MEP2014 premium audio/video sync on imported MPG files

nmw01223 wrote on 8/1/2015, 9:47 AM

There are a few sync topics but none appear to help me.

I am using MEP2014 premium v13.0.3.14 on a reasonably fast 4 core CPU, 4GB RAM, running Windows 7 SP1 64 bit.

Up to now I've mainly used it to import Topfield PAL .REC files (not HD) once converted to MPG using VideoReDo, with no issues, and for occasional VHS transfer.

I am now trying to import some PAL HD recordings (UK). These are made on a laptop using an August T210 DVB-T2 USB receiver, and TotalMedia 3.5. TotalMedia writes them as MPG files, approx 3GB/hr, 1920x1080 I think.

When the files are played back through TotalMedia on the laptop, no problem. When imported to MEP, the lip sync is way out. What is more, it doesn't seem to be the same clip to clip. I have to set the frame offset to between -47 and -57 frames - that's about two seconds. I am not sure at the moment if the sync varies during the clip - on the short 5 minute clips I have, it seems not. Creating a new frame table makes no difference (never found making frame tables to do anything, actually).

Can anyone advise what is going on here? Why is it out? why is it different per clip? why does it appear absolutely OK when played back on the laptop?

......

In fact I have now found it is worse than I thought. Play the clip more than once using the timeline in MEP, and it is liable to require a different offset each time. Could be anything up to 25 frames different.

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 8/1/2015, 12:55 PM

This sounds like Total Media is recording the video with a variable framerate which MEP does not support, hence the variation in the audio sync which will vary depending on where in the video you start playing.

You can use MediaInfo to analyse one of the video fles and see if the bitrate is variable.

NOTE: you will have to put MediInfo into Tree view to see the required detail.

. . . . Up to now I've mainly used it to import Topfield PAL .REC files (not HD) once converted to MPG using VideoReDo, with no issues, . . . .

I suspect this is because VideoReDo is converting to a fixed framerate, again you can use MediInfo to check this on one of the converted videos.

HTH

John EB

nmw01223 wrote on 8/2/2015, 3:42 AM

Thanks for your response, useful. I downloaded MediaInfo, and I find the clips are MPEG2 transport stream as opposed to program stream (ie the container for lossy transport, as opposed to something like a DVD).

It seems therefore that VideoReDo - or at least my old version - cannot handle transport streams, and that MEP doesn't like importing them, whereas VideoLAN is quite happy with them. So I need to find a way of converting them from the transport stream container to the program stream container, I guess.

Possibly a newer VideoReDo - mine is very old.

johnebaker wrote on 8/2/2015, 3:57 AM

. . . .transport streams, and that MEP doesn't like importing them . . . .

MEP does handle mpeg transport stream (mts and m2ts) perfectly, whta it does not handle is variable framerate and odd / unusual codecs.

What does MediaInfo say about the video format and framerate?

John EB

nmw01223 wrote on 8/2/2015, 5:47 AM

Yes it does say variable, and 'advanced video codec'. The full listing is:

General
ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
Complete name                            : F:\Video\MEP MX premium\Movie Edit Pro 2014 Premium\work\Breakfast_20150802_06000900.ts
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 16.2 MiB
Duration                                 : 23s 520ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 5 789 Kbps

Video
ID                                       : 6601 (0x19C9)
Menu ID                                  : 17540 (0x4484)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=8, N=24
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 22s 520ms
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : MBAFF
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 6602 (0x19CA)
Menu ID                                  : 17540 (0x4484)
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Muxing mode                              : LATM
Codec ID                                 : 17
Duration                                 : 23s 509ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -958ms
Language                                 : English
descriptor_tag_extension                 : 6

Text
ID                                       : 6605 (0x19CD)
Menu ID                                  : 17540 (0x4484)
Format                                   : DVB Subtitle
Codec ID                                 : 6
Duration                                 : 18s 80ms
Delay relative to video                  : 3s 763ms
Language                                 : English

Menu
ID                                       : 6600 (0x19C8)
Menu ID                                  : 17540 (0x4484)
Duration                                 : 23s 520ms
List                                     : 6601 (0x19C9) (AVC) / 6602 (0x19CA) (AAC, English) / 6605 (0x19CD) (DVB Subtitle, English) / 6650 (0x19FA) () / 7302 (0x1C86) ()
Language                                 : / English / English

I see the audio section quotes an audio delay of -958mS, but that doesn't explain why it comes out differently on two different playings.

nmw01223 wrote on 8/2/2015, 12:29 PM

I've just recorded another clip - same hardware and PVR - but this was SD, not HD.

