Hi Ray
. . . . This really seems to have upset you both. .
Not at all - if it feels like the 'inquisition' then apologies, it is our curiosity as to how you are seeing this with plugins and we aren't and cannot reproduce this.
Personally I do not think we will solve the conundrum of why 3rd party VSTs work for you and not for us:
. . . . They were loaded via MEP and not Music Editor 3 . . . . . . . I have at no stage added any folder paths to ME3 from using ME3s' interface. . . .
Yet I cannot reproduce this.
In MEP I have all these VST's installed
In ME3 this is what I see whether launched from within MEP or as a standalone - the only effect is the am-track_Se, this is the same for the Mastering effects dropdown you are using
If there was any communication from MEP to ME3 I should be seeing at least some of these audio effect plugins that were added to MEP
If I add the VSTs path in ME3's settings, this is what I see whether launched from within MEP or as a standalone
John EB
Ooohh! Now I get it! Cubase = CubeAce. Talk about being slow to catch on.
To add to what John EB said, either you have stumbled across something that we don't know about or something else is happening. I'll do this in 2 parts - 2 threads.
With one exception, ignore MusicMaker in this discussion. Since you had MM installed, if you opened ME3 from MM and then navigated to VST's in locations other than the ME3 default location, these would also show up when ME3 is opened from MEP - there is only one ME3 on your computer. ME3 is not a plug-in, it is a separate program that can be opened from within MEP, VPX, Music Maker, etc.
A. What you posted
Out of my 108 plugins it installed 9....
Below is your image showing VST's in ME3 that could only be found by first having navigated to the VST folder(s) within ME3 under Options, Path settings - no matter whether you loaded ME3 as a standalone, from MM or from MEP, there is only one ME3. There is no way that ME3 would detect VST paths by adding them to MEP itself. This has to be done in ME3.
Image 1
Here is the ME3 Path settings screen. You add multiple VST plug-ins by navigating to them one by one.
Image 2
Below is the first of your screen shots of ME3 opened from MEP. You are getting the third party VST's because the path was already set previously when you had used ME3 with MusicMaker.
Image 3
For the image below, you stated:
They were loaded via MEP and not Music Editor 3 John.
No, they were not. What you did was to add the paths to VST's using the Video FX plugin manager. This does not load VST's for MEP as we will see, nor does it load VST's into ME3 - ME3 is a separate program.
Image 4
For the next image, you state:
But they cannot be loaded into MEPs mixer panel.
Of course not. As I said above, putting the paths to the Steinberg VST's into the Video FX plugin manager does not attach VST's to MEP.
Image 5
You have to add the VST paths by using Program Settings in MEP as shown below.
Image 6
Do so now. Then you will have access to plugins like below by pressing on the + button:
Image 7
Above I show another third party VST plugin that has nothing to do with Magix.
You also posted the following and said:
Well All I can say is they showed in ME3 John, and they didn't until I used that Scan folders option. Remember there are audio effects listed in that section as well.
No, using Scan folders from MEP would not add VST paths to ME3.
Secondly, I pointed out that the audio effects shown below (your image) are from Magix and that you can create and save your own by applying effects from the Audio Cleaning dialogue. Even the Magix effects shown use the built-in audio effects.
Image 7
For example, apply the last one, Wind and rumbling filter, and you will see EQ appended to the audio object name. Open it in the Audio Cleaning dialogue and you will see how the filter was applied to the Equalizer.
Image 8
Part B is in the next message.
John CB
Be sure to review Part A in the previous thread first.
PART B How it works
1. In MEP, you can use various audio editing programs as the external audio editor by changing the path to the executable of the program under:
Image 9
As I said, I have tested many and suggested that you try Audacity. I should have said Cubase, which is what you have and I believe that you indicated that you had tested it. Does it work as indicated below?
2. What happens - normally, you can right click on an audio object of the audio part of a video object and you should see the following - "Edit wave externally:"
Image 10
In the above image, I selected a wav object.
