Will the AMD systems work as well as Intel? I hear they are a bit less costly.

@Schmacker

Hi Bob.

Possibly some of the newer Ryzen processors may work well and I know some of the testing of the current version of MEP was done using a Ryzen CPU but I think they had an additional Intel chip for the graphics side of things and an additional NVIDIA 1060 graphics card with 6Gig of inboard ram to cope, and that alone would eat up at least half your budget. They also used relatively new AMD chip-sets which may be on a par with the i7 cost wise.

In all honesty I don't know. I used an AMD processor some time back but switched to Intel. The AMD machine always felt a bit clunky in use although it worked.

I think most of the people active here use Intel so our replies may be a bit biased and as I haven't recently used anything AMD based I'm probably not the best person to ask that question to.

But remember which ever way you go you will need a very fast SSD for your C: drive and up your power supply output as your current one would just about power something used at a banks cashier till. Also don't forget to factor in the cost of the new operating system.

Ray.

I found this one. Its such a small for factor that I'm afraid it would be difficult to keep it cool. What do you think?

make / manufacturer: HP
model name / number: ProDesk 600 G4
Brand New E223 Monitor (22 inch)
HP ProDesk 600 G4 with an i7 core 8th Generation
500gb Solid State Hard Drive
16gb Memory
Keyboard
Mouse
Windows 10
Microsoft Office Professional

That would be my worry as well Bob but I think I found the spec sheets.

A lot of different ones within that spec of machine though.

Which one is it?

http://www8.hp.com/h20195/V2/GetPDF.aspx/c06043924

They all appear to have an Intel graphics chip but no idea about the motherboards.

I've not much cared for HP monitors in the past but haven't seen a newer one.

These are sold as business machines but do have 8th generation chips in.

Compared to building one of similar spec it seems cheaper. Perhaps you could sell bits you didn't want and put the board inside a larger case and put in your own cooling? Then again, would the ports line up into a tower case?

A lot to think about for sure.

Unfortunately its the small Pro desk version. I've got a monitor, so that's not an issue.

With the small form factor I'm afraid upgrades would be a challenge also. It's only $350 but I think I'll be better off to wait till I can afford one of these:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Bobyon/saved/#view=FRzL23

or

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Bobyon/saved/#view=TRCWbv

The interesting thing about these is the integrate vs non-integrated graphics. Having to buy a graphics card wipes out any savings on the AMD.

Do you think there is much difference in MEP between these cards:

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/GVFXsY,XNjJ7P/

I think I read somewhere that MEP works better with nvidia but these cards use the same chipset so do you think there would be a noticable difference?

@Schmacker

Hi

I am running pure Intel at the moment - see my signature for the spec and I am very satisfied with the UHD 630 iGPU performance with 4K video, you will also note that I do not have SSD's fitted, disc read and write speeds are not the limiting factor even when working with 4K video.

I will be adding one or more SSD' and a NVidia GPU, however these are for another application not related to video editing.

. . . . I'm afraid it would be difficult to keep it cool . . . .

This should not be an issue - my laptop runs MEP fine with 4K video which puts a heavy load on the processor and GPU and overheating has not been an issue.

If the processor ( i5-8500 ) starts getting too warm, the Intel Speedstep thermal management technology will reduce the clock speed to reduce overheating.

The only issues with a small form PC is that you may be limited in the size of for example graphics cards you may want to add at a later date.

HTH

John EB

@Schmacker

As far as I can tell the amount of processors seem to be the main deciding factor on export speed unless you are using effects as well or using hardware encoding H264 or HEVC where the graphics card if you have one seems to help with HEVC or so I've been informed in the past. Difficult to tell with the new version of MEP. I'm still trying to figure out what is responsible for which bit but it seems to vary depending on what effects and export settings are used. My old i5 used to get very hot without additional cooling and at present I've no real way of measuring the temperature of my new processor but it's not working anywhere near as hard as my old one. Possibly because it has more cores than the i5 and more virtual processors of which my old processor didn't appear to have any. However I do have a huge heat-pipe CPU cooler in my system and it does kick up a gear when exporting video allowing it to run at around a constant 4.7GHz. Even then as John has said the drives don't really spin up unless you are using a lot of parallel video or audio tracks at which point faster drives seem to help. The internal Intel graphics chip seems more important initially than a graphics card in general use. You could add one later when you have had time to save. That's what I intend to do and I am using a less well specified card from my previous build for now and even that isn't really being that hard pushed.

