Thanks Ray - You guys are probably also busy with Christmas and family (very understandable) 😀

My apologies I'll clarify: My original plan was to pick up a bare bones Dell OptiPlex 9020 MT i7-4790 3.60GHz (cheaply) and add my own hardware. These machines are plentiful and would be faster compared to my current system, (see description). However John pointed out an issue (recently discovered with 4th generation chips)?

Here: https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/articles/000057520/graphics/graphics-for-4th-generation-intel-processors.html

And here (posted November 2021): https://www.pcgamer.com/a-security-flaw-leads-intel-to-disable-directx-12-on-its-4th-gen-cpus/

Intel has disabled DirectX 12 support on its 4th generation Haswell processors with onboard graphics due to a security vulnerability. The vulnerability may allow escalation of privilege, or in other words, allow an unauthorized user to perform unwanted actions. 

I only use PCIe Graphics Cards and Sound Cards, (never onboard). And as suggested (unless its clear): I'll try W10 Pro (and) if there's issues with MEP 2016 Plus, I'll go back to W7 Pro. This additional machine will be dedicated to offline Audio and Video editing ... (after activation of course).

I'm missing something? Where/How does John's caution come into the picture?

Thank You - Merry Holidays! 😊

@CarpentersMate @CubeAce

Hi

MEP2016 works fine on Win10 here!

All the best for the season.

Peter

Thank you Peter! (nice to see you again)...

I also found this comment from Tom's Hardware regarding the recent security issue:

"It's only for Intel's graphics driver for the iGPU. Discrete cards from NVIDIA and AMD won't be affected as they don't use Intel's graphics drivers. Presumably, Intel's upcoming discrete Xe cards won't be affected either as they will use a different Intel graphics driver than the iGPU"

If I'm to understand this, it may also point to the difference/clarification I stated as I'll be using PCIe and PCI dedicated cards and disabling 'onboard' in the Bios. Addresses the problem? Are there other cautions to consider?

We should all be shopping for 'Loved Ones' and planning our Holiday meals... If Italian then the 7 fishes? Yes?

Mike 😍

@CarpentersMate @Scenestealer

Hi Mike.

Thanks Ray - You guys are probably also busy with Christmas and family (very understandable) 😀

Not personally Mike, most of that is sorted and the rest will be last minute. We do not have large immediate family.

I wish I was sure what to advise you. As I said , MEP 2016 was before my time and I'm not sure if hardware acceleration was a thing at that point so my main concern would be the power of the processor and the speed of the ram.

My own thoughts if it were me would be to go at least one generation of CPU if not two ahead as Peter has just said it is running well on his machine.

@AAProds (Alwyn) is running MEP 2021 with an i5-7,so a 7th generation processor but has slow exports and I'm not sure how smooth the running of projects is on his machine but he does roughly what you are doing.

So you may get away with running an i5 but I personally think you should go for a later model with faster ram. Either way your video card is only going to be good for running the monitor. I don't think there will be any need to enable or disable a second GPU. I don't think it will make any difference. As I've deliberately copied in Peter and Alwyn I'm hoping their advice will be more applicable than my own which is mainly based on a gut feeling.

Ray.

Hi again Ray - And Thanks Again ...

"So you may get away with running an i5 but I personally think you should go for a later model with faster ram"

Just to be sure, (and sorry to be repetitious), I'm trying to move away from this i5, not salvage it. I dumped enuf into it: video & audio, esata, maxed the ram ... and still too many crashes, the exports are slow, (I've had enuf) 😜

Not trying to make miracles here, just get a freshly formatted machine that will be a little faster with tasks ...thus one of these OptiPlex 9020 MT i7-4790 3.60GHz - there's plenty of them to choose from .. sellin like 'hot cakes' LOL ...

So yeah, I'd keep the i5 OptiPlex 790 for everyday internet stuff, but dedicate another later model OptiPlex 9020 for Video & Audio ... I think we solved the question of the security issue (see above)? Yes?

