Hi Ray. Thanks for jumping in.

Yep. I checked. All of the details are reported as being however it's specified in the MEP export settings. It's 30fps (29.97 in source, and in output) footage, but every 2 or three frames are duplicates of the previous frames. The project is set at 29.97. The source video is 29.97 and the various export formats I tried were all 29.97.

If you're not looking for it carefully, you can easily miss it. Thinking your footage is good to go. But it isn't. The only way to be sure is to step through the frames in your output (or input, in the preview window), and you'll see duplicated frames, totaling 10 for every thirty frames imported or rendered.

I've got 20+ years of commercial IT troubleshooting experience. I'm meticulous. The fact that I couldn't replicate this with any other industry standard video editing program is what threw me. That and the fact that I assumed that if MEP can handle 8K, surely 4K 100Mpbs should be easy. Whatever the issue's heart is, it's happening on import of the source media. Any preview settings in MEP (things like dropping frame rates, reducing resolution, scrubbing) have no effect. And it has this fault with pristine, clean installs of MEP. I've just purchased it, knowing it's solved enough for me - but I can repeat this fault all day and night. A friend with MEP 2019 (the older rendering engine) has exactly the same issue on his installation.

It does it on a 2 second clip or a 2 minute clip. The fact that I can replicate this on different systems with known pristine hardware and software configs means, as far as I'm aware, that this isn't just me. I've had other eyes on this problem too. All smart experienced folk. Same conclusion.

@K-Wood

Does this only happen to the 4K 29.97 fps 100mbps files or does it effect all frame rates and bit rates from your Osmo Action?

I'm asking because I don't see this in my exported files from my Osmo Pocket which will only give the full 100mbps secs at certain frame rates and resolutions. The files are VBR.

Can I ask what export settings you are using and which export method?

Is it possible to give screen shots of your export settings?

Ray.

@K-Wood @CubeAce

Hi

Are we talking about actual 4K 4096 x 2160 original and export or just UHD 3840 x 2160?

Some Media Info here would be good to see.

UHD 100Mbps @ 25fps is fine here.

Hi Scenestealer,

Originally we were talking about UHD 100Mbps 3840 x 2160 @ 29.97fps. I also found the same issues with high bitrate files in other lower resolutions as well. Frame rate (higher and lower) made zero difference. But, for the purposes of fault finding, I restricted my efforts to (what I call 4K), UHD 3840 x 2160 from the DJI Osmo Action.

A few things of note here:

1. Bear in mind, no other editing program flinched or had a single issue with these exact same files.

2. The Osmo Actions I'm using are all on the exact same standardised settings, nothing exotic. And they all have the same latest firmware. So, files from multiple Osmo Actions from different build batches. So that should rule that out as a contaminent.

3. I'm flat out making a living at the moment, but I'll take the time on the weekend to fire up some basic, small test files and upload them to a g-drive so that others can go "yep, they're doing what he said they were doing". Happy to do it. But I didn't post here to prove a point. I posted here because of Note No.4, below.

4. I only posted here because I just can't believe that nobody else has come across this before, especially given that MEP 2019 also does the exact same thing as MEP 2021. It would have saved me a ton of time if I'd have read the first post in this thread.

5. I was a senior software engineer. I get it that you have to be able to replicate a bug in order to fix it. Right now, that's not my priority. Bills to pay and all that. Come the weekend, I'll post the files required to prove what anyone with an Osmo Action can prove right now. If you're not experiencing this issue. I'm amazed, but I don't doubt you. But if you're pulling out your hair and ready to delete MEP 2021 from your SSD, maybe my first post might get you to reconsider.

Peace and love to all,

K.

We discovered the actual pre-edit step in our footage prep that ultimately leads to the issue of frame dropping in MEP.

Important back story -
DJI Osmo Action cameras split a video over multiple smaller clips. It's an inbuilt limitation of the devices.
These multiple clips can have a sound sync issue if you don't first join them into one file, using MP4Joiner or whatever else works for you.

