Thanks for the reply. I know that I haven't changed whatever the default is. I used to know how to change the Encoder setting (the selection was under Help in previous MEP versions.), but I can't find where to even see what I have. The Help file says under Advanced settings, but I don't see it where there's a selection for Main Concept.

Under Advanced in the Export window, I see a Hardware encoding selection which is not checked (yet), but I don't think this is what you're referring to.

Looking forward to your reply!

Hi Kami

If you paid for the MainConcept codec then the option to change the codec used is here in the program settings

If you only have the Intel codec then there will be no option shown above.

HTH

John EB

Hi John, That's for the MPEG4. My problem with with plain mpg.

(Not sure I understand the reason for the MPEG4 codec because I can export to mp4 now.)

Hi Kami

. . . . My problem with with plain mpg. . . . .

Oops - I thought you were referring to mpeg 4 also known as mp4.

Can you post a screenshot of the mpg export dialog Advanced setting dialog please.

@ Peter

. . . . MPEG2 HD template - HD Archive1920x1080i and that you are exporting with the Main Concept encoder . . . .

I have no option to use the MC codec for exporting MPG on my system !

John EB

Here ya go....

Hi Kami

Looks like from your screenshot that you are using the Default Intel Codec but i suspect MEP is having a 'fit' because you have set a non standard frame rate of 59fps instead of 59.94fps. However, as there is no export template for either frame rate this may fail as well, as it does with the MC encoder on my system. I will need to test a little more with the Intel.

John - Magix stopped including the MPEG2 Mainconcept encoder in versions of MEP 2015 and later but it will become available if you install 2014 or an earlier version and then open the Record screen in 2017 and choose HDV Recording, whereupon a message will appear asking if you would like to install it. Same for late versions of VPX.

I used 59fps because it's what Windows Explorer shows. I just tried one short video (which isn't edited yet) at 59.94, changed to it in both Movie Settings and the in Export window. It worked! <knock-on-wood> I'll post when I try more complicated videos. Thanks!

Hi Kami/Peter

. . . . MEP is having a 'fit' because you have set a non standard frame rate of 59fps instead of 59.94fps . . . .

After testing it does indeed look like the encoder is have a 'hissy fit' with a frame rate higher then the maximum 30 fps available from the drop down menu.

The same also applies with trying 1080i at framerates higher than 30fps.

@ Peter

Will look into the installation of MC thanks for the heads up.

John EB

Hi Kami/Peter

. . . . MEP is having a 'fit' because you have set a non standard frame rate of 59fps instead of 59.94fps . . . .

After testing it does indeed look like the encoder is have a 'hissy fit' with a frame rate higher then the maximum 30 fps available from the drop down menu.

The same also applies with trying 1080i at framerates higher than 30fps.

John EB

 

 

The 1080I files show as 29 fps in Windows Explorer, which "fits" w/o the "hissy". 😁

Kami

I was able to export several more 1080P videos with no problem. But I noticed subtle but noticeable large cross-hairs in some scenes. Never saw that before. So I experimental and exported a couple of them at 29.97. MEP puts up a message that it's not the same as the movie setting (59.94), but I hit Continue and had no problem. These were cleaner than the same ones exported at 59.94.

Now I'm SO confused! The only thing that makes sense to me is that the mpgs exported at 29.97 are slightly smaller than those at 59.94.

So it appears you Kami are the only one who can export MPEG2 HD at 59.94FPs as I found the same 30fps limitation as John EB experienced.

These were cleaner than the same ones exported at 59.94.

I am not surprised that @ half the frame rate it was cleaner because each frame would be compressed half as much if you used the same low bitrate as in your screen shot.

I am surprised you are using this 6 Mbps bitrate as the recorded bitrate of your 60fps camera files should be about 28 Mbps if they are recorded in AVCHD - which would be equivalent to about 45Mbps in MPEG2 HD with its inherently lower compression efficiency.

I guess you got a watchable result because the frames in your movie do not contain a lot of detail with much of the frame being sky which is easily compressed.

Peter

I didn't realize that the frame rate referred to *compression*. I thought it referrer to showing more *detail*, which is why I thought the 1080P at 60 fps would give me better picture quality than 1080I. So far, I don't see much of a difference. Record format is AVCHD; the original video files are MTS.

While there is some sky in my videos, much of it isn't. Is it the 1080P exported at 30 fps which you wouldn't expect to see as much detail?

Thanks for the reply. Still somewhat confused.

Kami

Hi Kami

A higher frame rate is used to give you more fluid action and panning in progressive recordings, rather than having an effect on detail or sharpness. The thing that is relevant to compression, when you set a target bit rate in your export settings, is the maximum amount of bits (data) that setting can then make available to each frame in your movie. If this maximum amount available is set too low then the encoder must compress each frame more than is optimum to fit into this limited data stream. The result of this is a loss of detail in fine structures in your frame, especially in rapidly changing content or high motion.