Thank You - Merry Merry 🤓

Mike

(Alwyn) is running MEP 2021 with an i5-7,so a 7th generation processor but has slow exports and I'm not sure how smooth the running of projects is on his machine but he does roughly what you are doing.

From what I can gather, my i5-750 Lynnfield beast is a Gen 1! 😩It came out in 2009, I set up my machine in 2011. I think the 7th Gen are designated i5-7XXX.

Yes, export times are slow, but I have got into the habit/workflow of doing it overnight for long movies. Editing SD is fine unless using Neat Video, which I disable when doing other editing.

Hi again AAProds

I do appreciate the input ... thank you ...😉

Do you agree the recent security issue regarding 4th generation chipset is 'minimal' considering:

"It's only for Intel's graphics driver for the iGPU. Discrete cards from NVIDIA and AMD won't be affected as they don't use Intel's graphics drivers. Presumably, Intel's upcoming discrete Xe cards won't be affected either as they will use a different Intel graphics driver than the iGPU"

Do you agree an OptiPlex 9020 MT i7-4790 3.60GHz would be an 'upgrade' from an OptiPlex i3 2120 3.30 GHz? (as Ray pointed out)

Thank You - Happy Holidays! 😇

There We Go! 😄

Thank You and Merry Christmas!

@CarpentersMate

Hi Mike

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works -

. . . . Do you agree an OptiPlex 9020 MT i7-4790 3.60GHz would be an 'upgrade'  . . . .

Given:-

. . . . found this comment from Tom's Hardware regarding the recent security issue . . . .

Did not the article say that this affects the Intel 4th generation series ie both i5-4xxx and i7-4xxxx

See this Intel article.

To avoid potential isues with this and Windows 10, which will install Direct X 12, you need a later generation CPU ie 5th as an absolute minimum, or has I previously been mentioned in your topic here.

John EB

Hello John

Thank you for the additional clarification. The sequential (chronological) releases of these processors is complicated and the prevalent information online seems to create contradictions and confusion:

This particular statement would lead one to believe that the i7 is more current and faster:

Is i7 or i5 newer? Intel Core i7 processors are typically faster and more capable than Core i5 CPUs. The latest i7 chips offer up to six cores and 12 threads, making them better suited for advanced multitasking.

While this particular statement would lend credibility that the i5 is the faster and more current:

Generally, among two consecutive generation of Intel’s core series CPUs, the higher end i7 from the older generation has been better than the lower end i5 of the newer one.

In any event (luckily) no I haven't purchased anything yet. Still gathering information as to what's out there and additional hardware I'll need to complete the system ... I will say that of the Dell Optiplex line, specifically the 'Mini Tower', (The Full Sized Beast) is SPACIOUS and the model I can easily work on. But of the ones which contain i5 chips; there is less availability and most of them are those chinsey smaller cases that will not accommodate Full Size PCIe cards (and) the processors are not as fast as the i7's

oh well here we go ...

Thank You

Mike

Happy Holidays!

@CarpentersMate

Hi

. . . . is i7 or i5 newer? . . . .

Neither, this is a distinction between the 'brands'.

The range of 'brands' are i3, i5, i7, and i9. The higher the number the higher the level of performance and/or additional features eg more cores etc.

The Intel naming convention shows that the first number (2 for the 5 digit numbers) after the hyphen is the generation identifier.

For example i5-4690 or i7-4790 are both 4th generation processors. - the i5 and i7 identify the 'brand'. The rest of the processor name is an internal Intel code for the specific features the processor has.

John EB

Thanks John

So yes the i5 should be faster than my current model i3 2120 3.30 GHz

However the search is back on to get a (processor) that's at least equal to my current system: 3.30 GHz

As I mentioned, the 'Pickins' are slim (that's my problem) but at least they appear to be cheaper than the models with the i7...

Mike

@CarpentersMate @johnebaker

the i5 and i7 identify the 'brand'

Perhaps "model" would be better. The brand is Intel.

However the search is back on to get a (processor) that's at least equal to my current system: 3.30 GHz

It appears (not that I am a CPU expert) that the speed number doesn't tell the whole story. The comparison table is quite interesting; you can choose any processor from the two lists to compare:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4790-vs-Intel-Core-i3-3217U/2293vsm1643

In general, I think it is safe to say an i7 is a faster model than an i3.