However, there is a bug in MEP and VPX and when you right-click on the audio part of a video file, you may or may not see "Edit wave externally" as shown in the next image:
Image 11
We discussed this way back. If you use proxy files, then "Edit wave externally" will show up. If the video file is not a proxy file, "Edit wave externally" may not show up. In my case, out of the 5 programs that I mentioned, it only shows up when I have Audio & Music Lab set as my external audio editor. It does not show up with ME3 as the audio editor. This is a bug that has been around for a long time, confirmed by others, so please do not dispute this. Magix is aware of it.
If the selected object is actually a wave file, then the external editor will open and import that file.
If it is not a wave file, then MEP will do a mixdown and replace the audio object, even if it is the audio part of a video object, with a wave file that is saved wherever you indicated when asked. That mixed down file will replace the original audio in MEP - see the red object in Image 11. Then the external editor will open with that newly created audio object.
In Image 10, I first did a mixdown on the first video/audio object by creating a range and using the shortcut Shift+D to create the wave object. The original object was on track 2 as part of the video object. Then right-clicking on the resultant object on track 3 showed "Edit wave externally" in the menu. This is my workaround to the bug.
3. Edit the object in the external audio editor. Exit and save when requested. The audio file will be updated to the edited version within MEP as control is returned to MEP because the wave file has been modified/overwritten.
4. Again, all the external editor does is allow you to use its tools to modify, clean, use VST's on the object - nothing else. I use it only when I cannot do what I need to do in MEP/VPX, like spectral cleaning.
There is no operating link between MEP and the external audio editor.
The same thing can be done by exporting audio from MEP to a wave file, opening that wave file in an audio editor, saving the modified file, exiting the audio editor. In MEP, import the audio file and place it appropriately, muting the original. The "Edit wave externally" command simplifies the process, that is all.
If you have a lot of audio objects, like narration, or many AV clips that could benefit from outside help, then you can mixdown a range and limit it to a track by soloing the track. Then edit the result in the external editor.
You mentioned Rewire. MEP is not a DAW or a synthesizer, so you cannot use Rewire.
You cannot use some other program as a mixer or to link with the mixer in MEP.
You cannot send multiple objects or tracks to the external audio editor - only one object. If you want more, you first have to do a mixdown to a single object. Only a single object will be edited externally and only a single object will be returned.
5. VST's that work and don't work - You mentioned that not all VST's showed up in ME3. ME3 is a 32 bit program, thus only 32 bit VST's will work. MEP is a 64 bit program and both 32 and 64 bit VST's should load - but only in MEP as I showed in Part A, Image 6. VST3 plugins do not work in either program, thus you should use an external editor that does use VST3 plugins if you need to use them.
6. VPX and Samplitude Pro X - For interest only, unlike MEP, VPX has some MIDI capability, but not for MIDI instruments. VPX and Samplitude can be linked together in a master/slave slave/master relationship using LoopBe1. With both opened, they will be synchronized by the MIDI time clock and playing back one will playback the other. Thus scoring or dubbing can be done in Samplitude, and editing in VPX can be done at the same time. Of course, the final result from Samplitude has to be exported and then imported into VPX.
John CB
Hi John and Ray (for some reason your @name has vanished completely)
I forgot to add at the end of my last post that clearing the VST path in ME3s settings does not remove any existing VST's that were added, this can only be done by resetting the program under Help.
There are 2 installs on my PC presumably one from MEP and the other MMM as one is in Program Files, and the other in Program Files (x86). They are versions are independant of each other yet they both are 32 bit - neither will load a 64 bit VST
John EB
Hi Guys.
Hi John EB.
First of all.
'No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition' Monty Python quote. Not a serious comment but it just feels like I'm going around in circles at the moment.
I am almost as perplexed as you two, but I have noticed some differences between your images and mine.
I did show that in my MEP mixer panel nothing extra is available to me.
Your image of ME3 is what I get if I open that box. But I don't, or didn't, until I tried after seeing your image.
If you had looked closely at my earlier seven images you would have noticed me doing this.
That is the only place I looked for the added vsts. I'm used to using dropdown boxes in Cubase. It's my normal working mode so didn't occur to me to try another way. I did not direct MEP to individual folders of vst categories as there are many sets but instead to the general vst folder.
As I said, I haven't tried using the other way of installing.
