Wow! That's a big help - I did not know about highlighting the track, and I guess I'm guilty of sloppy organization. I often place text objects wherever they fit in the project - often sharing a track with photos. Having text on a separate track makes sense.

So I guess that brings up another question (maybe I should post separately?): Is there any best way (professional) to organize my tracks? My projects are often documentary (type) videos with a lot of different content: videos, photos, audio, voice overs, text, templates, etc. Again - I usually use the "where it fits" organizational method, which probably makes things harder. Still a novice at this; just wondering if there is more efficient (smart) way of layering tracks (video on top, photos text, etc)?

Thanks for the help.

@hdrechsel18

Hi

The good thing about Movie Edit Pro in one way is that you can mix audio, video, images titles etc on any track you like, however as you have suggested it can be chaotic.

My preferred 'organisation' and also workflow is:

1. video and images starting on track 1 and for however many more I need for effects like Picture in Picture and Collages - this can be 20+ tracks for some big collages, and I do mix images and video on the same track
2. Titles on the next available track
3. Audio eg background music on the next available track

Example timeline - no titles

HTH

John EB

@hdrechsel18

Hi.

Whereas I just colour code my tracks for each type plus add a track name. You can group them later by adding adjacent tracks and moving them up or down. Putting all the audio together for instance makes using the mixer easier with all active meters next to each other. Do use the single track group mouse mode though and press shift to stop the audio going out of sync. It's not as easy as I make it sound. You may have to ungroup sections to move them. I only rearrange tracks at the end though if I need to. Ie, many audio tracks. I also like my audio separate from the video content on the timeline.

I think we all work slightly differently. Not so much right or wrong, just preferences and perhaps older habits brought across from using other software.

Ray.

@hdrechsel18

Which version are you using?

In MEP2021, an object is selected and you click on the T button (not shortcut) to add text, the text will be placed on the next available track below the selected object. If no object is selected, it puts the text on the next available track at the location of the playback marker. If you also select a track (blue in the track header), the text will be placed on that track, if empty at the location of the playback marker or the selected object. If not empty, it will put the title on the next available track.

However, if you use a template, all bets are off and the title may be put at the end of the timeline if there is no room on the selected track or, for multitrack titles, no room on the other tracks below. There are a few more idiosyncrasies.

Also, this did not always work in previous versions, so if you're not using MEP2021, the text could end up at the end of the timeline depending on the state at the location where you actually wanted the title, as has happened to me many times.

For your second question, I use the following because I have video and audio on separate tracks:

Track 1: Video or photos

Track 2: Audio for video clips

Track 3: Video or photos or other overlay images, sometimes single track titles

Track 4: Audio for video clips

Track 5: Audio - reserved for any audio that MEP might import with certain effects (some Image objects come with a sound) or music or sound FX from under the Audio tab (purchased content)

Track 6: Narration

Track 7: Music

Tracks 8 to 10: Multi-track titles (some require 4 tracks)

Tracks 11 onwards - overlays

I have coloured tracks and I have the names of the tracks in the track headers. I saved this as a template and then open it when I want a new project, do a save as with the name of the new project, then change the name of the Movie tab.

As well, I have the same template saved as a Movie (MVD file). If my project requires more than one movie, I import the template movie and change the Movie title in the tab. Thus I get my set up in a new Movie.

Other people have other ways. You will have to do some thinking about what you want and need.

John CB

Thanks guys - great suggestions, and it's always good to see how other users work.

John - Question: I notice on the sample screen you posted that your audio tracks are automated (volume). Do you prefer to do this with the mixer automation? I usually display the volume curve on an audio track, place my markers, then pull down / or move up as needed. For some reason, I found it easier than using the mixer automation. Just a matter of preference?

Thanks all again. Every little bit I learn helps.

John (CB): I am using Movie Edit Pro Premium 2020.

Thanks

@hdrechsel18

Honestly, I never use volume automation with the Mixer; I just show people that it exists and how to do it.

I do use object volume curves a lot because if I have to move the object, the volume curve comes with it. I was always putting on points and dragging them up or down, but now I mostly switch the mouse mode to Draw as it's much quicker than placing a few points and dragging them. If you don't like what you drew, just draw over it again.

I use track volume curve rarely except for damping (ducking).

John CB

@hdrechsel18

Hi

. . . . audio tracks are automated (volume). Do you prefer to do this with the mixer automation? I usually display the volume curve on an audio track, place my markers, then pull down / or move up as needed . . . .

I used the same method as you do - it is easier (IMO) - when not recording narration.

For recording narration I would use Automatic volume reduction of other audio tracks (ducking) to start with then adjust the relative levels later.

John EB

@hdrechsel18

Hi.

