Comments

browj2 wrote on 11/24/2018, 4:59 PM

Hi,

No. Loops are audio clips, not MIDI.

John CB

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

daeell29-ukysse wrote on 11/24/2018, 6:29 PM

Is it possible to edit a loop from the sound pool with the MIDI editor? In other words can I change like a D major loop to a Dm7 loop with the MIDI editor?

Yes , you can .

Loops are not only audio clips ; Some of them can be midi .

Nevetheless , you should save in the "tak" format '(*.tak)

The main difference with midi files is that you save which VST and which preset is used to play the midi file indide magix music maker

To save them , use in the enu Edit / Object / Save as takes

The shortcut by defaul is alt + shift + S , after to have selected the midi clips

 

If you want really to save the in midi format ( for instance to use them in an another prohram ) go to yje midi editor and in the menu use File / Export Midi

 

You are not obliged to save your take files in the original soundpools . Probably it s wiser to create your own folder ,with an hierarchy of folders and use drag and drop from the explorer to the main arranger window

johnebaker wrote on 11/25/2018, 1:42 AM

@daeell29-ukysse

. . . . Is it possible to edit a loop from the sound pool with the MIDI editor? In other words can I change like a D major loop to a Dm7 loop with the MIDI editor? . . . . Yes , you can . . . .

As John CB has said you cannot do this.

A soundpool loop is and audio file, of for example wav or ogg format, which consists of a digital representation of the analog audio signal level sampled at a high frequency rate eg 48 kHz (approx 48000 samples per second).

A MIDI file contains no audio - it is a special format file that contains a set of instructions, as indicated in the image below, which tell the MIDI device ie instrument, what to do, eg Note on, Note off, Volume 70, Swell 15 etc.

HTH

John EB

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

emmrecs wrote on 11/25/2018, 10:03 AM

@Otey-Otay

Is it possible to edit a loop from the sound pool with the MIDI editor? In other words can I change like a D major loop to a Dm7 loop with the MIDI editor?

Both browj2 and johnebaker have given you the correct answer to your question; it is NOT possible to edit audio files in a MIDI editor.

However, there is a software, which can function as a VST within Music Maker. Have a look at the various versions of Melodyne; the "higher-end" products in the range include a quite remarkable feature called "DNA, Direct Note Access". This allows the user to isolate individual notes within a piece of recorded audio, e.g. a chord or series of notes, and do exactly what you have wanted to do, specifically, alter the required notes in order to change a loop from D major to D minor. To do this you "record" the loop into Melodyne, this produces a "score" where the notes are represented as individual pitch "blobs", any one or more of which can be dragged to become the required "new" pitches.

It is most definitely NOT the easiest software to use but the results, if you're prepared to be patient and take your time to learn to use it properly, are outstanding.

But the price is not cheap if you need the DNA facility!! Only you can decide whether the cost is a worthwhile expense for you!

Jeff

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 360 and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, Photo Story Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Reaper, Adobe Audition CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D

shgrude wrote on 11/25/2018, 10:55 AM

@emmrecs

I am quite sure there are license issues using soundpool Music and change them with a SW tool as you describe. There is a reason for the .ogg/.wav formats used for Soundpools and that they are not provided as MIDI files.

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz
Operating system: Microsoft Windows 10 Home (64-bits) OS 18363.475 (1909)
Memory: 16GB
Sound Card: NVIDIA High Definition Audio
Realtek High Definition Audio
NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible) (WDM)
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 1920x1080

emmrecs wrote on 11/25/2018, 11:10 AM

@shgrude

I take your point, but I'm not sure whether altering the modality of a loop or even a single chord or note, as requested by the OP, could be described as copyright infringement.

There is a reason for the .ogg/.wav formats used for Soundpools 

Indeed so, but whether that is because of copyright or merely to retain the "audio integrity/quality" of the original is debatable, I think! 😀 

In today's world of audio sampling and with technology like Melodyne the opportunity to "change" a sound (without denigrating the original and/or infringing the rights of the copyright holder) is a rather "grey" area, to say the least.

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 360 and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, Photo Story Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Reaper, Adobe Audition CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D

browj2 wrote on 11/25/2018, 12:43 PM

Hi,

I have 55,000+ ogg loops and 10,000+ tak loops from Magix Soundpools, and 7361 mxcogg Soundpool loops (from the Store). The tak loops are mostly done using a synthesizer or a sequencer, but not all. If the loops happens to be a tak, then it is obvious that it is not an audio file as there is a piano roll style and not a waveform.

The audio loops are played or sung by professional studio musicians using traditional instruments or their voice, i.e., audio recordings, not synthesizers or sequencers. It has nothing to do with copyright infringement or Magix turning MIDI files into audio, if that is what is implied.

Further to what Jeff said, MusicMaker has Vocal Tune 2, which appears to be a light version of Melodyne, if you have it activated (likely a Plus or Premium feature) in with which you can modify notes.