When you did add the vsts were they then accessible from ME3?
The vsts that do work are ancient. I checked and I first used them when I had my first full pc with an Athlon CPU. They would have worked on the Atari console. That Cubase installation disc was a CD and not even anywhere near full. Like I said earlier, not even all of those work. Nothing over 640KBs seems to load. I checked the ones in ME3 for size, and they are all under 789KBs. Maybe it's a memory address problem? I simply don't have an answer.
Hi John CB.
Yes I've been using that on line since my late 20s. It seemed cool at the time but presumptuous now. 😊
It's on every account I use so a bit late to change it all now.
On point 1: I'm not sure what you mean as I only loaded them the way I just showed John.
2: No I didn't Sorry.
3: That may have been possible. I did try to point the vst plugin folder to get my X-Phrase synth working again inside Music Maker as I had once before I had my last pc crash, so yes I concede that may have been how it happened but the X-Phrase synth sits in its own folder as I can use it as a stand-alone instrument.
4: & 5: may not be applicable if 3: is the way it went.
6: Tried that but tried again. I still have nothing showing in the effects section of the MEP mixer.
7: Have you posted two image sevens?
8: I never knew that. It makes sense and thank you for the instruction. That could be useful.
I hope point three is the answer you were looking for. It would seem there are some dynamic links left over I was not aware of.
Ray.
Hi John EB
Yes, the @ names mostly disappeared, but typing in the name after putting in @ starts to find them.
Do you have more than one installation of ME3 under Windows Settings Apps?
I only have one on both computers.
I'll get back to you. It's time for the dog to take me for a walk.
John CB
Hi John EB.
Just saw your last post. That may explain a lot. Cubase went to 64 bit vsts quite early. In 2010 with Cubase SX2.
I have checked and nothing beyond that set of effects have loaded but not even some more complex older ones don't load that are 32 bit. still now, that (new) 780KB limit. Still, it may not be the answer. We may have to be coders to get to the bottom of it.
Ray.
Hi Ray,
Adding VST's in ME3 does not make them accessible in MEP. You have to add them in MEP as I showed, under Program Settings, Folder, VST plugins.
ME3 is old and only takes 32 bit VST plugins. By default, ME3 will pick up anything installed under its VST path:
C:\Program Files\MAGIX\Movie Edit Pro Premium\2019\MusicEditor\VstPlugins
or something like that (2020 in your case).
To get more in ME3, under Options, Path settings, you open the folder button and navigate to where you have more 32 bit plugins installed. You can do this for multiple locations.
What you showed in your series of images and what you showed John EB was VST's opening in ME3, not MEP. Just use MEP as I indicated near the bottom of this thread.
MusicMaker is 32 bit so only takes 32 bit VST plugins. Adding plugin paths in MusicMaker does not add them to ME3 and vice versa; they are totally independent. You may not have any VST's in MusicMaker because you did not add them - within Music Maker. In Music Maker, just like in MEP, you open Program Settings, Folders tab and click on the Add VST plug-in path button. You can do this multiple times.
Installing plugins on your computer is independent of linking them to a ME3, MM or MEP. Usually, you can decide where you want to install them.
I have 32 bit plugins under:
and 64 bit plugins under:
and I have subfolders under the main folder. Some were installed elsewhere and I moved them as a folder under the pertinent VSTPlugins folder. If you add any VST's to your computer, you usually have to scan again - for each program, MM, MEP, ME3.
In MEP, please try it by going to Program Settings, Folder tab and clicking on the Add VST plug-in path button. Navigate to each of the 64 bit locations first.
When done, under the Mixer, click on FX for a track and then the + button. The plugins should now show up.
FYI - the plugin paths for MEP are actually stored in an ini file, VstPlugins.ini under
C:\Users\John\AppData\Roaming\MAGIX\Videodeluxe25_premium
or for you, probably
C:\Users\John\AppData\Roaming\MAGIX\Videodeluxe26_premium
John CB
Hi Ray
. . . . Not a serious comment but it just feels like I'm going around in circles at the moment. . . . .
I know exactly what you mean see last 2 paragraphs below, think we should both have a T-shirt for that!
