Incompatibility between all my MAGIX audio programs and Yamaha AG06?

fbherr wrote on 7/16/2019, 10:19 PM

Hello! I just acquired a Yamaha AG06 audio interface/mixing console (which uses the Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver 1.10.4), and I think I may have found a bug or incompatibility in Sound Forge 12.1 (Build 170), in both the 32- and 64-bit versions. Wondering if anyone else has as well.

With Options > Preferences > Audio > Audio device type set to "Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO":

Symptoms: when I hit the spacebar or click the Play button, playback only goes for a split-second and then stops.Cannot get it to keep playing at all.

Even more strangely, when I then turn "Loop playback" on and then hit the spacebar or click the Play button, I can hear in the headphones that playback does occur, but the place it plays from does not seem to correspond to the place where the cursor was, and while it's playing, there is no visible indication of where the cursor is. Also when you pause or stop it, the cursor seems to stop in a random location.

This problem disappears, and everything goes back to the familiar and expected cursor and playback behaviour, when I change the Options > Preferences > Audio > Audio device type settings to Microsoft Sound Mapper.

I have found the same problem with a few other of my MAGIX programs too: ACID Pro 8.0 (x64), Sound Forge Pro 10.0e (Build 507), and Vegas Pro 12.0 (64-bit). All of them stall playback after just a split-second, if the Steinberg ASIO driver is selected in the Settings.

I haven't had this (or any) problem so far with this interface/driver with Studio One Artist 4, Cakewalk 2019.05, Audacity, Adobe Audition or Adobe Premiere Pro.

Any advice or info would be appreciated. Can make a video showing the problem if it helps.

Thanks in advance,
- Frank

(Desktop specs: Windows 10 Home (x64), CPU i7-5820K @ 3.30GHz, 32GB RAM)

Comments

fbherr wrote on 7/19/2019, 7:05 AM

Quick update: contacted MAGIX Support, will update this thread again when they've had a chance to investigate & advise.

Rednroll wrote on 7/26/2019, 2:45 PM

It's likely a Yamaha ASIO driver problem. They're not exactly known for being one of the more commonly used audio interfaces. You may want to try the ASIO4ALL driver with the Yamaha interface and see how that works.

fbherr wrote on 7/26/2019, 6:12 PM

Thanks for your suggestion. I realize that the Yamaha AG series isn't that common among musicians (which is too bad, because I'm really liking it!), but in fact, it uses a Steinberg ASIO driver. My understanding is that Steinberg invented ASIO, and uses that same driver in a number of other more common audio interfaces as well (they list CI1 / CI2 / CI2+ / UR12 / UR22 / UR22mkII / UR28M / UR242 / UR44 / UR824 / UR-RT2 / UR-RT4 on the driver website). So I'm really hoping that MAGIX tech support will be able to figure out what's making that driver incompatible with Sound Forge.

(Interestingly, since I first posted here, I did an update on ACID Pro 8, and now it works fine with my AG06. So there's hope!)

My limited understanding of ASIO4ALL is that it's made for ASIO-incapable devices. I used it years ago with such a sound card, and though it did add ASIO capabilities to it, it also caused me a lot of grief and time wasted with various programs. I don't remember the details anymore, just my decision to steer clear of it and only buy ASIO-capable audio devices in the future. I'm sure it's probably improved over the years, but I'm not at all eager to put it back on my system.

fbherr wrote on 8/19/2019, 12:32 PM

Update, one month later: right after I started this thread, I opened a Magix support ticket, and exchanged some emails and made a demo video of the problem for them. They said they'd pass it along to their developers. But when I followed up last week to ask if they had any new info or solutions, I discovered that my support ticket had been closed, without notification, reply or resolution. I opened a new one to request that my original ticket be reopened, but apart from the automated response, I haven't heard back at all yet about this.

Not a good sign, but I'm still holding out hope that this is simply because of their staff being away for summer holidays, and not because they just decided to ignore the bug and hope I'll forget about it :-)

I've used Sound Forge forever (since the Sonic Foundry days) and I do really love it, so I really hope they'll be able to make it compatible with Steinberg drivers again.

Update Aug 29: I'm happy to report that Magix support is still on the case - turns out my ticket was closed automatically due to an error, but I've heard from them again and they're still looking for the solution. Really appreciate their efforts in trying to get to the bottom of this puzzling problem.

zwazoo wrote on 9/1/2019, 4:26 PM

Frank, Same problem here, exactly. Other applications work fine, just SF13 Pro behaves exactly like you describe. I also have an open support ticket, referred to the developers. Same driver version, different interface, UR242.