Back to the original question, I assumed that the OP was referring to audio loops and not MIDI loops, or the question would likely not have been asked.

However, there is one thing that can be done with the audio loops to change the pitch. Loops that are not percussion, have a pitch that is show at the top of the arranger. Click on the dropdown and you'll see that you can change the pitch, even to major and minor. It seems to work. How they do this, I have no clue.

There is no way using this to change a D to DM7, only to d or D minor.

John CB

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

daeell29-ukysse wrote on 11/29/2018, 10:07 PM

@daeell29-ukysse

. . . . Is it possible to edit a loop from the sound pool with the MIDI editor? In other words can I change like a D major loop to a Dm7 loop with the MIDI editor? . . . . Yes , you can . . . .

As John CB has said you cannot do this.

A soundpool loop is and audio file, of for example wav or ogg format, which consists of a digital representation of the analog audio signal level sampled at a high frequency rate eg 48 kHz (approx 48000 samples per second).

A MIDI file contains no audio - it is a special format file that contains a set of instructions, as indicated in the image below, which tell the MIDI device ie instrument, what to do, eg Note on, Note off, Volume 70, Swell 15 etc.

HTH

John EB

Sorry but you are wrong .. You make the assumption that "loops" are synonymes of "audio files"

In your folder Soundpools , you have both audio format and tak/midi format ( and a third format for the old synthetizers as robota , beatbox2 , livid , loppdesigner .. It s unused now )

One instance of tak format is inside the soundpool "Techno - Subliminal Inferno" / Synths .

Genarlly they use Revolta or Dn-e1 as instrument

 

You make the mess with the sub-folder "shop' inside your sooindpool folder where you can buy new sooundpools ONLINE ( and not offline ) who don t have this format because Magix has wanted to crypt them nefore to uncrypt them with the internal authorization of the shop

 

 

For Audio files , changing a D Major for D7 needs a loop with a chord Major and a loop with no chords

for instance chord D7 Major = chord D Major + notes in C#

Some loops ( for instance in the sequences or basses ) are monotones and play on ly the same note within a rythm , so , eventually you may build a chord

But it s too much painful

 

johnebaker wrote on 11/30/2018, 12:09 AM

@daeell29-ukysse

Hi

. . . . the assumption that "loops" are synonymes of "audio files" . . .

By long standing tradition in the music industry the term loops refers to audio files.

This came about prior to the development of digital music and instruments. The term is derived from the use of audio tape formed into loops for repeated audio and was used in instruments such as the Mellotron - an example can be heard in the track Badge on the Goodbye album by Cream (1969).

TAK files are not MIDI files, they are reference files which refer to the original file whether it is audio or midi eg the Deep And Dirty Bass 1.TAk actually loads the Deep And Dirty Bass 1.MID file into Music Maker and Aral Bass A 2_ogg.TAK will load Aral Bass A 2_ogg.wav file.

The OP used the word loops which, by the long standing tradition as above, were taken as meaning audio files.

To be clear we should distinguish between the two type and specifically specify whether audio loops or midi loops are being referred to.

John EB

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 11/30/2018, 12:14 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

browj2 wrote on 11/30/2018, 12:15 AM

Hi,

According to what I read into your statements, "In your folder Soundpools , you have both audio format and tak/midi format... " If there is an ogg file, there should be an identical tak file that one could open and modify. I do not have duplicates that I have found, one being an ogg file, the other a tak.

Here is a screen shot of the loops from your example:

C:\Users\Public\Documents\MAGIX\Common\Soundpools\Basics_24\Techno - Subliminal Inferno\Synth

There is Bloody Boy Synth 1..7.TAK, but no OGG files. There is Broken Pluck 1...7.OGG, but no TAK files. Etc. There are no duplicates - one a TAK the other OGG. Do you have duplicate files?

Again, if the OP is using loops that are audio files, either ogg or wav, he cannot edit them in the MIDI editor, but can edit them like I showed using the dropdown pitch menu. If they are TAK (MIDI) loops, then it is obvious visually on the screen that they are MIDI files and not audio files and thus can be edited in the piano roll editor (MIDI editor or Inspector tab).

Since you mentioned Robota, Beatbox2, LoopDesigner, and Livid, the first 3 can still be used if you have the syn file (Robota.syn) available from a previous version of MusicMaker. I haven't been able to make Livid work in MM2019. It's too bad that Magix dropped these. See this tutorial:

John CB

Last changed by browj2 on 11/30/2018, 12:18 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

johnebaker wrote on 11/30/2018, 12:35 AM

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . C:\Users\Public\Documents\MAGIX\Common\Soundpools\Basics_24\Techno - Subliminal Inferno\Synth . . . . There are no duplicates - one a TAK the other OGG. Do you have duplicate files? . . . .

I do have duplicate TAK and OGG files in the BASS subfolder only of Techno - Subliminal Inferno as shown below

The other folders appear to be OK - looks like a folder clean up may have been missed!