Both of those graphics cards are nice but the more expensive one is probably overkill for video work.

That was the same conclusion I came to about using AMD chip-sets although as CPU's they have improved over the years.

Have been away sometime now and notice that several post mentioned AMD & NVDIA cards. So has MEP finally took the red pill now?

From what I know back awhile ago, you will need to have Intel setup as MEP only supports hardware acceleration based on Intel QuickSync ( or something like that)... so have this changed? I noticed in one post that mentioned only in the editor this AMD/NVDIA is useful and exporting still the same old "old".

Also I recently picked up a iCore 5 to iCore 7 and added 14GB to 32GB, due to an old friend upgrading his gaming rig. So with more cores, I don't see significant improvements in exporting. IIRC, there was one or two posting (which I cannot find now... or may be it's a blog) that someone compared multiple cores using MEP and again no significant difference in exporting. That post or blog was like couple of years old. I wonder if it is true but anecdotally it does seems so. My Nvdia just sits there coolly during the export, helping sparingly now and then with the effects only.

Given that multi-core Ryzen are an order cheaper than Intel, if MEP support hardware APU for exporting, then AMD is a good buy but if not then good bye.

Still looking for more information on MEP on AMD, information on this is so lacking. So anyone has a good resource with MagiX may be have some good news ?

@wongck

I personally have no idea if AMD is better on its own or not. We (people on this forum) did find interviews on the net about the latest update to MEP and its new Infusion engine that appeared to have been tested on (among others we assume) a PC using an unspecified AMD Ryzen system that also had some form of Intel graphics chip and an NVIDIA 1060 6GB graphics card, so not so run-of-the-mill system.

I can't say whether or not the new version of MEP is as fast as claimed in real terms or not. Too many variables to consider within each project as it would depend on export settings and effects used, number of individual tracks etc. within a project.

But. I've since gone from using an old i5 Intel processor to an i9 but so far not updated my old graphics card (See my signature for complete details) and ran an old project for export that previously took just over 16 hours to render and it took just over two hours on my new build.

As far as export speeds are concerned. The increases are best when hardware acceleration can be employed which is certainly the case using an MP4 export. I'm new to my new machine build and as yet have to try using HEVC to confirm that too is of some benefit but so far, so good.

I'm sure those that have not upgraded their machine will give their views on this subject.

Maybe someone using AMD will chip in.

16 to 2 hours that's very good !! 400%. What was your CPU before the change?

@wongck

Now you are asking 😅 Early i5, ivy bridge four core 3.2GHz. Possibly an i5-T3470.

LOL.... explains the massive improvement.

If I would upgrade to that I would also I should also see better improvement as my upgrade was from the same 4th generation i5 to i7 (no change in mobo). In fact for mine, the single core benchmark for my i5 is better than i7 as the i5 is half a generation ahead ( is a haswell refresh clocking at a higher clock rate). So if MEP truly don't care much about cores, then that i5 would be a better choice.

But I guess more cores surely will have an affect, surely, just less noticeable in timing. But OTOH, I know if I surf the web while waiting for the render, it should not slow it down nor I expect slow performance on my surfing.

@wongck

I presume you have seen this topic pages 1 & 3:- https://www.magix.info/uk/forum/any-problems-to-expect-if-upgrading-cpu-mb-and-operating-system--1230141/?page=3

......that someone compared multiple cores using MEP and again no significant difference in exporting.

Yes, that was a German member who compared something like a 6 core @ 3.4GHz i7 to a 4 core i7 @4.2Ghz and found that increased clock speed performed better than more cores.