This one was fine. It was still variable frame rate - a lot lower, around 2.1Mbit/sec average, 720x576, but the format was 'MPEG video version 2' this time. No offset at all.

General
ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
Complete name                            : F:\Video\MEP MX premium\Movie Edit Pro 2014 Premium\work\Long Lost Family What Happened Next_20150802_13351435.ts
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 1.03 GiB
Duration                                 : 1h 6mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 2 192 Kbps

Video
ID                                       : 1701 (0x6A5)
Menu ID                                  : 8258 (0x2042)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Codec ID                                 : 2
Duration                                 : 1h 6mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 1 825 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Active Format Description                : Letterbox 16:9 image, with alternative 14:9 center
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.176
Stream size                              : 874 MiB (83%)

Audio #1
ID                                       : 1702 (0x6A6)
Menu ID                                  : 8258 (0x2042)
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 2
Codec ID                                 : 4
Duration                                 : 1h 6mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -210ms
Stream size                              : 91.9 MiB (9%)
Language                                 : English

Audio #2
ID                                       : 1703 (0x6A7)
Menu ID                                  : 8258 (0x2042)
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 2
Codec ID                                 : 4
Duration                                 : 1h 6mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 64.0 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -66ms
Stream size                              : 30.6 MiB (3%)
Language                                 : English
Language, more info                      : Visual impaired commentary

Text
ID                                       : 1731 (0x6C3)
Menu ID                                  : 8258 (0x2042)
Format                                   : DVB Subtitle
Codec ID                                 : 6
Duration                                 : 1h 6mn
Delay relative to video                  : 817ms
Language                                 : English

So it seems it is not specifically the 'variable bitrate' that MEP doesn't like.

johnebaker wrote on 8/2/2015, 3:11 PM

. . . . It was still variable frame rate . . . .

Both the HD and the SD are fixed frame rate at 25 fps. The video bitrate is variable which is normal.

I have been comparing some of my TS files from my satellite PVR using MediaInfo and the results are the same as yours. MEP handles these TS files without issue.

Can you upload the Breakfast_20150802_06000900.ts file to somwhere like Dropbox so we can test it? This will help determine if this is a reproducable issue or whether it is specific to your computer / MEP installation.

Is your MEP patched up to date? The last update version was 13.0.5.4

HTH

John EB

nmw01223 wrote on 8/3/2015, 1:57 AM

Sorry, I meant bit rate, not frame rate - it's all UK PAL 25fps.

Unfortunately I've dumped the Breakfast... clip! It was only a quick snatch from breakfast TV, so I'll do another one and upload it.

The app is up to date - just done it.

A clip will be uploaded ....

nmw01223 wrote on 8/3/2015, 5:30 AM

... and it has been. It (27.6MB) can be found at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7uiN9acpMfNcEZ5cGZCUXdmUWc/view?usp=sharing. It shows lip sync well out on MEP 2014, and variable, play to play.

I have discovered that the reason VideoReDo Plus won't handle is that it is h.264/AVC (MP4) not MPEG-2, which is all Plus handles. I downloaded and tried a trial version of VideoReDo TV Suite, and that handles it OK, and can convert it to MPEG-2 OK. I remembered I also have an AVS4YOU video converter, and that converted it to MPEG-2 OK. VideoLAN as I said also can play it OK. All the converted MPEG-2s import into MEP 2014 OK with no lip sync issues.

So it seems the only thing I have tried that cannot handle it is MEP 2014. I don't know if MEP 2015 is OK with it - I don't have a copy.

Therefore, if there is no answer as to why MEP 2014 cannot handle it, I suppose I have all these various transfer options. However (a) they all take time (and space) to do, and (b) with lossy compression each de/re-compress loses quality, so I'd prefer to find a solution and get MEP 2014 to handle it natively.

johnebaker wrote on 8/3/2015, 12:56 PM

Thanks for the file, it has me very puzzled - with MEP 2014 and 2015, Nero Video, Nero Recode and MovAvi Video Converter - sync is all over the place.

With AVS Video Editor and AVS Video Converter, sync is OK

VLC plays it fine, WMP plays it but has no audio, just video.

The more I dig into this the more I find this is a regular issue with TV recording software, however there is no consistency in the degree of syncing, as opposed to a hardware PVR recorder.

The only option, and this is recommended in many other forums, is to use a converter.

HTH

John EB

nmw01223 wrote on 8/4/2015, 12:22 AM

Thanks for your reply. Yes, looks like it then.

Odd that others can manage it. The right information must be present, or they wouldn't be able to.

For the information of others, this is an August T210 DVB-T2 USB TV receiver and associated driver. The actual TV receiver software package doesn't appear to matter, they all do the same thing.