Tom

fbherr wrote on 9/1/2019, 7:25 PM

Ah! Thanks Tom, good to know - I'm simultaneously sorry to hear that you're having the same problem, and encouraged that the problem is likely more with the Steinberg driver than with my own particular system setup.

Good luck with the developers. If different people are working on your ticket than on mine, if it helps, feel free to refer them to the video I made for my ticket, to demonstrate the problem: .

zwazoo wrote on 9/8/2019, 8:10 AM

Frank, thanks. Not sure if they will get anywhere. One thing I noticed, about 24 hours after a reboot, it works for a while. Then it stops working, no real time limit. Reboot and repeat. I suspect it has to do with the driver and Windows 10 V1903. Unfortunately, this started with SF Pro 12, when I upgraded to V1903. The Steinberg drivers were updated at the same time. I moved to SF Pro 13 attempting to eliminate the problem. All other applications work fine, mainly iZotope RX-7 and Diamond Cut Audio Restoration Tools. As much as I don't want to, I think I'll get another Audio Interface.

johnebaker wrote on 9/8/2019, 9:01 AM

@fbherr, @zwazoo

Hi

. . . . I suspect it has to do with the driver and Windows 10 V1903. Unfortunately, this started with SF Pro 12, when I upgraded to V1903 . . . . .

A bit of a long shot, however check if Virus &threat Protection, Ransomware protection, Controlled folder access is on, if so try disabling it.

HTH

John EB

Last changed by johnebaker on 9/8/2019, 9:01 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX 12, MEP Premium 2021, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2021.

Running Windows 10 Professional 20H2 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, 3 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60GB internal SSD, + 6 ext backup HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

fbherr wrote on 9/8/2019, 9:15 AM

@fbherr, @zwazoo

Hi

. . . . I suspect it has to do with the driver and Windows 10 V1903. Unfortunately, this started with SF Pro 12, when I upgraded to V1903 . . . . .

A bit of a long shot, however check if Virus &threat Protection, Ransomware protection, Controlled folder access is on, if so try disabling it.

HTH

John EB

Thanks for the suggestion John, just checked and unfortunately I don't think that's the problem - Controlled folder access is off on my system.

fbherr wrote on 9/8/2019, 9:41 AM

Frank, thanks. Not sure if they will get anywhere. One thing I noticed, about 24 hours after a reboot, it works for a while. Then it stops working, no real time limit. Reboot and repeat. I suspect it has to do with the driver and Windows 10 V1903. Unfortunately, this started with SF Pro 12, when I upgraded to V1903. The Steinberg drivers were updated at the same time. I moved to SF Pro 13 attempting to eliminate the problem. All other applications work fine, mainly iZotope RX-7 and Diamond Cut Audio Restoration Tools. As much as I don't want to, I think I'll get another Audio Interface.

Thanks Tom - that's interesting; reboots don't seem to affect the problem in my case. I hear you about getting another audio interface, but for me the AG06 was one of the few that fit the bill of allowing me to play and record music on either a desktop or an iPad. If this current problem isn't fixed, as much as I love Sound Forge, I'm probably going to have to try to do without it. It's just a hobby for me anyway, so "make do with what you've got" is my best option for now ...

tom-fine wrote on 4/24/2020, 11:02 AM

Has this problem been solved. I am having constant problems with a Steinberg UR44 and Sound Forge 12. Whose fault is this problem? The Yamaha/Steinberg ASIO driver seems to work just fine with all other software on my new (12/19) Dell Precision 3630 Tower running latest Windows 10. Since I can't use Sound Forge 12 with this device, I am at a logjam with transferring some 4-channel material into the computer.

James-Lo wrote on 4/24/2020, 11:44 AM

I opened tickets with both Magix and Yamaha in February, but aside from ticket acknowledgement I've never heard back. I've given up and am using a MOTU interface instead.

fbherr wrote on 4/24/2020, 12:02 PM

Has this problem been solved. I am having constant problems with a Steinberg UR44 and Sound Forge 12. Whose fault is this problem? The Yamaha/Steinberg ASIO driver seems to work just fine with all other software on my new (12/19) Dell Precision 3630 Tower running latest Windows 10. Since I can't use Sound Forge 12 with this device, I am at a logjam with transferring some 4-channel material into the computer.

