Black area

derek-williams wrote on 7/26/2020, 2:40 PM

Hi. I sectioned similar video scenes into one. It looks fine during the editing process.

But when I upload it and view it, there is a black box where the sectioned video was placed. Here is what I did.

1. Checked to make sure the video wasn't on mute

2. Made sure both videos were on the highest visability

3. Played around with the settings in the "section" section.

 

 

Here is another example. The black spot is at the bottom this time.

Am I doing something wrong, and/or how can I do it correctly.

 

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 7/26/2020, 3:16 PM

@derek-williams

Hi

. . . . sectioned similar video scenes into one . . . .

Can you post a screenshot of the timeline showing the objects where the black box appears - click the small square indicated below to make the timeline full screen and zoom in horizontally and/or vertically to make the objects as big as possible maintaining all occupied tracks in the image - to return to normal timeline size click the indicated square again.

What was the recording device used to take the video?

Looking at the timeline pictures in your previous post, I see at least one video clip has the Chromakey Green (Green box) effect applied to it, is there a Chromakey effect, or any other effects, apart from Section, applied to the sectioned clip as well?

John EB

 

Lateral thinking can get things done!

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Running Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, 3 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60GB internal SSD, + 6 ext backup HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

derek-williams wrote on 7/26/2020, 6:14 PM

Hi, Thanks for responding.

The black box (part) appears throughout the whole video when uploaded (do you still need to see a timeline pic?). This is my 3rd different time doing this with 3 different videos, and the end result is the same. The total video is only 5-10 seconds, as I was trying out something new for a movie I was creating with my kids.

I used a digital camera, probably 6-8 years old to do the recording.

I didn't use a Chromakey effect (or anything else) with this effect with this video.

johnebaker wrote on 7/27/2020, 3:58 AM

@derek-williams

Hi

. . . . do you still need to see a timeline pic? . . . .

Yes please, as they say 'a picture is worth a thousand words' ie it contains a lot more detail about the layout of the objects etc and may indicate what the issue is?

. . . . I used a digital camera, . . .

Which make/model?

John EB

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX 12, MEP Premium 2021, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2021.

Running Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, 3 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60GB internal SSD, + 6 ext backup HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

derek-williams wrote on 7/27/2020, 12:41 PM

Hi. The digital camera is Samsung Schneider - KREUZNACH. Like I said it's probably 8 years old. I like to use it because it has cool filters on it.

I was just experimenting with the technique, so I didn't save it. But here is another version I did. I hope these are the pics you requested. I'm sorry if not, I'm still new at this.

(1) overall timeline (2) close up of editing page video screen (3) timeline only (4) close up of timeline (5) final upload playback video. The black box is on the top right.

 

johnebaker wrote on 7/27/2020, 1:34 PM

@derek-williams

Hi

Can you post Image 4 again with the timeline zoomed in the horizontal so the objects fill the timeline pane to give a more width please so the headers, indicated in the example below, show all the text present and can be read easily.

Also check if there is any object on the tracks below track 20.

Added: - the camera video is 'standard' mp4, 720p AVC /h.264 video and AAC audio codecs so they is not an issue.

John EB

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/27/2020, 1:40 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX 12, MEP Premium 2021, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2021.

Running Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, 3 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60GB internal SSD, + 6 ext backup HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

derek-williams wrote on 7/28/2020, 11:05 AM

Thanks for your information and patients. I hope this screenshot works for you. And there are no objects below track 20.

CubeAce wrote on 7/28/2020, 11:40 AM

@derek-williams

Hi Derek.

I think what John needs is a more expanded view to be able to see frames and if any, waveforms, like this example, only more zoomed in so that anything written in the tracks can be read as well.

It can then help make more sense of what we see in the final video clip.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 7/28/2020, 11:46 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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derek-williams wrote on 7/28/2020, 12:16 PM

CubeAce wrote on 7/28/2020, 12:53 PM

Hi Derek.

I think that is spot on. Lets see what John makes of it.

All I can see is that in your original images you gave of the problem, is that the missing segment doesn't match the inserted clip size.

I think this is why John may think there was something on a track further down.

Have you tried to do a new project from scratch with the same clips?

 

Ray.

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 20H2 OS build 19042.602. Direct X 12. Bios version 1401 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives. Page file space 4.75GB.

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derek-williams wrote on 7/28/2020, 1:00 PM

Hi Ray. Yes, this is my 4th time doing it with the same results. I first tried it in the middle of the movie first I was creating. The last 3 times I created new movies and video clips for all of them, and nothing has changed no matter where or how I section it. I noticed the size difference too. One of the clips I did a horizontal section, and the bottom was black. I tried to move all the movies down to make it work, but nothing changed.

