Buzzing Sound When Using ASIO Drivers ONLY After Arrangement Repeats

gmannhtown wrote on 7/23/2017, 7:41 PM

When created music arrives at end marker then loops back to beginning to play again, a buzzing develops and continues to get louder and louder. Note all tracks are MIDI or live tracks, not Soundpool loops. This continues until I stop the music and start it again. Then the music has no buzzing sound until it again repeats. I often have the arrangements in repeat mode because I practice with the MIDI keyboard to create additional melodies / tracks while playing completed music over and over.

I have uploaded a video displaying the issue.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9-8s5AWrGPHMnBBaDA5RnNCUzA/view?usp=sharing

I have tried this with various ASIO drivers:

  • Asio4All
  • Magix low Latency 2011
  • Magix low Latency 2016
  • FL Studio Asio

I have attempted using the ASIO control panels to make changes to resolve with no success. All Windows internal sound drivers are disabled to prevent hardware issues with the Samson system I am using. Issue continue with or without the Windows drivers operational.

It is far worse if I use WASAPI - completely unusable period in WASAPI

If I switch to Direct Sound, the buzzing stops, even upon repeat. But I develop a very slight latency issue when playing the MIDI keyboard with it. I have not been able to determine how to counter that latency issue in any of the ASIO or Magix settings.

If I switch to Wave Driver, it seems to play fine, even in repeat, but I get about 2-3 seconds MIDI delay / latency.

I have tried deleting one track at a time then playing again to see if maybe it is a problem in a track, but no change occurs even as I get to the last track.

This issue only began to occur after updating to the latest build of Magix Music Maker Premium: Version 24.1.6.124

Equipment Specs and Details:

I am using Samson Pro Audio Speakers with built in Input / Output. Same speaker sets at two work stations. Same issue at both workstations

Samson Carbon 49 at one workstation, and Axiom 61 on the other.

I have Windows 10 64 bit with 8 GB memory. Intel Core 2 Duo CPU P8400 @ 2.26 Ghz

Dell Precision M6400

All specs same at both workstations.

Thanks for any help.

Gary

 

 

 

Comments

emmrecs wrote on 7/24/2017, 5:20 AM

Hi.

I have attempted using the ASIO control panels to make changes to resolve with no success

It would be very helpful to know exactly what you have tried because my very strong feeling, having viewed your video, is that what you are experiencing is a buffer problem; essentially the driver cannot handle the throughput of data, though I'm not sure why simply repeating playback of your timeline triggers this. Also, I notice your CPU is somewhat "low" powered for modern software.

However, to test whether buffer overflow is the problem, open the settings panel, as shown below, click on the button I have labelled 1, which will open the settings screen (I've used the Magix Low Latency 2016 screen and its Advanced button opens a screen which is identical to that of ASIO4All). The slider labelled 2 is where you can increase (slide to right) the buffer size. Does this cure your problem?

HTH

Jeff

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 360 and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, Photo Story Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Reaper, Adobe Audition CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D

johnebaker wrote on 7/24/2017, 6:33 AM

Hi

In addition to Jeff's comment 'CPU is somewhat "low" powered for modern software', have a look at this article and how to check if your PC is under powered for audio work - although the article refers to MMM 2016 it is still valid for other versions of MMM.

Please include the full name and version number in your post, as found under Help, About . . . when posting.

HTH

John EB

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

browj2 wrote on 7/24/2017, 7:41 AM

Hi all,

I'm curious about why the computer with 8GB would be underpowered for a 32 bit program. MMM is still 32 bits.

@johnebaker

Gary included the version number in the first post, 24.1.6.124, which is what I have.

As an aside, I just opened MMM on my "new" Surface Pro after having been away for a week. I installed MMM just before leaving and updated but didn't open it. Upon opening, it updated the Soundpools folder and the result was quite different. Before I had some Soundpools that would not show up but do now, but the big thing was seeing everything that is under:

C:\Users\Public\Documents\MAGIX\Common\Soundpools\Video_&_Slideshow_Sound_Archive_8_INT

mostly sound effects, show up under their respective folders. This is excellent, so long as it remains.

So, I think that there may have been some changes in MMM with the latest patch that may have undesirable consequences, as per Gary, along with desirable consequences. More testing is needed.

