Font limitations in titling

siegbrunn wrote on 11/26/2017, 12:38 PM

I first posted about this 5 years ago http://tinyurl.com/y7epw9pn and I still don't have a solution.I figure, that every 5 years I can post about it again without annoying people. 😊 
It seems that MEP+ limits itself ONLY to installed fonts that reside in the main local font folder. I've been through 2 versions of MEP+ since my original post and it doesn't seem to have changed. Although the fonts offered within the program seem to show ALL installed fonts on the PC, in reality, only those in the main Windows font folder are usable. ( C:\Windows\Fonts )

I am a Fontaholic and have several thousand fonts (nobody's perfect) and I keep my fonts in a separate folder (C:\Fonts2 ). This behavior on my part dates way back to a time when it was always said that if you opened the windows font directory, Windows would immediately install all the fonts within the directory. Since then (at least 2 decades) I have kept my (ever growing) font collection separate and only install what I need from Fonts2 as I need it (with my trusty companion Font Navigator), always trying to keep the count down to 300 or so installed fonts. (I do a lot of graphic and poster work)

Now my question then is:

1. Is this limitation on MEPs font usage something I can get around? (And I don't want to start dropping fonts in and taking fonts out of the main Font folder, it's always a difficult game with Windows.) Or is this perhaps supposed to be solved in the near future?
AND
2. Is that a fable about Window reaction to the opening of the font directory? If I have, say, 7,000 fonts in the C:\Windows\Fonts folder, will Windows lose its mind and try to install them all? If not perhaps it's time to take my courage in my hands and drop them all in there.

Help. I would be grateful for any advice you have.

PS I haven't updated my signature yet. My MEP+ did a big update yesterday and I don't have the version number for you yet.

Comments

yvon-robert wrote on 11/26/2017, 2:24 PM

Hi,

Remember that Magix VDL is for beginners and hobby users the question How many fonts you need ? Why Windows open a maximum of 300 fonts ? My point of view 7000 fonts not made an artist and is not necessary to create a video. Video is far away from fonts creator.

Regards,

YR

johnebaker wrote on 11/26/2017, 3:45 PM

@siegbrunn

. . . . Is this limitation on MEPs font usage something I can get around? . . . .

No - this is a Windows issue, not one with Movie Edit Pro.

There is limitation on the maximum number of fonts that Windows can display in a programs Font selection dialog/dropdowns - the exact number depends on the name lengths of the fonts as held in a Windows registry key - this could be anywhere between 400 - 800 fonts.

You can install more fonts however they will not all be displayed.

. . . . If I have, say, 7,000 fonts in the C:\Windows\Fonts folder, will Windows lose its mind and try to install them all? . . . .

If they are in that folder they are already installed - with such a large number there will be a performance hit and the majority of the fonts will not be available in a programs Font selection dialog/dropdowns due to the restriction above, and thus not available to any program.

. . . . Is that a fable about Window reaction to the opening of the font directory? . . . .

No - the performance hit can be significant or even crash Windows

HTH

John EB

 

 

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

siegbrunn wrote on 11/27/2017, 7:43 AM

First, thank you both for your responses.

To answer your post YR - I don't see MEP (VDL) as something just for beginners. I myself have plenty of difficulty and find the learning curve not the easiest. My world is Corel & Photoshop and for that I need a wide variety of fonts and additionally, I said at the beginning that I have a font addiction, which I do not attempt to explain away or excuse. I enjoy them and that is that. My font library is extensive, but I sort it and find new and original choices for projects. Only a tiny percent is installed. However my artistic abilities are not under discussion. I would like to have the choice to create titling in whatever font I wish.

JohneBaker, you wrote: "No - this is a Windows issue, not one with Movie Edit Pro." But It seems that, unlike Corel or PS, MEP is not capable of using all fonts that are installed. Actually, I can't think of any other program that I have that is unable to use any fonts that are installed under Windows, whatever directory they call home. I find that odd.

Thank you both for your posts.

 

terrypin wrote on 11/27/2017, 11:50 AM

Interesting topic. FWIW, I see apparent consistency here between the fonts shown in both MEPP 2016 and C:\Windows\Fonts. And in Font Viewer too.

The numbers are actually different because Windows reports 'families' of fonts, 358 in my case. For example, there's only one entry in Windows 10 for 'Tw Cen MT' but MEP's drop-down list includes three versions of that family. Font Viewer reports 394 which roughly matches my estimate of the number in MEP's drop-down list.

Hmm - The Font Thing reports 526. (Six are for 'Tw Cent MT'.) So I have 526 fonts.

C:\ProgramData\MAGIX\Movie Edit Pro 2016 Premium\Titles\Fonts has 70 fonts. And C:\ProgramData\MAGIX\Movie Edit Pro Premium\2017\Titles\Fonts has 76.

All my fonts seem accessible in PaintShop Pro too, for example.

I'd guess I use three or four regularly in my videos and another score occasionally.

On my C drive I have 1,240 hits for *.ttf. Browsing a few, I can see how it's tempting to install more!