. . . . If you had looked closely at my earlier seven images you would have noticed me doing this. . . . .
I think you missed the end of the sentence where I said:
. . . . In ME3 this is what I see whether launched from within MEP or as a standalone - the only effect is the am-track_Se, this is the same for the Mastering effects dropdown you are using . . . .
Here is an image using your dialog
Both dialogs do the same thing only displayed in slightly different ways.
Moving forward - I have been doing more testing so can add more results also bear in mind that these are new installs after rebuild with new OS as you have done.
The VSTs were already available in MEP as I had added the path when re-installed, however they are 64 bit and cannot be used by ME3 as it is a 32 bit program - despite being installed within the MEP program folder.
Similarly MEP cannot use 32 bit VST's - I tested this by moving the 64 bit VSTs from their folder and adding the 32 bit VST folder path to MEP- no go only the 64 bit Youlean VST was available in MEP.
Do you have jBridge or similar installed? I do not use it.
@browj2 - I do not think we can exclude MMM from this topic - it acts as another check.
MMM also installs ME3 within its program folders and does not pass any VST data to its ME3.
I actually have ME3 installed 6 times in the respective program folders for MEP 2015, 2016 and 2020, VPX, MMM and Photostory Deluxe - they are all the same version and definitely independent of each other.
. . . . When you did add the vsts were they then accessible from ME3 . . . .
The 32 bit VSTs were not available to ME3 until I used the Options, Path settings in ME3 to add the path to the 32 bit VST folder they were in and as I said in previous post removing the path from the same dialog does not remove the VSTs - only a program reset of ME3 will remove them.
Hope this makes sense to you - I felt like going round in circles typing/correcting this to make sense of what I was seeing - retyped huge chunks 4 times at least.
Perhaps we should start a new club and call it the 'Magix Circle' - OK I hear the groans 😆😆😆
John EB
I have ME3 showing up for each version of MEP/VPX/MMM, but only one under Windows Apps. Thus I have ME showing as installed under:
and several more - but only once in Windows Apps.
Each of the above contains a VSTPlugins folder like:
C:\Program Files (x86)\MAGIX\Music Maker\28\MusicEditor\VstPlugins
and when you actually add VST plugins to the paths of ME3 in the various locations, you will get a VstPlugins.ini file. I have a bunch. So, depending on which ME3 is linked to what and opened from where, adding VST's to the path will add them only to that location.
So, opening ME3 from Music Maker would only have the VST paths that have been done for that version and saved in the ini file. Opening ME3 from MEP would save the VST paths added to its ini file. I think that this is what we were missing.
In my case, something is wrong with the installation on my desktop as ME3 pointing to anything other than MusicMaker returns an error code 6.
John CB
Hi. John EB.
OK it shows in that box but I swear I did not use it or anything else in ME3 to import them.
If it didn't happen when using Music Maker or when I used the 'scan plugin's' from the effects in MEP then I don't know how it happened. But for argument’s sake lets say you are both right and I'm wrong. That I inadvertently did something the correct way and don't remember. Either way I have some plugins in the NE3 editor.
However.
Hi John CB.
And the wheels on the bus go,.........
That's where I found the already highlighted folder when I opened the dialogue box. It was already loaded but I clicked it again anyway. Shut down MEP. Reopened MEP and opened the mixer.
And.
Not sure what more I can do John.
The delay between the mixers adjustments and the visuals is too long (for me) to work with anyway and no way within MEP to get to its ASIO driver to make changes for latency.
That's a point. Are you on Direct X or wave drivers? I'm using the wave driver.
Ray.
Hi John
. . . . ME3 showing up for each version of MEP/VPX/MMM, but only one under Windows Apps . . . .
That should be the one installed with Music Maker, the others do not have a separate installer from the program.
Had a look for the VstPlugins file for all 6 installs in the locations you have given - no such file created when VSTs are added in ME3 I suspect because my programs are a fresh install on new Win 10 install that the locations may be different.
Will search again tomorrow, over here it is time for bed - goodnight.
John EB
Hi Ray,
Strange.