@CubeAce

The internal Intel graphics chip seems more important initially than a graphics card in general use.

This seems to be the case even since the upgraded engine where I have not observed a lot of new activity on the Nvidia GPU during playback or rendering in MEP2020.......but during playback in VPX11 I can see a huge increase in activity, 90 - 100% on the Nvidia in Task Manager, mainly due to decode activity on the CUDA cores, but only with HEVC. As far as I can deduce, the GPU cores are not utilised during HEVC encoding with this being handled by the NVENC chip on the discreet Nvidia card.

Without the additional card or in MEP2020 the tasks are accelerated by the Intel iGPU but not to the same impressive level of performance during playback of HEVC in VPX11, it seems from my tests. I am somewhat confused though as to whether MEP 2020 should be showing the same 5.8x playback speed improvement as VPX, not helped by the article from the Magix guy in the post I linked above where he talks about MEP2020 then quotes results from a test with VPX11.

Peter

No actually not read it. Thanks.

Just as I thought I was beginning to understand things, then, those last couple posts have me confused. So, is more cores the way to go, or fewer cores with higher speeds.

Regardless, I think I have a found a pretty good used deal, What do you think of this setup?

 

Here I have a CyberPowerPC - GMA3600BOOST (tweaked a little) This is a high performing budget PC, I purchased this at Best Buy only a couple months ago and have only used a handful of times as I have purchased another computer. Here are the specs:

Windows 10 AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Processor

NVIDIA GTX 1650 Graphics Card 4GB (recently installed and upgraded over previous GPU)

8GB Geil Evo Potenza RAM (can expand, 3 additional slots)

2TB Hard Drive

240GB SSD

Gigabit LAN Ports,

WiFi Coolermaster CPU Cooler

MSI B450 Bazooka Motherboard

I'm sure I'll need to add more RAM and I'm not sure about the speeds of the existing RAM, nor the hard drives.

But, for $500, doesn't look to bad.

Thoughts?

@Scenestealer

I think we are all confused as to what does which bit and when. Quite a bit of my new system seems overwhelmingly underused when exporting but it's still tons quicker than my old system without breaking a sweat.

From what I'm reading here, either the inboard Intel graphics or a higher end NVIDIA graphics seems responsible for better playback real-time in MEP. I haven't tried MEP with just the Intel chip in use as I'm a lead short of using two monitors. I don't have the latest sockets for monitors and need a new lead for one of the motherboards graphics outputs. Certainly, while my current aging NVIDIA card is doing better than it was it isn't coping as well as some others systems are on this forum for playback. Export times for HEVC are quicker on my new system. Nearer x6 than x8 for MP4 so maybe possibly down to my old graphics card which is at least seems to be doing the job as I no longer get the 'No Hardware acceleration' dialogue on the export box that I got on the old setup and using the latest version of MEP.

Certainly nothing on my system seems to be getting anywhere near 50% of its performance limit. The CPU cores are running around 4.7GHz though. Well above their base frequency of 3.6GHz (I think).

If there is a bottleneck in the system I can only imagine it's either a: I don't have access to the inboard Intel graphics or b: My NVIDIA card is just not as up to the job as if I was using a 1060 6gig card.

@Schmacker

What can I say? You can see from the conversations going on in this thread we are also trying to figure out what works best. All I can say is the Ryzen you quote, when I looked it up is only six cores which would be no better than a four core Intel CPU and possibly worse if the clock speeds are lower.

The SSD should be fine. Most 7200rpm hard drives should be fine if their caches are reasonably large but should be robust as they have to do a lot of read/write. I prefer WD, Samsung or Hitachi drives. Others prefer Seagate but I've had failures on those in the past and personally not so keen but that's more personal experience and prejudice than possible fact of reliability.

Also look up the price of the ram. If he's quoting 8gig then its quite probable he has two sticks of 4gig in it. That may make an additional two sticks of 4gig quite cheap but on the other hand if the ram is no longer made (and that happens quite often) you may find you can't match the existing ram. So find out what ram it has and if there are any existing supplies of it around.

