Do I own the copyright if I "tweak" loops included?

mrsien wrote on 12/24/2016, 11:25 AM

I've been stuck for a year now on what to do with my composed songs from magix music maker 2013. It includes soundpools from 16 and before only.

My songs are composed using these soundpools/loops. I have not tweaked them or edited them in any way. Since this is the case, I plan to re-do the entire song (and tweak EACH soundpool) only because I read you cannot sell your music if using their soundpools & not editing them (unless you buy the correct license) which, is beyond confusing (and for me would be expensive because I used MANY loops per song).

But I just want to make sure now....if I edit or tweak each and every loop that I used, will I then own the copyright and be able to sell my songs?*

Also, what is considered editing of these loops...? Can I just add an effect over them or more detailed?

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 12/27/2016, 5:06 PM

Hi

. . . . ..if I edit or tweak each and every loop that I used, will I then own the copyright and be able to sell my songs?* . . . .

No.

You never own the copyright of the soundpools even if you have the required licences - you only have permission to use the Soundpools for what is generally known as 'Public broadcast' - copyright stills belongs to Magix.

See this comparison chart for the available licences and select the one that meets your needs - you will need the appropriate licence for each Soundpool you have used one or more loops from.

The only way for you to own the copyright of the music you create is when:

  1. You compose the score and any vocals.
  2. You use the Synthesizers create the music from 1.
  3. You or another perform vocals from 1.
  4. You do not use any Soundpools.
  5. You do not use any other audio files which are copyrighted or have specific licensing requirements applied without meeting those requirements ie many of the 'free' audio files available on the Internet

HTH

John EB

 

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

mrsien wrote on 12/27/2016, 9:55 PM

Let me ask you this. Two things.

1. IF Magix said: soundpool 16 is Royalty free & can be used for commercial use, does that mean I can sell the songs (that I made using their soundpools) as my own works, since I made the song?

Yet, if I don't own the copyright (if that's true despite them saying it's royalty free)...then how could I sell them legitally?

2. Are there other music making softwares out there in which have royalty free soundpools and you own the copyright if you make a song from them?

Thanks.

johnebaker wrote on 12/28/2016, 1:47 AM

Hi

. . . . IF Magix said: soundpool 16 is Royalty free & can be used for commercial use . . . .

You need to look at the individual EULA for the Soundpool(s) in question - this should be a PDF file on the Soundpool disc.

AFAIK Soundpool 16 was the last to offer this.

Magix no longer offer Royalty Free for Commercial Use of soundpools - you need the correct licence from Catooh

If in doubt contact sales at magix.com for clarification

Copyright and Royalty Free mean two different things - in brief:

Copyright - means some one or a company has created an original work has commercial rights to the use of that creation and are protected from others 'copying' that work, or portions of that work, eg a guitar riff etc, and claiming it as their own. Whether the copyright owner exercises those rights is up to them.

Royalty Free means you do not have to pay a fee, either percentage or one off or whatever type the works creator wishes to use, to use the copyrighted works.

. . . . Are there other music making softwares out there in which have royalty free soundpools and you own the copyright if you make a song from them? . . . .

Not as far as I know - Software manufacturers are there to make a profit and all the major music creation software I have had contact with expect you to do this is as I stated previously - you have to score, play the instruments / synthensizers and record any vocals you use.

John EB

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 12/28/2016, 1:54 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

mrsien wrote on 12/28/2016, 4:13 PM

Greatly appreciate the help.

It's a bummer you know. Especially when Magix themselves are saying I can use the songs for commercial use. But if I don't OWN the copyright, I don't see how that's possible.....

I may go to a layer for advice also.

No of any good software for creating soundpools yourself..?

dave-h96 wrote on 12/28/2016, 6:19 PM

While I have not extensively used other DAW software my guess is that John is right and the business model is the same for many current DAW software providers. If you want to profit from Magix or other DAW software provider's creativity in designing, recording, and distributing their work they deserve compensation. That being said, if one has musical talent, then it should be possible to recreate your work by using just the "free" instruments in the software to accomplish the same musical end. My thought is that, should I ever create a work that has commercial potential, I would go to the musical foundation of that work and seek to recreate it using tools in digital and analogue worlds that would allow me to call the work mine and sell it as I see fit.

mrsien wrote on 12/28/2016, 6:50 PM

Yea I guess I'm just being lazy. But that sounds like a good idea.

mrsien wrote on 12/28/2016, 6:53 PM

Oh actually, do you know if there is a program where you can just create your own loops/soundpools & store them on the bottom of the page (as Magix has them) displayed so you can pick & choose which to use. Because I don't want to just make soundpools as I go along.

browj2 wrote on 12/28/2016, 8:51 PM

Oh actually, do you know if there is a program where you can just create your own loops/soundpools & store them on the bottom of the page (as Magix has them) displayed so you can pick & choose which to use. Because I don't want to just make soundpools as I go along.