Can you download and install the free version of YouLean Meter 2 from the website, both 32 and 64 bits, locate where it gets installed to in the 64 bit, and navigate to that folder with the VSTplugin installer in MEP? Probably under Steinberg. If that doesn't work, copy the Youlean Loudness Meter 2.dll to be directly under:
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins
and restart MEP and try to load it under Mixer, FX on a track, +.
Failing that, try using the VSTplugin installer again from the Mixer FX and this time go down a level to a folder that has the most likely prospects. Restart MEP and try to load a plugin again.
Failing that, locate the VstPlugins.ini file for MEP which should be somewhere like this:
C:\Users\John\AppData\Roaming\MAGIX\Videodeluxe25_premium
but with your name and probably 26 instead of 25. Open it in Notepad; don't change anything and don't forget to close it.
Do you see any paths like in mine?
John CB
Hi John.
C:\Users\John\AppData\Roaming\MAGIX\Videodeluxe25_premium
That folder path does not exist on my machine.
Nor does. C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins
Ray.
Hi John.
Found folder. Only one text document there and nothing like yours. Mine seems much larger and only seemingly concerned with error codes. The reset of the folders are either empty or have no relevant text files.
My only vst folder is located in Program files (x86) \Cubase 4 and it's relevant sub folders.
Ray.
Hi Ray,
While you're at it, in WE, View, also check "File name extensions" so you can see what you're working with.
I don't think that you opened the correct file. It should be the last one on the list, VstPlugins.ini.
You should add VSTPlugins folders to the root folders like:
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins - for 64 bit plugins
C:\Program Files (x86)\VSTPlugins - for 32 bit plugins
Other than Steinberg VST's, these are where VSTPlugins should be located. I am surprised that nothing created these folders for you.
You don't have any 64 bit plugins for Steinberg?
Under your Steinberg VSTPlugins, there are more folders. Open these to see what you have. Did you try scanning these in MEP?
John CB
Hi John.
I put my vsts in the same default folders that Cubase installs.
For what I do, I have what I need. I spend way more on cars, cameras, and holidays than I do on electronics. 😁
I wasn't aware, and am wary of opening files to read other than text files, so have never bothered in the past.
From your specified location.
The list fails to show the individual folders. Just the plugin list in no particular order.
Sorry for the late reply. My service provider seems to be having intermediate nationwide outages at present.
Ray.
Hi Ray,
I'm surprised that nothing shows up in MEP. I'm pretty sure that it accepts 32 bit plugins. In case it doesn't, please get the YouLean Meter and install both 32 and 64 bit versions. In MEP link to the folder for the 63 bit version.
Are there no 64 bit plugins for Cubase?
John CB
Hi John
. . . . I'm surprised that nothing shows up in MEP. I'm pretty sure that it accepts 32 bit plugins . . . .
I think you may have missed the last part of my comment here starting underneath the image.
. . . . link to the folder for the 63 bit version . . . .
You've lost a bit ! 🙁
John EB
Hi John,
Totally did not recall that - too much multi-tasking or old-age or both, I guess.
There you have it, you only seem to have 32 bit VST's and MEP only takes 64 bit VST's. ME3 only takes 32 bit VST's.
John CB
As an aside, the recent version of Music Maker Premium contains the new coreFX plugins, but only the 32 bit version. These can be linked to ME3 and ACL, SFACL, but not MEP or VPX. There is a 64 bit version that comes with Samplitude Pro X5 Suite and they are upgraded with a Mix slider and some graphing. They can be purchased at a very high price from the Magix.com site - it's more cost effective to upgrade to Samplitude Pro X5 Suite. The 32 bit versions can be purchased through the Store in MusicMaker. It seems that both versions can be used with other products as I found for the 32 bit version.
Second point. I indicated that VST plugins could not be added to objects in MEP/VPX. This is not exactly correct; there is a way but it is limited. Under Effects, Audio, General, adjust the AUX1 or 2 which will send the audio from the object to the FX tracks in the Mixer. You have to get the FX strips to show up by temporarily moving the sends sliders for a track in the Mixer and then back to 0. This will open the FX strips as shown.
Still waiting for you to try out some 64 bit VST's in MEP, like the YouLean Meter 2.
John CB