Listening to the Darkside (loop)

gjonny wrote on 9/6/2022, 9:03 AM

[MM2023 v31.0.0.10  Premium]
[System: i5-9500T, 16GB ram, intel UHD graphics, Win10]

I had SongMaker generate a piece, based on the Drones&Textures genre.  There were 13 - 14 tracks, 3 of which were the "Darkside" loop.  It's an Fx loop in the Ambient-Meditation soundpool (Darkside1).  

I was hearing occasional glitches when playing back the piece.  I narrowed it down to the 3 Darkside tracks (everything muted except these 3 tracks). By "glitches" I mean things like apparent dropouts, strange tones that didn't belong.  These glitch effects were random -- each time I played back the piece, they'd be at different time points.  If I muted 2 of the 3, there were no glitches.  

These 3 tracks are all the exact same loop.  I've wondered if it might be a timing issue?  But if I do extreme magnification, the time markers seem to line up.  Does anybody have a suggestion/explanation for what's happening here? 



johnebaker wrote on 9/6/2022, 10:16 AM



. . . There were 13 - 14 tracks, 3 of which were the "Darkside" loop.  . . .

With this many tracks the issue may be with the Preview buffer being too small

Try increasing the Preview audio buffer size up 1 or 2 clicks on the + spinner.


John EB
Forum Moderator

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gjonny wrote on 9/6/2022, 5:17 PM


Thanks for the idea.  I raised the Preview Buffer value from 8192 to 32768 -- it made no difference.  

One item of info I forgot to include in my first post: I tried exporting the piece to a wav file.  The glitches were painfully audible.  But I think this also indicates that it might be something other than the Preview Buffer?

Going through the Buffer test got me thinking about what other testing I might do. . .

1a)  You commented about the number of tracks having a possible impact.  So, I deleted everything but the 3 Darkside tracks and saved to a new file -- no difference at playback.  If all 3 are live, there are glitches.  As noted previously, if 2 are muted, there are no glitches. 

1.b) This raised another question: is there a difference between reducing the number of tracks for playback (buffer load) by muting vs deleting?

2)  The 3 Darkside tracks are made up of several Darkside loops strung together (not all lined up with the same start/end time points). I deleted all but one piece of loop from each track, then dragged the begin/end edges so each loop filled the time space for that track (hope that makes sense).  Guess what -- NO glitches!  So, I'm back to wondering again if there might be timing/synchronization issues.  


PS: My questioning here is academic at this point -- more for my understanding than anything else. I found that only one track of the Darkside loop was adequate for the sound of the SongMaker-generated piece.

David-Barselow wrote on 9/6/2022, 5:58 PM

Here is a bit of advice, make sure that your store window is not open, if able when you first open magix close the welcoming window by using the X in upper right corner. This took me a long time to learn it doesn't work for everything but it just might help here, if left open and just clicking new project or some other option seems to use a lot of resource.

gjonny wrote on 9/6/2022, 9:40 PM

close the welcoming window by using the X in upper right corner.


Yes, that's my standard way of getting to the main app window. I haven't had any obvious resource issues before this. However, as I commented previously, even with only the 3 Darkside tracks in a project, I'm still getting glitches. So I think there's something else going on here. Thanks.

David-Barselow wrote on 9/7/2022, 8:39 AM

I would just remove and replace and get beyond this if you haven't already. Sometimes even I feel like I'm wasting time trying to figure somethings or fix problems, I forget when it's in my best interest to just walk away.

SP. wrote on 9/7/2022, 10:04 AM

@gjonny You get sound glitches if your audio hardware isn't fast enough to calculate the music. But if you just have some tracks with audio loops and no effects it should work fine, even with low grade audio hardware. If you have lots of effects it's another story. I think the preview buffer is only relevant if you click on a loop and want to hear the preview. You need to raise the buffer of the audio driver. Depending of the audio driver you use, you need to click on the Settings button and increase the buffer size in the driver settings. This is the case for ASIO drivers.


You can also try to reset the program settings under the File > Settings menu and to reboot your computer. This can also help.

gjonny wrote on 9/7/2022, 5:27 PM


Thanks for the suggestions.
>> if you just have some tracks with audio loops and no effects 
No effects (other than fades).
I'm using a Behringer UCA222 usb sound card, and the [new] MM ASIO driver.  I set the Output Buffer to 2048 (that's the only config setting I could see) -- no difference.  I tried going back to the old MM 2016 ASIO driver, and raising Buffer size(s) -- again, no difference.  

>> You can also try to reset the program 
>> and to reboot your computer

No noticeable difference.
In my opening post, I said something about the glitches seeming to be random.  Having listened to the tracks umpteen-dozen times now, I'm realizing that's not quite accurate.  The glitches are minimal at beginning of playback, and get progressively worse/stronger (not more frequent) as you get further down the timeline.  And the "strange tones that didn't belong" are places where a particular tone had dropped out, and come back. 
And again, the glitches happen if multiples of the same loop are dropped on multiple tracks (as opposed to _one_ loop on each track being dragged to fill that track).  So I go back to wondering about timing/synchronization.



SP. wrote on 9/7/2022, 5:34 PM

@gjonny I'm pretty sure your problem is the Behringer UAC 222. Change the driver back to Music Maker ASIO and select a different output in the driver settings. It is likely that your computer has an Realtek audio chipset, use that as your output.

gjonny wrote on 9/7/2022, 6:19 PM


Yes, it's a Realtek chipset. As it happens, I had already tested with the Realtek (with increased buffer size), but tried again, per your suggestion. The glitches are still there.