Yes, MusicMaker or better still Samplitude Music Studio, and even better, Samplitude Pro X3.

But first you will need to understand the structure. See this thread in which I explain some of the mechanics behind the files needed and where to put them. Also, look at the structure of a Soundpool, its loops, the inf file and the synonym files to see how Magix does it. I am still looking at how to include the BPM within the file so that MusicMaker recognizes it with the loop, maybe in Samplitude Pro X.

EDIT: in MMM 2017, it looks like the synonym files have been replaced by one file: instruments.ini

I have not tried editing this file yet to see what I can add.

After that, you just need the skill and musical ability to create the music. Then you're away.

BTW, I also have MusicMaker as do probably more than a million other people, along with many, many soundpools. Logically, we can't all have the copyright to the loops, which, of course, remains with Magix. But, as John EB points, you can acquire the rights (license) to use them commercially; so can I and so can a million other people. There is no way the other million of us would let you tell us that only you have the rights to the loops after paying 50$ or so to Magix to buy the program. 

If you want to see an example of one of the best products out there for putting together songs for video, look at SonicFire music and their SmartSound program. Check out their licensing conditions for Royalty free music. You never get the copyright but you pay a one-time fee to use the songs commercially within the limits of the license. Royalty free also does not mean that it is free. As you have been told, you have to pay for the privilege (license).  

Have fun!

Last changed by browj2 on 12/28/2016, 9:13 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

Pratik_Music wrote on 12/29/2016, 1:03 AM

hey,

i have created some music tracks with the help of "Music Maker Jam" software..,

can i used that for my video songs which i will be uploading on youtube,

do i have to take permission for using the music track in my video

browj2 wrote on 12/29/2016, 7:49 AM

@Pratik_Music,

Re-read the messages from John EB about using the music/loops created and performed by others. Then read the license and Eula for the program and loops. Then you decide. We are not lawyers.

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

mrsien wrote on 12/29/2016, 1:21 PM

You wrote, "You never get the copyright but you pay a one-time fee to use the songs commercially within the limits of the license."

Understandable, but let me ask you something about one of my songs.

I used around 12-15 soundpools. Does that mean I have to individually buy the license for EACH sound pool (the Audip pro license)? That would be thousands...!

browj2 wrote on 12/29/2016, 4:48 PM

Loops or Soundpools? You can pay for the License for the Soundpool that contains hundreds of loops.

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

mrsien wrote on 12/29/2016, 5:30 PM

Wow, this conversation is turning into a whirlwind! Srry for all the questions & thanks for trying to help. I have been checking this on the catooh website and there's some issues I'm facing...

First off, the disc I have is the "Best of Soundpool Collection." So, it contains a MIX of different soundpools. So basically I can't just buy "Best of Ambient" for example, because my disc is a MIX of pools (like best of ambient, best of rock, etc. vol. 1).

UPDATE:

Ok I just checked something! Basically it's sound effects, because the sound is 10 seconds long. Actually it IS doable to pay, because each sound is .59 cents! I was able to check out the sounds I've used. However, again in reading the audio pro unlimited license I'm still confused. It still seems very restricting and I don't want to get in any problems. So Maybe I will ask a lawyer for legal advice...

browj2 wrote on 12/29/2016, 5:53 PM

Lawyer and ask Magix, but be specific.

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

MrArtipo wrote on 8/5/2019, 11:14 AM

I know I necro this post, but the question is still of actuality.

I have bought several soundpools at the highest price, under the impression I could use them as I wish after that (and they are not cheap). But looking through all Q/A in this forum on the subject, I NEVER have found the simple answer I expected: "Yes; now that you have bought the expensive "commercial" version of the soundpools, you can do whatever you want with the songs you made with them." (Though it's really the impression you are being given when you buy them.) Instead of this expected and liberating answer, it's always complicated explanations that never really tell you are free to do what you want with the songs created with "commercial" soundpools.
In clear, you discover afterward that Magix has sold you something that do not belong to them, and the promise of freedom of use they made is suddenly depending from some unknown third party companies, from which you had not heard before, but probably will the day you make money with the sounds you bought.

Frankly, this is all very fishy. I will now stay completely clear of those expansive "commercial" soundpools, and I feel I have spent money for nothing on them. I like Music Maker very much, and the instruments I bought in it are not too bad. Very nice performance and UI in general. But now, I see the soundpools as some kind of commercial trap for suckers inserted in the software.

johnebaker wrote on 8/5/2019, 11:23 AM

@MrArtipo

Hi and welcome to the forum.