Mixing audio in MEP is the most frustrating part for me. I would prefer to use the controls in the mixer and automate from there but the lag between control movement and hearing the alteration is way too slow to be accurate. Lowering the audio buffers in MEP is too detrimental to the sound output and although there is latency adjustment built into MEPs ASIO driver it is not accessible from within MEP itself. It is a very good and efficient driver, just not set up correctly in my opinion. It works amazingly well within Cubase. There I can use huge buffers with no latency.

So that leaves me with drawing automation when I would prefer to do this type of thing in real time. There is also no control automation I can find on effects controls. Also limiting, at least for me. Again, old habits. 😉

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

What do you mean by "control automation ... on effects controls?" Can you give an example?

I find no difficulty mixing in MEP/VPX. Automation during playback is problematic and it's not because of the lag between control movement and hearing the alteration, it's between my hearing and the hand - by the time I hear the audio, I'm too late. Of course, watching the waveform on the timeline should give me advance warning that I should raise or lower the volume. I think this applies to all audio programs. So, I do it manually.

The only thing that I would like to have is VST's capability on objects.

John CB

I tried the "ducking" feature a couple times, but wasn't happy with the way it sounded - a little too mechanical - but maybe a little more tweaking would have helped. For some reason, I get intimidated using a USB mic in front of my project (lol). I tend to make a LOT of mistakes lol.

What I do now: I use a Zoom Q3 - it's a wonderful little device, because it has an AUX input. In my home studio, I'm using an MXL-V67 mic into a Behringer mixer, which allows me to get a nice, warm sound sent to the Q3. Then I pull the .wav files off the card, and import into MEP. I can then edit (chop and place) the narrative as needed. I'll use some Audio Cleaning for EQ and compression, and I think it works pretty good for my needs.

Using the Volume Curve to automate the audio give me a more "musical" ducking result (IMO).

Thanks

@hdrechsel18

For ducking, as John EB mentioned, you may have to modify the points a bit.

I do my narration straight into MEP (actually VPX). For my tutorials, I make a script, then try to capture whatever is required to follow the script, find that the script is wrong, change the script, capture more, make a rough cut on the timeline, then start narration, turning off playback while recording. I'm watching the script, not the screen. I can record 2 to 4 sentences without blowing it. Often that is not the first take. Sometimes I'll try 10 times to get a short sentence correct. Along the way, I annotate the script with changes as some things didn't work, or I didn't like phrase or word, then update the Word document at the end. Once most narration is done, I edit the timeline to suit the narration. This often requires inserting stills, capturing video again, changing and adding narration, etc. It's an iterative process. The big trick is to make it sound like you're not reading a script. And, try to write like you would speak, not like you would write. Then, there are plosives and sibilants to fix up, breathes, mouth clicks, dog barking, a big truck goes by, etc. It ain't easy.

For travel videos, I'll write up some text and record it at the correct locations on the timeline. If I have music or audio with video, I'll duck over the length of the recorded narration. It's important trim the narration to get the ducking to work with the narration.

The biggest problem with a project that has original audio with video, narration, and music, is getting a consistent overall volume. Some of the songs from Magix come in much louder than others. I use the YouLean Loudness Meter 2 (free version) to get a digital reading of the volume (LU and LUFS) and peaks, and then make appropriate adjustments. The final adjustment is what sounds good.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

It certainly isn't normal to suffer lag between a MIDI command and the response from the audio. You can achieve latency of zero when set up properly or how do you record midi instruments real-time with any degree of accuracy when multitracking?

The same goes for mixer controls. They should respond to the millisecond. All adjusting the latency settings does is delay the visual graphics of the program until it matches the timing of the sound output.

Even at the start of the vst implementation, latency was never really an issue. Looking at waveforms is OK if you are only looking at transients. looking at the waveform for a passing vehicle for instance would be much more difficult. You are only thinking volume but panning and placing a sound effect within a field of view for instance is lot more tricky to deal with. I have a midi controller that has 8 rotary controls that could replace the main faders or other mixer controls if they could be mapped.

Because you can't map MIDI control channels means you are stuck with only being able to adjust a few parameters when there are at least 64 MIDI channels to choose from that could be assignable and routed to something that could take control of the mixer as an external MIDI controller.

Please don't get me wrong. It is what it is.

For the cost of the program, the basics are probably reasonable. I just wish I could access the latency compensation of the ASIO driver within MEP.

It could however cause havoc on less powerful systems and could be why it isn't included.

Audio, for some reason beyond me, is much more of a problem than dealing with video. That is true of most Video Editors. MEP is not alone in that respect. Perhaps if MEP could use an external audio usb or internal sound card, that may be able to be addressed. But then nothing is mentioned in the manual about using MEP or VPX with additional sound chips or cards.

The reason you are probably too late with the mixer controls is not your reflexes but the command lag in the controls. It can be, and often is, over a second long.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Was that your answer to what you meant by "control automation ... on effects controls?"