 

derek-williams wrote on 7/28/2020, 1:05 PM

I'm going to try it with an updated digital camera, and see if that is the bug.

CubeAce wrote on 7/28/2020, 2:11 PM

@derek-williams

Hi Derek.

I haven't ever tried to do this and have tried to follow the thread as much as I can.

So the following advice is just based on what it looks like. Not necessarily what it is so you can ignore the advice below completely if I'm wrong.

I know you had the camera tripod mounted. but it looks like if the camera had a zoom lens that between takes it shifted focal length slightly and that the camera moved slightly between takes. Possibly when using the record start stop button. If that is the case then it is almost impossible to realign convincingly in post production. Any size alteration will make lining things up, like the swings support struts vary in width within the depth of field. They will never match up despite anything you try.

The camera must not move between takes. Normally this means a very sturdy tripod and solid mounting plate assembly if you don't have a remote start stop system even if you try to be as light as you can when pressing record on or off. the best thing is to do one take of both parts and then edit it down to two clips. That should ensure non movement of the camera or accidental alteration of the focal length.

That in turn will make the editing of clips a lot easier.

Having said all of that I will try over the next day or so to do a similar project and see if I get similar problems and share any further thoughts.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 7/28/2020, 2:13 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1

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CubeAce wrote on 7/28/2020, 3:10 PM

@derek-williams

Hi Derek.

I just took my own advice above and gave it a quick go. First apologies for the ugly looking guy in the video. No-one should be forced to look at that 😆. Second you will notice a slight rippling in the focus during the clip. That's my fault as I stupidly left the camera on auto focus instead of fixing a focus point. Other than that it went OK. I used the NewBlue Elements Split screen to separate the two cropped halves of the clip. There is no other editing or effects used.

Here are my settings using Movie Edit Pro Premium.

 

and end result.

 

You may have to play around with the position of the central split and amount of feathering needed but other than that it is quite straightforward. The right hand side is track 2 and the track that the split screen effect is applied to.

Your current camera should work fine for this if you keep it simple. Mine was done with a little action camera placed on an upside down plant pot.

Ray.

 

Last changed by CubeAce on 7/30/2020, 3:48 AM, changed a total of 6 times.

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 20H2 OS build 19042.602. Direct X 12. Bios version 1401 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives. Page file space 4.75GB.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel DCH 630 Graphics .Driver version 27.20.100.8935, with 32GB of 2133MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB SSD D: drive for current project. 1 x 320gig Toshiba M2.1 drive for Operating System. + x2 WD BLACK 2TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.I for internal backup and 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills. Total 8TB of three external WD drives for backup.

Gigabyte NVIDIA G Force GTX 1650 Super . nVidia driver version 27.21.14.5206 : 1280 CUDA cores Direct X 12. Memory interface 128bit Memory bandwidth 192.03GB/s 4GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x16 Gen3.

Running MEP Premium 20.0.1.65. and VPX 17.0.3.68 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

johnebaker wrote on 7/28/2020, 3:48 PM

@derek-williams

Hi

Both sets of images clearly showed what I was looking for - nothing odd happening there.

What happens if you do the same in a new project but switch the sectioned clip so it is on the left - does the black area move with it?

Can you also post a screen shot of the Section dialog, ie the one shown below, showing what settings have been used on the clip it has been applied to.

John EB

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX 12, MEP Premium 2021, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2021.

Running Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, 3 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60GB internal SSD, + 6 ext backup HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

derek-williams wrote on 7/29/2020, 6:34 AM

Hi, Thanks everyone for the help. I'll be busy with work and vacation prep the next few days, but I'll try your advice and give an update ASAP. To Ray, that looks good and I'll try the New Blue Elements. To answer your question, the video was all in one shot, without me pushing stop. My kids did one part and moved to the other part of the yard in one continuous shot, so I had minimal, if any camera movement. To John, I did try switching it. The way the scene was done, I had to section it horizontally, and not the top right. I'll attach a pic.

I will also try my older version of Movie Edit Pro to see if the problem persists. Thanks again and an update will be sent within a few days.

The above picture is the result when I sectioned the other video, with the black area on the bottom now.

browj2 wrote on 7/29/2020, 8:44 AM

@derek-williams

Hi,

It's not clear to me what you are doing. I gave you links in another thread on how to use the Section feature and how to use a mask. I also showed the timeline of me twice using a mask.