So the big thing in your case is that if you double the frame rate from 30fps to 60fps without near doubling the target bit rate in the export settings, for the same footage the encoder will compress each frame twice as much with a subsequent decrease in quality.

Whether you would in fact need to double the bit rate when changing the export frame rate from 30 to 60fps depends on the complexity of your different frames and whether there is enough "overhead" in the data rate you set for the 30fps to still give enough perceived quality in the 60fps export. IOW - in the example of the small bird against a lot of uniform sky you may not see much difference in those frames in the respective different frame rate encodes.

HTH

Peter

Hi Peter. Thanks so much for the explanation, which I very much needed. I think describing what I record would be helpful. Birds are my largest subject, but they're mostly (98%) on the grass, often with foliage in the background. My next frequent subject are my cats, all indoors and often in low light and backlit conditions. I also like to record, from my balcony, aircraft and distant watercraft, but with those quality isn't nearly as important to me as the birds and cats.

So, based on the information you gave me, I'm still not sure would be best for me (for the birds and cats) for the best quality. Retaining detail is most important -- e.g., capturing feather detail which I rarely did when recording in SD -- but the video "artifacts" I get in 1080P/60 fps distract from that. (One exception with the birds is when I'm able to record Hawks circling rather close. With all their frequent turns, it's difficult to pan smoothly, and I often have to cut out lots of frames.)

Perhaps I'd be better going back to recording in 1080I/30 fps?

Kami

Hi Kami

It really depends on how important the size of your files are and what you are going to display them on / via. If you are just playing them at home on your computer and TV then I would keep all parameters the same as the camera originals - ie 1080 60P (assuming your TV or Media player can handle 60P).

I record in 50P here in PAL land and use the MPEG4 - AVCHD Transport Stream 1920x1080 50P HQ template in MEP for all my exports and find the rendered footage virtually indistinguishable to the original footage, on my 50" plasma TV.

50P and 60P give the ultimate smoothness and detail although 25 and 30fps interlaced can approach the smooth ness during panning because of the fact that you get 2 glimpses per frame due to the scanning of alternate lines which occurs during each frames' recording.

Another reason I record 50fps is that it will stabilise more cleanly with Mercalli (your Hawk footage) and there are more frames available for slow motion creation, without interpolation.

If file size is important due to storage or streaming/upload considerations then you should consider 30fps interlaced for your recording and export plus reduce the bitrate. MEP will have a bitrate that is lower already set in the 30i export templates so use one of these without modification.

Peter

Hi, thanks again for the deytailed reply. You don't see "artifacts" at 50 or 60 fps?

What's most important to me is clean, sharp details without "artifacts." I have plenty of HD space. Being in NYC, my only choice is NTSC. I could be wrong, but the only HD options I see are 1080i/30p or 1080p/30 or 60p. MEP's default list has only 24, 25, 29.97 and 30.

I like the Progressive setting the best.

Right now I watch videos on my computer monitors, 1920x1080 @60 Hz. (I lost interest in DVD authoring because I don't have the time and never watch them.)

I use Mercalli a lot, but there's just so much it can do. When a bird goes from top to bottom or end to end in 2 to 4 frames, I don't expect Mercalli to help, so delete those frames. (-: (I'm going to post a question about Mercalli.)

Thanks, Kami

You don't see "artifacts" at 50 or 60 fps?

As I said earlier - I record in 50P here in PAL land and use the MPEG4 - AVCHD Transport Stream 1920x1080 50P HQ template in MEP for all my exports and find the rendered footage virtually indistinguishable to the original footage, on my 50" plasma TV.

Maybe you are still trying to export to MPEG(2) and not MPEG4? Use the template from the preset dropdown as above (without modification) but in your case frame rate should say 59.94 and your export will be identical in quality to your camera footage. This template will encode a file at 28Mbps with much fewer artifacts than your original 6Mbps MPEG2 export.

I would also untick the "Use Anti-interlace filter" in the Export window, as this will create a loss of resolution in your exported video.

Peter

Thanks! All info much appreciated.

This is a follow-up. I've been exporting with WMV and the MP4 seleciton which gives me m2ts. Both formats produce excellent results. No matter what I did with mpg, I can't get rid of the artifacts. So I've come to the conclusion that mpg cannot handle 59 fps HD video, and am giving up on it.

Since the MP4 and WMV export selections produce equal results, and both are incredibly sloooow, I haven't decided which one to go with.

Thanks again for the input I received here. It was very helpful.

Kami

Hi Kami

. . . . the MP4 seleciton which gives me m2ts . . . .

That is caused by accepting the default export format from the dropdown which is AVCHD.

For the MP4 format select one of the MP4 options shown below

These are the Intel codec presets, if you are using the MainConcept codec then the names are different - IIRC they are called HD TV . . . . for mp4

HTH

John EB