We use Powerdirector to join these files (using its SRVT MP4 output) because it's insanely fast and we've never had a problem with the output. It's an exact match of the input clips, just without the joins.

That is, until we started a 3D project for a client, and evaluated MEP 2021 Premium for its ease of multi-cam 3D support.

So, cutting to the chase. Here are the conditions to guarantee frame dropping in MEP 2021 -

1. Have a single 8gb clip as your source media (created from another editor, by joining DJI Osmo Action files with 100Mbps bitrate in that editors output profile).
2. Add that clip to your MEP timeline.
3. Step frame-by-frame through the clip. See the dropped frames? Dropping 10 out of every 30, like clockwork.
4. With or without any edits in MEP, if you export from MEP, the output will drop the exact same frames that the preview was dropping. Even on a 2 second exported clip.

Workarounds-
Import a much smaller file into MEP. 500mb clips at 100Mbps don't have the issue.
Or, reduce the bitrate when you join the DJI Osmo Action files. 50Mbps seems safe.
Or, import the numerous Osmo files directly into MEP. But then you run into the drifting audio sync issues (which is a DJI issue and not any other editors issue).

We learned-
Not to import UHD 8gb files into MEP, unless they're less than 100Mbs.
And to do a quick frame-by-frame examination of ALL imported media. If frames are dropping, lower the source medias bitrate (using another program) and try to import it again.

Given Covid, this doesn't even rate as a first-world problem. But by it being posted here, someone else with specialist needs might use my experiences to expedite them finding a solution to a similar problem.

Peace and Love,
K.

@K-Wood

Hi

. . . . Originally we were talking about UHD 100Mbps 3840 x 2160 @ 29.97fps. I also found the same issues with high bitrate files in other lower resolutions as well . . . . the drifting audio sync issues (which is a DJI issue . . . .

@Scenestealer and I have no issues with 4K UHD video import at 100Mb/s

Did you check if the video source files are Constant framerate (CFR) or Variable framerate (VFR)?

The issues you are describing - 'dropped frames and audio sync ' are typical of what I would expect if the video is VFR.

A MediaInfo analysis will tell you what the video Frame rate Mode is - in the video section of the Tree view.

If the source video is VFR a quick run through Handbrake or another converter that allows you to specify CFR, to convert to CFR should fix the issues.

John EB

@K-Wood @johnebaker @johnebaker

Hi K.

I am interested mainly in your sentence.

We use Powerdirector to join these files (using its SRVT MP4 output) because it's insanely fast and we've never had a problem with the output. It's an exact match of the input clips, just without the joins.

As I had never heard of SRVT MP4 and and internet search only ever came up with either porn links or linked to the Power directors user forums.

That was not much use but it turns out to be similar to MEPs Smart Copy but proprietary to CyberLink.

So I found the Power Director pdf manual and found this on page 457.

.H.264 AVC:·Allow SVRT on single IDR H.264 video: select this option if you want CyberLink PowerDirector to use SVRT to render a movie project when you only have one H.264 AVC clip on the timeline. See Utilizing Intelligent SVRT for more information on SVRT.

So what is IDR H.264? is it possible to leave it on when dealing with more than one clip on the timeline and what would be the consequences? What if DJI have used such frames in the Actions camera?

The only information I can find so far is it can be used instead of a standard I frame and the only reference I can find is here.

I don't have enough experience to know what that means in practical terms but I'm wondering if that has anything to do with the missing frames problem.

Have you tried using clips straight from camera rather than your conversions?

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

SVRT = Smart Video Rendering Technology, in MEP/VPX terms - Smart Copy/Render

IDR - see here for a better definition

John EB

@johnebaker @Scenestealer@Scenestealer

Hi John.

I'm trying to understand why we can't replicate the problem and the only variation so far seems to be the converted files from PowerDirector.

As for why the files from the Osmo Action are cut at 4GB on I think all their products has been queried and explained by DJI on their forums in the past. They say.