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Last changed by terrypin on 11/27/2017, 11:52 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

siegbrunn wrote on 11/27/2017, 6:22 PM

So Terrypin, do you understand my questioning why MEP cannot recognize the "links" in the main font folder, while every other program on my computer can? I am really baffled by this.

johnebaker wrote on 11/28/2017, 4:35 AM

@siegbrunn

Hi

Are the ones that cannot be used Postscript fonts?

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

siegbrunn wrote on 11/28/2017, 8:13 AM

Johnebaker, no they are normal TTFs and OTFs. As I said, every other program on my PC can use ANY font I have installed over Font Navigator. Only MEP refuses.

terrypin wrote on 12/1/2017, 10:05 AM

So Terrypin, do you understand my questioning why MEP cannot recognize the "links" in the main font folder, while every other program on my computer can? I am really baffled by this.


No - but I'm not confident I fully understand your issue. How did you create these 'links' in c:\windows\font? To try replicating my understanding of your setup I first looked for a font that was not installed, i.e. not currently located (as a file) in c:\windows\font on my Win 10 PC. I arbitrarily found one, BabasFigurineV2.TTF, and right-click dragged it to c:\windows\font, expecting to select the option to Create shortcut. But there was no such option. Presumably because of the specal nature of this folder.

The font was instead immediately installed, and after previewing it I deleted it.

Same rejection if the link was created elsewhere and then moved to the fonts folder.

So, just to confirm I have understood correctly, you have links in c:\windows\font (which do not match any file there)? These fonts are accessible in all applications that use fonts (except MEP)? Despite not being 'officially installed', i.e. with their files placed in c:\windows\font?

Any clues by studying the list here? Are any of your 'link' fonts there and if so anything special about them?
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Fonts

Otherwise I'm baffled how any of them can be working, e.g. in Paint, Notepad, etc.

Last changed by terrypin on 12/1/2017, 11:08 AM, changed a total of 4 times.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

siegbrunn wrote on 12/1/2017, 11:44 AM

I use Bitstream Font Navigator and have done for (maybe) 20 years. In the FN window I first do a font search, first in the Fonts basic folder and then secondly in my Fonts2 folder. The fonts are all registered then in the FN catalog and I can install and uninstall.

When I look directly in the Fonts Folder I see both the fonts that call this folder home, and - showing up as links - all the fonts that were installed by FN from my Fonts2 folder. As far as usability, Window does not differentiate between the fonts from the main folder and those that are installed by FN with links. And additionally, if I open a project in Corel that might be older and I have in the meantime perhaps uninstalled the font or fonts, Corel offers me the option of immediately installing the font over Bitstream Font Navigator.

But more to the point, I don't understand how ALL my other programs (Corel, Photoshop, Word, Excel Sure Thing Disc Labeller, Adobe Acrobat, Open Office and Word Perfect) are able to use ALL installed fonts and MEP can't.

 

Goodness! I hope that was clear.

😬😒

terrypin wrote on 12/1/2017, 4:45 PM

I’ve no experience of Bitstream Font Navigator, but it sounds as if it’s a low-level program with which MEP conflicts. I have a low-level program which has the same problem, only with MEP. It’s my macro writing app, Macro Express Pro. Certain simple macros that work reliably with all other apps do not do so with any version of MEP.

But, academic curiosity apart, why not change your approach? Can you not simply drag a font file into THE fonts folder whenever you want to use it, and drag it out again afterwards if you’re uncomfortable with the folder growing too large or whatever?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

siegbrunn wrote on 12/1/2017, 5:50 PM

It sounds sensible, but other irritations aside (trying and rejecting fonts on design grounds once I see everything together) there is the Win snippiness that comes so often when I try to delete a font that I put into the Font directory myself. Very often I'm left hanging, because Windows says it's still in use - even after I've closed all the programs I can.

But tell me, does that mean that with some other font manager I might not be installing a link (as FN does now) but the manager would copy the font into the Font directory and then remove it when I choose to uninstall?? (I hope you're understanding my question, sometimes I think I losing the thread myself.)
 

terrypin wrote on 12/2/2017, 3:06 AM

You didn’t answer my earlier key question asking how you created these ’links’? Are you sure they really are links and not temporary copies with distinctive icons?

if you’ve had this problem for over five years I guess you’ve researched alternative font managers?

But I still think another possibility could be MEP’s ‘non-standard’ program structure in some areas, as I described.

Last changed by terrypin on 12/2/2017, 3:07 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

siegbrunn wrote on 12/2/2017, 3:45 AM

The links are created by FontNav, not by me. I just looked at the Properties of one of these links though and it doesn't show up like a link on my desktop (with "Target" and a "Start in" entries). It looks like a normal properties window, except that the the directory named is not Fonts but my Fonts2. directors. The appended JPG shows what I see when I call up Properties on one of the (from FN installed) "linked" fonts
.
I have looked at some others, but frankly Font Nav was always considered one of the best and I've used it so long it's second nature. When i read about a manager it almost always falls short in one area or another. I'd even PAY (imagine that) for one that worked well for me. But if this problem with MEP isn't solvable, I don don't know if it's worth it.