John

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

emmrecs wrote on 7/24/2017, 7:52 AM

@browj2

Hi John

I don't think the amount of RAM is an issue, although running 32 bit MMM on a 64 bit system suggests that the 32 bit OS limit on RAM usage of about 3.25Gb is not relevant here, but a "relatively" slow, older, dual-core CPU is.

Jeff

Edited: to remove incorrect statement.

Last changed by emmrecs on 7/24/2017, 7:56 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 360 and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, Photo Story Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Reaper, Adobe Audition CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D

johnebaker wrote on 7/24/2017, 8:57 AM

Hi

Apologies Gary, I missed the program name and version number.

@browj2@browj2

. . . . I'm curious about why the computer with 8GB would be underpowered for a 32 bit program . . . . running 32 bit MMM on a 64 bit system suggests that the 32 bit OS limit on RAM usage of about 3.25Gb is not relevant here . . . .

The problem is not the OS limit on RAM usage, 32 bit processes on a 64 bit OS can see/use up to about 2.8 GB of RAM.

I am of the same opinion as Jeff extended to include the type of RAM, how much is actually free and whether the hard drive(s) are SATA or IDE

John EB

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/24/2017, 8:58 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

browj2 wrote on 7/24/2017, 9:21 AM

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the explanation.

While on this topic, there was a link to a YouTube video about CPU Performance vs. Real-Time Performance in Digital Audio Workstations (DAW)  that I found quite interesting. So before I forget,

.

For some reason, today I can't run anything in YT using Edge or Windows IE, but can with Chrome.

John CB

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

browj2 wrote on 7/24/2017, 12:03 PM

Hi,

I did some testing to try to simulate what Gary did on my desktop, 16GB using M-Track Quad Asio driver. I, too, get crackling and popping, but not as severe. I tried the same project in MMM2016 Live and at first there was no crackling, then there was. Went back to MMM2017Premium, crackling. Add more instruments; crackling. Opened project in Samplitude X3; crackling. Increased buffer size from 256 to 512 on the M-Audio M-Track device settings by going through program settings; no crackling.

Interestingly, I managed to get a terrible crackling noise similar to Gary's in Samplitude by leaving the M-Audio interface open after changing it to 256 by going through settings and accepting. Then I changed the buffer size to 512 without opening program settings and I got a lot of noise. Opened the program settings and clicked on control panel (for M-Audio), exited program setting by accepting; noise stopped, no more crackling.

Back to MMM2017 and tried similar tricks. Changing the Buffer size without going through Program settings caused loud crackling. Going through Program settings worked with Buffer size at 512 but after changing to 256, testing, going back to 512, got some crackling. Raised buffer size to 1024, no crackling.

All but one of 5 tracks was a VSTi recorded using my MIDI keyboard; the other was an audio soundpool loop. I used Rock drums, Concert piano, Vita Trumpet. and Choir.

Added more tracks in Samplitude. Note values at bottom left. Crackling at 256.

Comments?

 

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

gmannhtown wrote on 7/24/2017, 6:23 PM

@emmrecs - Yesterday, I had tried various buffer settings in the ASIO4ALL control panel all the way up to 2048 without eliminating the buzzing / crackling. When I last left off yesterday, I had it set to 512. However, and interestingly enough, I came back today and maxed it out at 2048 and it worked seamlessly this time. No buzzes or crackling of sound occurred. Repeat after repeat without any issue. From there I adjusted down seeking the "sweet spot", just for experimentation purposes. I moved it all the way down to 64 samples with no issues. It continues to play over and over with no issues. That is on my laptop having the 8 GB of memory.

Some of the following info was shared yesterday, but for convenience:

System Specs:

Help / About Info - Version Info:

Also, this is the latency performance report for this system. Thanks @johnebaker for providing the article leading to the software called LatencyMon used to obtain this info:

Link for software: http://download.cnet.com/LatencyMon/3000-2086_4-75300293.html

Test Results on 8 GB system:

Snapshot of Task manager while Magix Music Maker Running with ASIO playing the composition that was having buzzing / crackling issues:

However, going back to the one with 6 GB of memory, I experience same issue with buzzing and crackling.

