpiece, save the MP3 or WAV or other format, and import the resulting file into MEP. In SonicFire, you can simply drag the end to change the length and the song will recompile correctly. You can change moods and add or remove instruments as you see fit. Smartsound has a huge collection of songs that can be purchased. Again, too bad there is no plugin for MEP.

Good luck with the Soundtrack Maker bug chasing and reporting. It would be good if Magix were to improve this feature to be more usable.

So that's it from me. Back to the beach, or rather vineyard visiting; this is the place for wine.

Regards,

terrypin wrote on 7/5/2014, 10:06 AM

Hi John,

You're a long way from home!

Thanks for all that. If I was more into 'synchronised music' I'd consider SonicFire Pro, despite its hefty price tag. But I'm pretty content with rolling my own tracks and not too fussed if a clip changes on the wrong note or beat. I have all the OGG files in my music library, supplementing the thousands of others of various genres.

I use the same DIY approach with the Slideshow wizard, deleting the supplied track before placing on my timeline.

Enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Scenestealer wrote on 7/6/2014, 5:39 PM

Hi Terry

I do not use this feature much but "...the unexpected return of the position control in the dialogue to zero when the audio preview is used." raised my eyebrows! This happens far too frequently in other areas of MEP and has for many versions. The Audio Cleaning window is one, when you are searching for noise samples. The other is the speed change effect where the playback marker shoots back to the start of the movie when play is activated. Note - this is not the bug that we have all experienced where the whole project will only then start playing from the begining- after resetting the play head you can carry on as normal.

The audio cleaning one is similar to the soundtrack maker bug, where the timeline marker stays where you left it but the preview in the window starts from the begining of the movie.

Sure wish they would sort it!

Peter

terrypin wrote on 7/7/2014, 12:58 AM

Hi Peter,

Might be a good idea to let Support know about it while the topic is still ~~hot~~ warm?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Scenestealer wrote on 7/7/2014, 6:30 AM

Just passed it on earlier Terry.

Peter