Thank you for reaching out and for these information. The maximum capacity of a single file will not exceed 4GB. If exceeded, the recording will be stopped, and a new recording will be started. In addition, the maximum file size of FAT32 is 4GB. Hence, a file that is larger than or equal to 4GB will be divided, otherwise, the file may be lost or abnormal and cannot be read. Although exFAT allows a larger file size, the larger file may be damaged due to abnormal power-off and SD card removal, or even cannot be recovered. So the storage of the camera is 4GB regardless of the file systems. So it is normal the video will be split if it reaches 4GB. Thank you.

I would very much like to see the MediaInfo data of an offending file to look for deviation from a standard DJI produced file.

Ray.

Hi, thanks for the extra input and advice.

Will have the MediaInfo output and sample files available on the weekend.

MediaInfo did show that SRVT Mpeg output was variable frame rate, even though the inputs were CFR. VERY surprised.

But, when I joined them using MP4Joiner, the MediaInfo outputs from source and outupt was virtually identical.

BUT - even with the identical MediaInfo outputs from using MP4Joiner, MEP 2021 is still dropping frames on import and export. The same frames. The only difference is, now it's dropping 2 out every thirty, instead of 10. So there's something going on in MEP 2021 on import. AAAARGHH!! :-)

It only does it with largish files (around 8gb). But with the smaller files, you don't get the dropped frame rates. I'm... going to figure it out. Will also try ffmepg as a joiner to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks again for the help. Will address all questions raised in your feedback/help and upload relevant files when I can.

Cheers,

K.

@K-Wood

Hi Ray

. . . . MediaInfo did show that SRVT Mpeg output was variable frame rate, even though the inputs were CFR. VERY surprised . . . .

That is surprising - SVRT should not have done that unless the output settings are set to VFR.

However VFR would account for the issues you are seeing/having

John EB

@K-Wood

Glad it's sorted for you but if you are really finding MEP 'fun' you should have a serious look at the VPX offering as it is MEP on steroids. The colour correction tools are more refined as is the double monitor for viewing corrections vs original footage. I get much more subtle control over my Osmo Pocket footage with it. If that seems a bit pricey look for the rare Humble Bundle offerings where the last but latest version can be bought for around £20 from time to time and the plugins you got with your copy of MEP will be automatically ported across and available to both programs. It would still come with a fully valid Magix license.

Ray.

Thanks Ray. I'm intensely colour sensitive (as most video editors end up becoming, I suppose) - so that sounds like it would be money well spent.

A render speed boost would be nice. It's weird with MEP. The renders that should be quick are not (minor slow-mo in the middle of a previously rendered file). And the ones that should be slow are brisk. I guess it just has its muscles in different places to other programs.

Well if you are not in a rush for it, the Humble Bundle offer for VPX has come up twice now in the last year and there is no reason to believe it won't be offered for a third time.

I'm also sure if it does that John CB will notify everyone on the forum when that offer comes around again.

The crazier part is after you install it you will also get invites to update the program at the usual discounted price for existing users which is a huge discount and that offer gets repeated for some months after purchase so there is no rush to upgrade to the latest version while evaluating whether it is personally worth the upgrade.

I'm still getting the offer every other month.

Although there are no third party effects offered with the Humble Bundle offer, the additional effects within MEP are increased as well as their more refined abilities in use. Plus the advantage of the license itself that has better terms and conditions regarding some of it's normally 'for personal use' copyright conditions that have 'commercial use' advantages from the off.

I don't know how you find your Osmo Action but on occasion with my Osmo Pocket (which uses the same sensor) VPX has been very good as correcting some exposure problems bring back lost detail in the highlights while retaining the shadow detail. I have found the various scopes to be useful as well.

Ray.

@K-Wood

Hi

. . . . The renders that should be quick are not (minor slow-mo in the middle of a previously rendered file). . . . .

Without knowing which GPUs you have ie Intel and AMD models, we can only generalise.