Thank you AAProds

"it is safe to say an i7 is a faster model than an i3"

With regard to that and the 'security issue', (as John pointed out): it creates a 'Catch 22' (or) an 'injustice' preventing/prohibiting someone from advancing to a faster processor. Has anyone looked further into the issue/comment: "It's only for Intel's graphics driver for the iGPU. Discrete cards from NVIDIA and AMD won't be affected as they don't use Intel's graphics drivers"

The complete discussion is here: Scroll all the way down to ravewulf's comments. The discussion includes remarks that point out; many users disable 'onboard graphics' thus minimizing or preventing the security issue? Am I missing something?

Thank You 😐

@CarpentersMate @AAProds

Choosing a CPU for a given workload is not always straightforward and sometimes gains can be made in one direction over losses in another. Nothing is that self explanatory and may have various factor to consider.

CPU base clock speed and maximum clock speed as well as core counts along with cache levels and sizes, processor die sizes (shorter paths within circuits) memory speed limits the CPU can handle, will vary from CPU to CPU as well as the transistor count (Now into billions) before we even think of whether it has a GPU or not and how the memory gets divided up.

Then it is cost vs performance considerations. Change your program and the balance may tip one way of the other. If I hadn't had the chance of getting an i9900k with a decent motherboard and ram at a lower cost than I could buy separates I would have opted for the i7 which at present seems to be the sweet spot running Win 10 with the current MEP versions. The i9 was possibly overkill but may not be yet unless its GPU becomes less useful over time. My only regret is I couldn't afford a higher end nvidia card at the time but now seems a bargain compared to what I paid for it.

Still if the newer processors now coming out are capable of running more lanes of data it won't be long before the programs take advantage of them. Upgrading if you need to is not cheap. I have only ever upgraded to support new cameras and as long as the parts I have service the newer programs I will continue to upgrade those as well but I would stop at the point where it wouldn't unless a new camera purchase dictated it.

Still, that's me. I am probably not typical. I have some really old other software that still works and have no need to upgrade that yet. Will see what happens when I'm forced to Win 11.

Ray.

Thanks Ray ...

"I have some really old other software that still works and have no need to upgrade that yet"

Well that's exactly why (in my particular case editing SD), I use OS 11 Safari in my older G4's (and stay offline).

Meanwhile Ray: Could you please check out my question previously regarding the security issue?

Thank You 😌

@CarpentersMate

Hi Bob.

There seem to be plenty of articles on the subject such as this one.

I think John's concern is if when you get the new system that it will be MEP 2016 that is not running smoothly for the demand of your particular projects and need to update the program. That could mean having to update windows at which point you would be stuck again. I was lucky as my older software is not video related but does suffer from problems such as not being able to be put onto both of my screens at once as I would have normally used the extra screen space with it. I also had to update my security dongle as the old one wouldn't run on the newer version of Windows. Sometimes there are unseen problems we only find out once the move is made. I was lucky but any update contains risks.

Ray.

@AAProds, @CarpentersMate

Hi Alwyn

. . . . Perhaps "model" would be better. The brand is Intel. . . .

Good point - I was using Intels terminology.

. . . . it is safe to say an i7 is a faster model than an i3 . . . .

As I said previously, the range of 'models' are i3, i5, i7, and i9. The higher the number the higher the level of performance and/or additional features eg more cores etc.

Rays last comment above is spot on.

John EB

@CarpentersMate Hi i can't give you the tech details but if I was you I'd update to the latest Windows & whatever MEP you're using, Windows 7 is so outdated you're surely going to have to update soon,

I've tried a few editing software's recently, MEP uses the most of my machine, so whatever CPU & GPU you buy, get the best you can afford, MEP will make good use of it, Vegas Pro used 30-40% of my PC to render a 25min multi clip project in 14mins 😒, whereas MEP did the same project in 5mins using 80% of my PC's power 👍