For instance, the ram in my new build, all new components, is already discontinued. Mad or what?

As for ram speed, I think my son said any DDR4 ram clock speeds should be sufficient for video editing. Maybe someone else can confirm that.

Even then, when we talk among ourselves here we have different needs. Some are editing 4K footage but at lower bit rates and frame speeds than others. I've so far stuck to 1080p but I'm starting do dabble with 2.7K as MEP as far as I can see, can't export 4K at 60fps as yet.

One thing you haven't mentioned yet is your editing needs beyond the system itself. Do you need to future proof?

Do you need to just cut, splice and join, or will you use effects, fades, or LUTS?

What are your export needs?

What are your source files?

You may not need an mega system but just a more powerful one.

Ray.

@Schmacker

After a lot of setting up of my new system I think I would say it's the Intel processor on the CPU chip that seems to make the most difference. It seems to enable other bits on my PC to run with better optimisation of the components. Look at the current end of my Upgrading Problems thread.

One thing you haven't mentioned yet is your editing needs beyond the system itself. Do you need to future proof?

Honestly, I'm not even sure what my needs are. I'm a complete rookie. I know I want to record and edit some training videos.

Do you need to just cut, splice and join, or will you use effects, fades, or LUTS?

Probable just basic cut, splice and join but I'm sure at some point I will geek out and do some fancy transitions, titles, fades, or whatever. Not because I need to, but just because I can. I don't even know what LUTS is/are.

What are your export needs?

Again, I'm not real certain. I expect probably just export MP4 files that I can make available to my students or other prospective purchasers. I may at some point put some stuph on Youtube but have no immediate plans for that. Also, I might want to burn some to disk; DVD or whatever.

What are your source files?

Probably, mostly me sitting in front of my C920 intermixed with some screen recordings as I demonstrate things. Actually, as I think about it now, it could end up being mostly screen recordings or even just slide presentations with voice recordings. (I may discover that seeing MY face on camera does not help sell the videos.)

Beyond that, maybe the occasional pictures or videos from my phone of me walking through a house I am working on. (I buy, rehab and sell houses.)

You may not need an mega system but just a more powerful one.

That may very well be true.

I first started thinking about this because I'm too lazy to disconnect my keyboard, monitor, speakers, mic, etc from my laptop and carry it to an adjacent office which I am setting up as where I plan to do the recordings. I realized the time and hassle of disconnecting and reconnecting things in the other office/studio was becoming an excuse to not shoot the training videos. So a dedicated system in the 2nd office seemed to be wise. And, because I kinda new that video editing and such could put a pretty good strain on a system I thought it wise to take the pressure off my daily use laptop.

Then I just got excited about the proposition of building a kewl system.

I guess my inability to pull the trigger on a particular system is from having not really convinced myself yet that these video training courses are a profitable proposition. And, if they are not, I really should not be spending much money on this effort because the system will have very little other use. I'm not even a gamer.

Thanks,
Bob

[[MENTION:undefined]]

In that case Bob I would definitely recommend you go with an i7 with an inbuilt graphics chip. There should be little need for a dedicated graphics card of the one they tested the latest version of Movie Edit Pro on. An SSD C: drive would be nice but a fast SATA should suffice using a second fast drive would be also be a good idea. The amount of ram may be subjective depending on how long your videos are likely to be. I don't make videos much longer than 15 minutes and the 32gig I have seems at present to be overkill, but I would go for 16gig if you can afford it to be on the safe side. Maybe a Blu-Ray or DVD recorder as well. I think most folks on here are on i7 processors and are handling 4K footage. It's only the render times that need the oomph from your perspective. DVD which is the equivalent of 720p is not that great a strain on a system whereas if you wanted to go HD then it would cope with that reasonably as well. RAM speed as long as it's DDR4 should not be a problem.

The problem with making any video is keeping control of it once its released. Copies are too easily made in this day and age no matter how hard you try to stop it. If the video is a part of a paid for online course, that may work better than selling DVDs.