LatencyMon test results were not good for this laptop:

I performed numerous updates to Drivers, including BIOS. Addressed CPU throttling and got all hardware functioning at 100% performance rate. I disabled all other software including the WIFI. After disabling WIFI, the LatencyMon report came back good. Task Manager shows 36% CPU and 37% Memory. But still get crackling and buzzing. I also maxed out the ASIO4 ALL Buffer settings with no change in poor performance.

So for now, I will remain pleased I have one system working as expected. I will soon order additional memory for the other and upgrade the memory from 6 GB to 8GB or greater to see if that corrects the issue. I was planning to do this anyway, so already on my agenda. I also experience audio / midi stuttering with this laptop. I suspect the memory is the most likely culprit as of this moment considering the laptop with 8 GB is now performing to expectations and I feel I have eliminated all other possibilities.

@browj2

Thanks for all the great replies and information shared here. if anything changes with the 2nd laptop, especially once memory updated, I will update this feed.

Respectfully - Gary

gmannhtown wrote on 7/24/2017, 8:36 PM

[[MENTION:175194]] - Hi there John. Great instructional video, Watched in all the way through, It allowed me to understand how the equipment modules can impact core processing parts of the system that renders bad sound, clipping, etc, although it is not just the processor or other common components we presume is the culprit. I was able to make some system and app modifications that got my 6GB system working correctly without the buzzing and clipping, However, I was stuck with minor latency. Just barely enough that it made it difficult to play just right and stay on beat. If I could determine a path to reduce the latency, problem solved. I attempted adjusting settings in the ASIO panel, advanced module in MMM Premium and other areas where possible, but remaining is a slight delay receiving info from the MIDI keyboard. But no buzzes , clicks or other anomalous sounds. Thanks for sharing. - Gary

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the explanation.

While on this topic, there was a link to a YouTube video about CPU Performance vs. Real-Time Performance in Digital Audio Workstations (DAW)  that I found quite interesting. So before I forget,

.

For some reason, today I can't run anything in YT using Edge or Windows IE, but can with Chrome.

John CB

 

gere

emmrecs wrote on 7/25/2017, 10:54 AM

Gary,

However, I was stuck with minor latency.

Have you tried adjusting those two faders at the top right of the ASIO control panel ("Latency Compensation") by moving them to the left?

Jeff

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 360 and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, Photo Story Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Reaper, Adobe Audition CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D

gmannhtown wrote on 7/25/2017, 1:34 PM

Gary,

However, I was stuck with minor latency.

Have you tried adjusting those two faders at the top right of the ASIO control panel ("Latency Compensation") by moving them to the left?

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I want to say I already tried this. However, and in consideration of my uncertain doubt, I will double check this evening once I return from work. Thank you for your feedback and suggestion. I will let you know.

Respectfully,

Gary

gmannhtown wrote on 7/25/2017, 8:46 PM

@emmrecs - Good Evening John. I have verified the Latency Compensation is all the way down to 0 in the ASIO control panel for Magix Low Latency 2016 and ASIO4ALL. Thank you.

gmannhtown wrote on 7/28/2017, 8:20 PM

I do want to reassert that although it may be that this issue may "NOW" possibly be related to memory, hardware or other processing limitations, prior to the most recent build update, I noted no occurrence of this issue. However, I do understand the new build may have added power and processing power requirements that pushed the 6 GB memory with this processor and my current hardware somehow over a threshold? I will continue to work toward a solution.

For now, going to return to working on my second workstation (8 GB memory) where this problem does not occur.

I have a 3rd workstation I will be working with as well that also has 8 GB memory and is all of the exact same hardware. I quickly tested with the 3rd unit, however with minimal aggressive experimentation. I experienced the same crackiling, but after turning up the ASIO buffer, did not experience the same buzzing / crackling. However, experimentation time was minimal. I will push it a lot harder this weekend.

Note: I purchased these Dell Precisions M6400 models and have incorporated them because of their solid performance and upgradeability. I have had excellent performance success with all 3 thus far, in spite of their somewhat now limiting (who woulda thunk it) Dual Core processors.

Thanks for all the support and comments.

gmannhtown wrote on 8/10/2017, 8:48 PM

In the end, I retired the troublesome laptop. Upgrading RAM did not seem to help. It is now a video interface for my flat panel TV.

Note the following link I discovered for optimizing PC / Laptop for audio production. It is primarily made around FL software, but as stated, can be applied to any DAW, etc: