Hi John,

Manual.

Hi Terry,

I tried to reproduce this in both MEP2016 and VPX but cannot. When I group them and move them, both move together. However, I think that I have run into cases with lower thirds that, even though grouped, would not move as a group. Unfortunately, I can't reproduce that either.

John CB

Hi John,

Thanks for trying anyway. Next time I add a similar pair to the timeline I’ll carefully note all operations in the hope of finding a consistent cause.

I didn't at first think that the method I use to place both of those elements was relevant, but I now conclude that can be the only logical cause.

If I bring the shape and text in separately and reposition and then group, they stay grouped. Even if I ungroup to edit one or both and then re-group. But after bringing them in simultaneously as a 'special', as described below, they remain resolutely ungrouped after any editing, despite both appearing selected.

My placement method:
1. Ctrl+T and confirm, which adds an arbitrary 'Title' in whatever style was used last. Could change the text here or later.
2. Right- click > Load title template...
3. Choose a home made 'Oval...' from the many home grown specials in my \Titles\Standard folder

From now on I'll either
- abandon those particular oval specials (and any others that involve preset groups) and revert to separate placement, or
- copy immediately and delete the orignal pair; the two then behave as if placed individually.

Here's a sample if anyone wants to experiment:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kn7s51z1jxa7dt4/OvalWhtOnLtBlue.tfx?dl=1

@John EB: My reply to your question was clealy inaccurate, sorry! I chose 'manual' because it wasn't "...part of a caption or speech bubble", but my special effect TFX is clearly very similar!