Section is a cropping feature. I would not use it at all for what you seem to be trying to do. Use masks.

I have another tutorial showing several masks for masking different quadrants.

John CB

John C.B.

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johnebaker wrote on 7/29/2020, 10:28 AM

@derek-williams

Hi

. . . .John, I did try switching it. The way the scene was done, I had to section it horizontally . . .

I assume the black area at the bottom of the image is the result.

Can post an image of the Section dialog as I asked for please.

John EB

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/29/2020, 10:28 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX 12, MEP Premium 2021, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2021.

Running Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, 3 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60GB internal SSD, + 6 ext backup HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

derek-williams wrote on 7/30/2020, 2:51 PM

Hi Everyone, Thanks again for all your help. Like I said before, I'm kind of a newbie, so I hope my ignorance and lack of understanding isn't too annoying. Anyway, here is an update. I did the effect with my previous version of Magix from way back in the day. I wasn't perfect with anything, as I was just trying it out. And it came out how I wanted it more or less with no black area. BTW I'm still trying out all of your advice(s), but some things don't make sense, so I'm trying to google and/or youtube your ideas.

derek-williams wrote on 7/30/2020, 7:12 PM

So I was able to do the effect side by side like Ray (CubeAce). I tried to upload the brief video, but not sure if it went through. I can do the effect on an earlier version of Magix. But this version is still giving me a black box when I try to put the effect in the top right corner. I may just have to shoot the scene at a different angle.

PS - Sorry you have to look at my ugly ass too.

 

CubeAce wrote on 7/31/2020, 6:31 AM

@derek-williams @johnebaker

First apologies. I have tried to copy John CB into this reply but it is not taking.

Hi Derek.

The video is showing fine at my end.

No-one is in a rush here although I notice in your images you supplied for John EB there is no track with a mask in it between the two clips used as was instructed to do in John CBs' second tutorial.

But about my personal problems with John CBs' tutorials. Not that either will not work, both methods do work but not as well as with using the New Blue Elements split screen effect in this instance in my opinion.
The reasons why I think this I will explain as I go along.

I did try the initial method that John CB asked you to try but it had a couple of problems that were not addressed in Johns' tutorial. It was not a problem for Johns' tutorial as it worked for him as planned.
In fact both methods worked well on John CBs examples where two different takes were used and shot at different times and locations.
However.
Both methods have a few shortfalls for what you are trying to do with your project that make it slightly less desirable in this instance in my opinion.
The main one being the hard edge at the crossover point that gives rise to several complications that can be overcome better up to a point using the New Blue Elements split screen effect.

So using either method of Johns examples ends up with this main problem. Loosing any portion of the subject matter that slightly goes further than the crossover point between takes.

But Johns' second method produced a further problem. Which was producing the png. file.
Not having Johns' program to produce it I used Microsoft paint as I often do for masks of different types but had not tried PNG files marked as " ****_alpha.png "

The problem was it didn't automatically apply an alpha mask when placed on a track within MEP. (I assume because paint is not a photo or web based app and could not write the correct 'header' for the file. I may be wrong, but either way it didn't work).

Subsequently, if you don't know why producing the file didn't work or how to correct it within MEP, you can no longer follow the rest of the procedure which pretty much stops there anyway and may end up with the person following the tutorial wondering what went wrong. Particularly if they don't understand that the alpha mask is a Chroma key applied effect within MEP.
 
So I had to use the Chroma Key plug-in manually and it applied the Alpha channel the wrong way around, so the two sliders had to be adjusted to new positions as well to get the correct transparency.

In truth though, this is possibly not a foreseeable problem if you have never encountered it by only using programs capable of producing the correct type of png file.
This might have been at the base of your problem or something similar although I suspect the missing alpha mask track in your example images could also be a reason.  
The second problem if one is not careful or a mistake is made in the shooting of the clip, the hard edge of the mask using this method produces more problems.
Any part of the subject you want in the frame that wanders to the other side of the mask position is abruptly cut off.

That is more easily rectified using the New Blue effect where there is a feathering control and if needed allowing some bleed-through to the other side of the internal effects mask that is presumably applied,
the split point can be more easily moved with the timeline to the left or right using the Key frame editor along with the controls within the New Blue Effect.
That can save a poorly placed subject within the take up to a point but is not a cure-all or a replacement for good planning of positioning subjects within the frame.

Now come all the warnings and problems.
None of which have anything to do with MEP but without some additional guidance you may find the results disappointing.

You need to use as many manual settings as possible that your camera can handle.
Also. Make sure you know where the left and right half boundaries are when you shoot or you will loose your intended subjects to be shown within the movie as it crosses the 'central' boundary.