Why do you say the UCA222 is a problem? I've used it with MM2021 through MM2022, to MM2023 now, without any issues. This Darkside loop is the first where I've heard glitches, and that's only in a particular configuration.



SP. wrote on 9/7/2022, 6:32 PM

@gjonny I'm not sure Behringer developed this interface for audio production. It looks more like an converter. So it will be clearly a bottleneck in computation. But you wrote, that you have the same problem with the Realtek output selected.

Does this problem only occur with the Dark Side loops? You can check the loops with the help of a tool like Mediainfo. Maybe the files are corrupted or have a different sample rate.

You can also export the problematic project via the backup export option. This will save the projects and all loops into a single destination. You can then create a ZIP-file of this project and share it via WeTransfer. We could then try to load it into our versions of Music Maker and test, if the same glitches can be heard. I'm not sure this will work if you use the loops unlimited subscription because I don't have it and cannot open the files.

gjonny wrote on 9/8/2022, 5:02 PM


>> you have the same problem with the Realtek output selected.

>> problem only occur with the DarkSide loops?
Yes (Darkside1). 

>> Mediainfo 
I haven't used MediaInfo before, so am not sure how I'd recognize corruption?
Darkside ==> 80 bpm itself
Current project ==> 85 bpm 
Is this enough of a bpm difference to cause problems with some loops?

A funny thing happened on the way to the forum. . . 
When I installed MM2023, I set it up for the loops to be in WAV format.  That's where I was hearing some pretty drastic glitches in the project.  After going through the Reset, the loops all came back as OGG format.  When doing playback of the project, some of the glitches were there, others were missing.  So, I re-downloaded the loops in WAV format -- same thing: some of the glitches were missing. 

I don't know what to make of this?  
>> export the problematic project via the backup export option
I got several error messages about missing loop files.  A question: is this "legal" to pass a project backup to someone else?  If you already own the loops, then obviously it's not an issue.  But otherwise...?

I can upload project (.MMM) files, I don't know if that would be useful?


Not sure what you mean by "converter"? Can you suggest another product? This is hobby only, and I don't need mic connections.


SP. wrote on 9/8/2022, 6:18 PM

@gjonny Magix released a new patch for Music Maker. Please try it first.


A Behringer UMC22 or a Focusrite Scarlett Solo are better suited for Music production and aren't that expensive. I personally use a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 and a Roland Quad Capture.


I sent you the Darkside loops I have in my collection via a private message. Please try to replace your loops with them. They are not from Producerplanet but from my Music Maker 2006 disc. If no glitches appears with these loops it's possible your audio files are damaged.



gjonny wrote on 9/8/2022, 7:10 PM


I did the update -- glitches are still there.

Got the Darkside loops, will try them out later. Thanks!

gjonny wrote on 9/10/2022, 7:48 AM


There seems to be a compatibility problem your set of Darkside loop files:

I have a project with just the Darkside tracks that also has the glitches, and have created a backup. I've sent you private message with a d/l link.

Thanks for checking,


If anybody else is following this thread, and is interested in the issue, I have another d/l link,

Edit: I realized there's going to be compatibility issues, so have removed the link.

SP. wrote on 9/10/2022, 10:03 AM

@gjonny Thanks for your project.

I believe you cannot simply replace the files because the your files are in 24 bit and my files are in 16 bit. So you need to place my files somewhere else and try to load them via drag and drop into a new project.

I tested your project and can play it back without absolutely no sound problems whatsoever. The exported file SM-02 - Drones & Textures-10 Darkside test EXPORT.wav also sounds fine when I play it.

I think there is something wrong with your audio hardware. Are you only listening back via the UCA222? Maybe you need to disable energy saving in the Windows settings. There is an option that will try to save energy on the USB ports. Please check that everything is set to high performance (on a desktop computer) or balanced (on a laptop) and than disable energy saving for the USB ports in the settings.

gjonny wrote on 9/10/2022, 4:07 PM

@SP (your name doesn't show in the @ list, for some reason)

>> place my files somewhere else and try to load them via drag and drop into a new project. 

Okay, I wondered about that.  The thing is, when I create another project with the Darkside loop, I don't get glitches.  Very confusing.

>> EXPORT.wav also sounds fine when I play it.
>> I think there is something wrong with your audio hardware.

Wow, I didn't see that coming.  As far as USB config, power management is disabled in both Power Options and Device Manager.

Thanks again for checking,




SP. wrote on 9/10/2022, 4:46 PM

@gjonny I'm not sure if you changed the correct USB settings. This video shows what I'm talking about.

The thing is, when I create another project with the Darkside loop, I don't get glitches.  Very confusing.

Using "your" loops or "my" loops? Maybe there is something wrong with the old project file. If you don't get any problems in new projects, it's probably the best idea to just create a new project. You can try and copy and past all audio objects from your old project into a new project if you don't want to recreate everything from scratch.

gjonny wrote on 9/10/2022, 9:22 PM


As far as I can see, the video shows only the Power Options setting. There's also a setting in Device manager. . .

>> "your" loops or "my" loops?

Both. (I did mention this about my loops, in a post previous to you joining the conversation)

As you suggest, I'll start a new project, and copy loops over. It's time to move on.

Thanks again for your input,