AFAICS the article here explains quite clearly what you can and cannot do commercially with the Soundpools.

If you bought Commercial licences then you can use them as stated in the article and in this supplementary information by @ralftaro.

HTH

John EB

 

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 8/5/2019, 11:23 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

MrArtipo wrote on 8/5/2019, 11:44 AM

@MrArtipo

Hi and welcome to the forum.

AFAICS the article here explains quite clearly what you can and cannot do commercially with the Soundpools.

If you bought Commercial licences then you can use them as stated in the article and in this supplementary information by @ralftaro.

HTH

John EB

 

 

Thank you John. But I already found this link and read the article several times... After having bought the commercial soundpools. This very link should be presented when you buy the commercial soundpools.
Anyway, I appreciate your support.

ralftaro wrote on 8/8/2019, 5:38 AM
But looking through all Q/A in this forum on the subject, I NEVER have found the simple answer I expected: "Yes; now that you have bought the expensive "commercial" version of the soundpools, you can do whatever you want with the songs you made with them." (Though it's really the impression you are being given when you buy them.) Instead of this expected and liberating answer, it's always complicated explanations that never really tell you are free to do what you want with the songs created with "commercial" soundpools.
 

Sorry you find this process frustrating, but just a few additional observations and remarks regarding this topic, since this seems to be close to your heart and has sparked a few threads here again recently.

So, first of all, it shouldn't be surprising that you're not finding any statement that tells you to "do whatever you want to do". It's not exactly what legal terminology sounds like and what one would expect to find in a legal document. Also, I can think of very few instances where licensing a piece of intellectual property would ever put you in the position to "do whatever you want" with it - including your purchase of the latest Hollywood blockbuster on Blu-ray or the latest album by your favourite musical arstist on audio CD.

That having been said, I don't think that's actually your problem, and I don't think you're looking to "do whatever you want to do". Your intention is obviously merely to exploit the songs you've made with MAGIX soundpool content for commercial purposes, e.g. by selling them as a download or on a physical medium, or by using them to accompany some other piece of commercial media production. In this case, the commercial soundpool license is *exactly* what you're looking for. Not sure what information you've been looking at that was supposedly ambiguous about this fact. The purpose of the commercial license should have become clear from any actual official legal MAGIX document that would have been available in this context, and it would have been clear from any official MAGIX customer service response to such a question.

https://www.producerplanet.com/gb/eula/

http://www.catooh.com/uk/help_-_license_terms.270.html

As for the legal terminology being complicated, I suppose that's somewhat subjective, but generally not untrue. Law and legal contracts are barely ever trivial. Many people would consider intellectual property law to be particularly complicated. It's not surprising that it might sometimes stump the layman. Fair enough. Now, here's the thing, and I don't wish this to sound too harsh, but if you need legal help, and need assistance with the correct interpretation of a legal document, you need to get a lawyer. The reality is that, when you're trying to exploit your music commercially, you're essentially running a business. For a business, it would be completely normal to obtain legal assistance in order to be able to navigate the minefield of laws and contracts. Few businesses can expect to exist, stay out of trouble and uphold their own legal interests in the medium or long term without having this kind of assistance, unless the business owners themselves happen to have the necessary expertise.

Ultimately, I think you really need to abandon the idea that there's something fishy going on here, and that the terminology of the contracts is designed to mislead you or trick you into something. This idea is unfounded, and I can assure you nobody at MAGIX is interested in anything like that.

 

In clear, you discover afterward that Magix has sold you something that do not belong to them, and the promise of freedom of use they made is suddenly depending from some unknown third party companies, from which you had not heard before, but probably will the day you make money with the sounds you bought.

Sorry, but what is this in reference to? Can you be more specific? I don't see what third parties would have rights to MAGIX' soundpool content for which we're selling commercial licenses. I think this is a misunderstanding, and the problem scenario you're trying to paint doesn't actually exist. Please expound on your statement.

MAGIX and Just Add Music (Music Maker Jam) have licensed and promoted soundpool content before, for which the original copyrights actually lie with third parties. These were usually cooperations with known musicians/producers, sometimes remix kits of known songs. However, for those soundpools (or Music Maker Jam styles), you would not have been able to find and acquire a commercial license for this very reason. So, that's apparently not the scenario you're talking about.

Once this particular misconception is dispelled, you'll probably see that there's no conspiracy going on, and you can embark on your journey of musical fame and fortune again. 😎

Best regards!