So, why manual settings?
First, deal with the focus. Some cameras will 'pulse' on auto focus briefly enlarging the image slightly and then shrinking back. This will be noticed at the crossover point between the two frames as will all defects in the shot.
Use single focus, not auto or continuous, and select a spot about a third of the way into the distance and use a large aperture on the lens if using a largish sensor. (four thirds upwards. Maybe even a half inch sensor.)
So even using say a 24mm lens the aperture should be at least f5.6 upwards depending on light conditions and frame exposure times. A full frame sensor (35mm) may need f7.1 or more).
You could if you know how, use a wider aperture along with a hyper-focal distancing focal point but that's another subject.
Generally speaking the wider the field of view the smaller an aperture you can use, up to a point.
Also remember you can't make the frame exposure time longer than the time needed to get the desired amount of frames per second you shoot at.
Second, lock off your exposure and white balance or the left side of the frame when combined could have a different exposure and colour balance to the right side of the frame.

Last but not least, try to keep the combined shot less than a few minutes in total duration. This reduces the chances of exposure differences due to drifting clouds and sun movement.
Try to pick a time with least wind when outside to try to reduce unwanted background movements of other objects that may cross the left / right boundary or they will not align.
Unwanted background movement can ruin this type of sequence making it look less believable.

MEP is a wonderful post-production tool but the results can only be as good as the images we feed it. As with general photography and maybe more so with video.
If you get it right in camera first the the results will always be better than a ton of additional post processing and easier and quicker to produce a desired effect.

To this end I've put up an unedited video of how I used the New Blue Split screen effect and why I prefer its use in this instance.
Because of the nature of the video, this one is possibly best viewed in full screen mode on YouTube and goes through the points I mentioned above.
I Don't do the tutorial videos that some of the others do here and the video is done in one take unedited, so please forgive me for a few pauses and vocal stutters while I try to explain in real time as to what I'm doing.

I hope it helps a bit and doesn't add to your confusion.

I've Also edited this post a total of 13 times to tidy up my explanation and changed some of the images above to give better explanations of the problems. I'm finished updating this post now.

Ray.

 

Last changed by CubeAce on 7/31/2020, 7:21 AM, changed a total of 13 times.

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1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB SSD D: drive for current project. 1 x 320gig Toshiba M2.1 drive for Operating System. + x2 WD BLACK 2TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.I for internal backup and 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills. Total 8TB of three external WD drives for backup.

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M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

derek-williams wrote on 7/31/2020, 9:45 AM

Update: Thanks to everyone who gave me the time of day and was patient with my ignorance. I learned a lot by reading your suggestions. So while researching about adding plug-ins, I saw the update button. I updated everything and that fixed the problem. There is no more black box with anything, and I tried several angles. I hope I didn't waste too much of your time. Thanks again!!!!

CubeAce wrote on 7/31/2020, 10:49 AM

@derek-williams

Hi Derek.

For me personally it wasn't a problem and made me delve into something I hadn't yet tried. I found the whole thing interesting and maybe one day useful. Good luck with your project. I'm always up for a challenge.

Just out of interest, what did you manage to update within MEP that you didn't previously have?

Ray.

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 20H2 OS build 19042.602. Direct X 12. Bios version 1401 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives. Page file space 4.75GB.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel DCH 630 Graphics .Driver version 27.20.100.8935, with 32GB of 2133MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB SSD D: drive for current project. 1 x 320gig Toshiba M2.1 drive for Operating System. + x2 WD BLACK 2TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.I for internal backup and 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills. Total 8TB of three external WD drives for backup.

Gigabyte NVIDIA G Force GTX 1650 Super . nVidia driver version 27.21.14.5206 : 1280 CUDA cores Direct X 12. Memory interface 128bit Memory bandwidth 192.03GB/s 4GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x16 Gen3.

Running MEP Premium 20.0.1.65. and VPX 17.0.3.68 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

johnebaker wrote on 7/31/2020, 1:48 PM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . I notice in your images you supplied for John EB there is no track with a mask in it between the two clips used as was instructed to do in John CBs' second tutorial. . . . .

There is no need for a mask using the Section technique - set the section correctly and you can position over the top of a full screen video to get a split screen effect as seen in the exapmle below

Timeline

Preview monitor

The black images form the horizontal and vertical dividers.

John EB

.

 

 

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX 12, MEP Premium 2021, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2021.

Running Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, 3 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60GB internal SSD, + 6 ext backup HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.