MEP does not do MIDI, thus no MIDI controls. VPX has MIDI Time Control only, but that is for linking to Samplitude using LoopBe1 to be able to edit in the DAW and the video editing whilst in sync.

As for zero latency, I think that that is pretty much impossible, and latency always seems to be a problem with DAWs. The signal has to travel through the system and that takes time. In DAWs we try to reduce latency as much as possible, but video programs are not DAWs and we're not doing studio recordings of musical instruments (except for filming). For that, we would use a DAW. Don't compare what one normally does in a DAW with what one could and would do in the video editor.

For example, I would never use the video editor to mix a bunch of musical instruments recorded separately.

I would not use a DAW to mix the audio from the video recording with a music track, nor would I use a DAW to mix the video audio with narration. MEP/VPX does this very well.

Speaking of using a DAW, did you ever watch my tutorial on using MEP with Music Maker?

My point about doing Mixer audio automation - adjusting the volume while playing back - is difficult because by the time I hear that I should make an adjustment to the volume and my brain processes that information and sends a signal to my finger to move the slider, it's already too late. That is my latency and that is why I said that watching the waveform allows me to predict that I should probably get ready to move the slider and my brain has time to process the information and tell my finger to move the slider. Any latency in the program is the least of my worries.

Of course, audio automation would work for me for ducking as I can see on the timeline that the narration is coming up and I can lower the volume of the music before the narration starts, then raise it when the narration is over. However, I find the Damping tool sufficient for most cases.

I use an M-Audio M-Track interface that comes with its own ASIO driver. It works fine with MEP/VPX.

I don't use the ducking feature for audio recording as I find that it's premature, I don't want to have to modify the track volume if I mess up a recording, a frequent occurrence.

The reality is that pretty much no matter what we do, the final mix is done in the video program. Parts may be better produced in a DAW (like a musical production), but I am not going to use a DAW to process a song that I purchased from somewhere - someone already did this. In the video program, I adjust the volume of the song to fit my mix - other audio, narration and sound effects. I think that this applies to most users. And, no matter what, the final product comes from the video editor.

John CB

@CubeAce

I just did a test in VPX for volume automation. I don't notice any lag between me moving the slider and the points on the volume curve. However, you are right about the lag of about a second before hearing the result.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

There won't be a lag in what you see. It's the audio lag afterwards that I've been mildly moaning about for a long time. When you alter a slider is not the point in time you see in the editor when it is applied. The graphics within the whole editor are ahead of the sound. It should be able to be corrected. The ability is there in the driver if it were accessible but I understand for some it could present more problems regarding system specs and the extra processing power needed. In truth any reasonably new nvidia card with 4GB or ram should be able to cope with that with processing room to spare.

That and the lack of automation flexibility which I accept as being just one of those things although there could be ways around both problems by perhaps rendering the video down to one track first with a low resolution video file and allowing the program then to concentrate on the audio mix-down. Like having a dedicated workspace. Essentially it's what I can do in Cubase. Separate the audio track from the video and add tracks individually and play the video in a smaller monitor within Cubase. Not ideal as the tracks have to start off dry (no additional processing) and be individually exported from MEP as full project length files to stay in sync.

I suspect because this program was never expected to be used with hardware in a studio environment and interacting with any external hardware that it has never been a priority for MAGIX to allow this.

As I said, it is what it is. Just mildly annoying from my perspective and probably irrelevant as most people would never have had the chance to experience anything else to notice or see what a difference it makes.

Ray.

@browj2

Hi John.

Sorry I missed your previous comments.

Vst is based around midi. All those plug-ins are vsts. Moving a slider or circular knob is a midi command. Any vst effect, mixer element, or instrument can be controlled by an external midi controller if the program allows it.

Equally on professional mixing desks the midi is two way, moving motorised controls to the recorded information. whether that is to video effects or audio.

Zero latency is not impossible. In fact you can alter audio latency to be ahead of what you see and is just as annoying.

I have never used Magix audio programs so don't know it's limitations but it is not a limitation of ASIO and the vst implementation.

I have zero latency problems with Cubase and I can import the video and separate the audio but it's more than a couple of extra steps to do and quite frankly the extra time needed it is easier to put up with the limitations within MEP or VPX.

I am not confusing DAWS with video editing programs. It is a matter of cost verses practicality and individual need. It's probably why Adobe Premier Pro is so widely used for those where production integration is a priority and can afford it.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I test out Samplitude Pro X3 for volume automation using the mixer. I hear the volume changes instantly. Big difference from VPX.

Magix should do some work on the audio part to fix up that latency at the very least - and add VST capability to objects.

That said, I still would not be likely to use volume automation in MEP or VPX.

John CB