John EB

 

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

emmrecs wrote on 11/30/2018, 3:53 AM

@daeell29-ukysse

For Audio files , changing a D Major for D7 needs a loop with a chord Major and a loop with no chords

for instance chord D7 Major = chord D Major + notes in C#

Unfortunately, this is not correct if read at "face-value", sorry! D7 and, what you term "D7 Major", more commonly named as "D M(ajor)7" are quite definitely NOT the same!

"D7" contains the notes D, F#, A, C natural: "D Major 7" is D, F#, A, C sharp, a very different sound!

Yes, I am a musician by training and profession - I actually have two university degrees in music - so this sort of thing is my "bread and butter". (Just in case anyone should wonder why I have written this post!!!)

😁

Jeff

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 360 and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, Photo Story Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Reaper, Adobe Audition CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D

daeell29-ukysse wrote on 11/30/2018, 8:03 AM

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . C:\Users\Public\Documents\MAGIX\Common\Soundpools\Basics_24\Techno - Subliminal Inferno\Synth . . . . There are no duplicates - one a TAK the other OGG. Do you have duplicate files? . . . .

I do have duplicate TAK and OGG files in the BASS subfolder only of Techno - Subliminal Inferno as shown below

The other folders appear to be OK - looks like a folder clean up may have been missed!

John EB

 

It s because Take file is a generic format .

It may encapsulate one midi file

It may encapsulate one audio file

It may encapsulate one synth file ( drumloops , robota , beatbox2)

 

It contains not only the audio OR midi , OR synt , but the effects applied to the clip/loop ( if your effect is an object effet and not a track effect )

It may contain stretching information , pitchshifting to .. etc ..

 

If the original clip was a midi file , it contains too the neme or the link of which VST instrument you use to play the midi

and the preset used in this VST

 

If the original clip was a syn file , it contains too the chenges inside your synth ( wich pattern you have used etc... )

For instance , you open beatbox2 , you choose the preset "happy land" , you change the pattern for "future pop SE"

you apply a FX object as a compressor effect with amplier preset and a reverb effet , you select your object and go to menu "object Save as Take" . You open a new project , you drag and drop from explorer your take file , you have saved , you will see the object , with all the modifications you have done ( the reverb , the preset used , the syn used , the change of pattern , etc ... )

If the original size was a wav file , it contiains infomations you have applied to the original file ( for instance if you have modified the volume , the curve of volume of the object ( and NOT the curve track ) ) , reverse , gating , etc .. )

 

In your screen , the file "Dark Bass 1.tak" encapsulates a midi file .

If you drag and drop this file in the main window of magix maker on a track , you will see that it encapsulates a midi file . IYour tack will open a VST instrument ( DN -e1 with the "brither name" preset" )

 

The magix documentation tells :

The magix documentation tells :

Takes

Every object can be saved as a "Take". Takes save all editing done on an object, like object length, fade settings and all object effects. MIDI takes save the instrument controlled by them (MIDI output or software instrument).

Takes are saved as "TAK" (*.tak) files and take up virtually no space on the hard disk. This means you can cut a sample, add various effects to it and save it as various takes in order to use these together with all their editing in other MAGIX Music Maker Premium projects. Instead of repeatedly saving the original sample, only the object and effect settings are saved.

The MIDI loops included with MAGIX Music Maker Premium (you'll recognize them in the Media Pool by this icon) are also takes because the MIDI files only sound the way they were intended when combined with the right synthesizer sound.

Attention: When loading takes, the audio or video file for which the take was added must be in the original folder.

Keyboard shortcut: Alt + Shift + S

 

daeell29-ukysse wrote on 11/30/2018, 8:16 AM

@daeell29-ukysse

For Audio files , changing a D Major for D7 needs a loop with a chord Major and a loop with no chords

for instance chord D7 Major = chord D Major + notes in C#

Unfortunately, this is not correct if read at "face-value", sorry! D7 and, what you term "D7 Major", more commonly named as "D M(ajor)7" are quite definitely NOT the same!

"D7" contains the notes D, F#, A, C natural: "D Major 7" is D, F#, A, C sharp, a very different sound!

Yes, I am a musician by training and profession - I actually have two university degrees in music - so this sort of thing is my "bread and butter". (Just in case anyone should wonder why I have written this post!!!)

😁

Jeff

My bad . Indeed , i have translated D7 for D Major 7 ( semi tones 0-4-7-11) , and in fact it s more translated for D dominant 7 ( semi tones 0-4-7-10)

Thanks to avoid some readers to make mistakes . . My point was more that to tell that , eventually , the OP could build a chord in repeating several traks if your clips/loops are monotones but rythmed . It s a bit ugly and painful method , and unrealistic to apply this method on the whole song , but this method can be used exceptionnaly or if the same chord is used continuously and repeated on several bars