Assuming you mean the 'slo mo' section has the Speed effect applied to it and you are encoding h.264/AVC and HEVC export, then the rendering is going to take longer than a non adjusted section as new frames must be calculated, without this the slo mo would be more a sequence of jumps.

. . . . And the ones that should be slow are brisk.  . . . .

That depends on what effects are applied - some effects and video with no effects could be being Hardware Accelerated by the GPU's for rendering, other effects cannot be accelerated and use the CPU for rendering.

HTH

John EB

Well if you are not in a rush for it, the Humble Bundle offer for VPX has come up twice now in the last year and there is no reason to believe it won't be offered for a third time.

Thanks for taking the time to share this Ray.

I've googled but can't find the last price for VPX 12 via a Humble Bundle deal.

So I jumped on the Magix site this morning and added the VPX upgrade version to my cart. It then prompted me to login to check that I qualified for it - then came back and said yes :-) So for US$139 (about AUD$182) I effectively get the full version as a... crossgrade? from MEP 2021 Premium.

The problem with endless promotions and coupons and limited time offers is that it really screws with your perception of what something is actually, genuinely worth. Is VPX worth the AUD$600 for the full version? Absolutely. Until... you look at what you get with MEP 2021 Premium for AUD$100 (via a recent B & H Photo deal). Commercial rights aren't an issue for us (we do our own music and b-roll). But the extra codec support and multi-threading probably makes up the shortfall. We have other stuff for colour grading but the thought of having it inbuilt in VPX would be nice.

I'm also sure if it does that John CB will notify everyone on the forum when that offer comes around again.

The crazier part is after you install it you will also get invites to update the program at the usual discounted price for existing users which is a huge discount and that offer gets repeated for some months after purchase so there is no rush to upgrade to the latest version while evaluating whether it is personally worth the upgrade.

I'm still getting the offer every other month.

Although there are no third party effects offered with the Humble Bundle offer, the additional effects within MEP are increased as well as their more refined abilities in use. Plus the advantage of the license itself that has better terms and conditions regarding some of it's normally 'for personal use' copyright conditions that have 'commercial use' advantages from the off.

I don't know how you find your Osmo Action but on occasion with my Osmo Pocket (which uses the same sensor) VPX has been very good as correcting some exposure problems bring back lost detail in the highlights while retaining the shadow detail. I have found the various scopes to be useful as well.

Our clients requirements include a lot of pale textures (think feathers). So highlight retention is killing us at the moment. The overall quality of the footage has always impressed us. So long as you use spot metering or lock exposure to keep your highlights, we're happy campers.

Cheers,

K.

Ray.

@K-Wood

Hi K.

I paid £20 Stirling. The bundle included other programs I had little interest in but was worth it for VPX alone. At least you get VPX 12 whereas I got VPX11 with Humble Bundle. Maybe John or someone else can tell you the 'improvements' between the two although I'm happy with VPX11 and get to keep my MEP 2021 and the additional third party effects I've built up over time available to VPX now as well.

Not exactly your same position though and I just think you will prefer it. For me it's just a hobby.

Ray.

For me it's just a hobby too. But some gigs make money. Some don't. Like a mashup of Monopoly and Pay It Forward.

Long story :-)

Think we'll grab VPX 12 at that price. Other programs servicing the higher end of the market can do niche stuff, but it just seems to always come at the cost of stability. I'm sensing VPX 12 might be the sweet spot where we can land and settle in for the medium term.

Thanks again. K.

Guess what? VPX 12 doesn't have this problem at all. I bought it and installed it, expecting it to have the same issue. Finally I thought I'd just go ahead and test it and surprise! VPX 12 is perfect. No dropped frames, in preview or in rendered output.

Really really surprised, because I just assumed they'd share code for something as common as MP4 decoding. Guess not. This is actually a relief. And to anyone sitting on the fence, jump on the deal to VPX 12. MEP 2021 is a fine program - but VPX 12 is in another league.

Cheers,

K.