Not to my knowledge. Every few months I check both Sound Forge 12 and 13 for updates, but the problem remains even after each update that I apply. I don't think Magix is putting any energy into this, so I'm slowly learning how to do everything in Adobe Audition instead, which works fine with the Yamaha/Steinberg ASIO driver. It's a pity, I really prefer Sound Forge, but it remains unusable with my AG06.

cybermaster wrote on 4/25/2020, 1:16 PM

Have you tried it with a different driver other than ASIO? Over the years I've occasionally had issues with an application not working with an ASIO driver and the problem was usually solved by switching to a different driver and NOT using ASIO with that particular program. (Funnily enough, Adobe Audition is one that I had trouble with using the ASIO with a Behringer interface) But switching to MME or some other driver solved the problem.
I use Sound Forge 11, so I can't say if the same option is there for your version, but mine has an option for "Windows Classic Wave Driver" that recognizes and works fine with both my M-Audio and Behringer interfaces. You should try this if you haven't already.

fbherr wrote on 4/25/2020, 1:54 PM

Have you tried it with a different driver other than ASIO? Over the years I've occasionally had issues with an application not working with an ASIO driver and the problem was usually solved by switching to a different driver and NOT using ASIO with that particular program. (Funnily enough, Adobe Audition is one that I had trouble with using the ASIO with a Behringer interface) But switching to MME or some other driver solved the problem.
I use Sound Forge 11, so I can't say if the same option is there for your version, but mine has an option for "Windows Classic Wave Driver" that recognizes and works fine with both my M-Audio and Behringer interfaces. You should try this if you haven't already.

Yes, I have tried that, thanks for the suggestion. The bug goes away for me when using other drivers. But my understanding is that ASIO is the standard for communicating with sound cards and lowering latency, and for me, getting the lowest possible latency is crucial for my uses.

cybermaster wrote on 4/27/2020, 8:24 PM

Have you tried it with a different driver other than ASIO? Over the years I've occasionally had issues with an application not working with an ASIO driver and the problem was usually solved by switching to a different driver and NOT using ASIO with that particular program. (Funnily enough, Adobe Audition is one that I had trouble with using the ASIO with a Behringer interface) But switching to MME or some other driver solved the problem.
I use Sound Forge 11, so I can't say if the same option is there for your version, but mine has an option for "Windows Classic Wave Driver" that recognizes and works fine with both my M-Audio and Behringer interfaces. You should try this if you haven't already.

Yes, I have tried that, thanks for the suggestion. The bug goes away for me when using other drivers. But my understanding is that ASIO is the standard for communicating with sound cards and lowering latency, and for me, getting the lowest possible latency is crucial for my uses.

Yes, I completely understand about the desire for low latency. I've been compelled to keep my old Delta 1010 card in my system because of its excellent low latency which is really needed for realtime softsynth playing. But, I will say I'm curious what requires you to have extreme low latency in Sound Forge? Just wondering about it, because the way I've always used it as an editor, latency isn't any concern one way or the other.

fbherr wrote on 4/27/2020, 11:41 PM

Yes, I completely understand about the desire for low latency. I've been compelled to keep my old Delta 1010 card in my system because of its excellent low latency which is really needed for realtime softsynth playing. But, I will say I'm curious what requires you to have extreme low latency in Sound Forge? Just wondering about it, because the way I've always used it as an editor, latency isn't any concern one way or the other.

You know what? You're absolutely right, it's not an issue for editing, is it? I was thinking about recording, where I've been frustrated by latency issues in the past, but I usually use different (DAW) software for that.

But isn't there also a quality advantage with ASIO drivers? I was under the impression that they produced higher quality / higher fidelity files somehow too. I should research it, I've just always accepted what I heard somewhere, that for best results in editing and saving audio files, you should always work with your interface's ASIO driver. Maybe that's not necessarily true?

Anyway thanks for the nudge! Research tomorrow :-)

rraud wrote on 4/28/2020, 10:56 AM

Sound Forge is not deigned for 'overdubbing' (old school term for playing back pre-recorded track(s) whist recording another), so an interface with a preamp should not have a latency issue when monitoring directly.

cybermaster wrote on 4/28/2020, 1:19 PM

My understanding regarding drivers has always been that they can affect the quality of how the signal is passed back and forth between the application and the hardware, but doesn't affect the quality of the program's internal processing of the files - unless its a situation where you're doing a realtime bounce through external processing where the signal has to pass through the interface while it processes. So, any change in sound quality you may hear with different drivers is only a difference in how it sounds being played through the interface, not an actual difference in the quality of the digital file itself.

If I'm completely wrong about this, someone please correct me, but I'm certain this is the case based on my 20+ years of PC-based recording using a wide variety of hardware and software.

fbherr wrote on 8/17/2020, 10:39 AM

Update, Aug 2020: Revisited this old problem this morning just out of curiosity, and discovered that installing Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver 2.0.3 (for Windows, available here) seems to fix it for me. I can now once again enjoy normal playback in SF Pro 13 & 12, as well as in Vegas Pro 12 and ACID Pro 8. Yay!

The release notes confirm that in the previous driver version (2.0.2), Steinberg "Fixed a problem in which Sound Forge (by Magix) would not work properly."