@Scenestealer

Hi Peter. Don't worry, please take your time, I'm in no rush.

The first still would have been me using the standard MEP settings for an export at that resolution and frame rate of 50fps. That also does something else to the encoding section which then only allows To get a higher bit rate for the project which is select a lower amount of passes on the re-coding which is where I think the extra artifacts are created so maybe calling it sharpening is wrong as it seems to be a part of the re-coding passes that compress and maybe smooth out the detail with each pass. For instance I prefer any export setting that allows me to select 4.1 in the level section over a higher number (I've always assumed this is the amount of times the code looks and alters each frame and with each pass less detail is recorded as the amount of bits used comes down) I don't know if that is a correct assumption or not but going on what my eyes see in differences of output)

The yellow rings are sections I have to alter manually while the red ring is the lowest available number in the Level selection section.

Some MEP export settings won't allow me to get a setting as low as 4.1 or even 4.2 but start at 5.2. It varies depending on which preset you start with. Some things need to be altered to match the frame rates and resolutions when a given preset is selected and that in turn sometimes make some selections to go missing or get greyed out. I never touch the max min Bit Rate selection as getting that wrong will more often than not either cause MEP to malfunction of end up with video that is unusable. (It can come out blank or juddery or worse cause MEP to malfunction)

Speaking of which, last night while playing around yet again with export settings I found a selection that allowed me to render the project I gave you in 8mins 37seconds. The result looks good and allowed me to select HRD and Smart Rendering.

Even the individual components working are not being worked any harder by the looks of things. Why I bother to play around like this is mainly because of uploading to YouTube where once they re-render the upload, the resulting video can lose a lot of quality. Sometimes the difference I see between renders at my end are not great or even perceptible to my eye, but once uploaded there can be large differences in quality.

[Edit] Now, this morning. I now can't find that preset, although I could have sworn I saved it.🙁

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

First I need to point out that the Default MP4 encoder in MEP is only selectable to carry out one pass encoding. The Mainconcept encoder can do 2 pass but I have never seen the need to go there as it is really only useful if you are wanting the absolutely smallest file size with the best degree of quality within a size constraint.

The Profile and Level settings would not normally be altered as they are there to offer constraints on the coding for a certain maximum frame rate, bitrate and and quality for the benefit of decoders in various applications, so that the decoder knows "what it is going to get" so to speak. I certainly would not restrict them to a lower level but I guess you could increase them if you say raised the bitrate in a MEP export template from what was set, but my suggestion is that they have been set in the program to suit the template and as such I would not alter them myself. You probably run the risk of making the file unplayable by doing so also.

I have been having a good play with your project and have found that I can only get smooth timeline playback with the Blue Flash set to Reduce Resolution in either MEP or VPX.

Encoding is interesting though, with the UHD preset which opened with the "Export File to HEVC" and "Calc. VFX on GPU" ticked, after a glacially slow encoding of the first 7secs of the movie it completed in 29mins 31 secs via MEP2020. Opening the project in VPX11 gave similar preview performance, but the encode was 2x faster at 14min 37secs, where it would have been encoding via the NVENC chip on the Nvidia 1060.

Encoding to UHD H.264 using the 80Mbps preset plus VFX on GPU completed in 29mins via MEP and VPX.

Encoding to AVCHD H.264 1920x1080 50P HQ (.mts) preset which is the one I think you used, without Smart render went through in a swift slightly less than 6 mins in both programs. BTW I doubt if any of the material in your project would have been able to smart render being heavy on FX and not H.264.

So some significant improvements over the times you are seeing on your system which apart from the discreet Graphics card would seem to be more capable than mine, so it might lead me to believe that a better Nvidia card might let you see some gains in MEP. Especially in a project like the Santa Run which is heavy on FX and appears to be doing quite a lot on the Nvidia, maxing out your 1030 at times.

Then you would be all set up to take advantage of VPX if you decided to upgrade in the future. Imagine if the .MOV clip was HEVC allowing that section to decode via NVDEC on the Nvidia as well - then we might see some serious speed!

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

Thank you for such a comprehensive look and reply.

So a bit more background for you.

Although I have the main concept MP4 encoder I have not found it to be better than the one supplied with MEP so far, so I haven't used it for general work yet and stuck with MEP's own. This project though I've mainly stuck to trying HEVC. I would only ever use a compression to make a finished file small if someone asked me if they could have a copy of the video. I seldom ever put anything up on the web at the same resolution I have a master of. It's an easier way of proving I own the original version. Same as I crop the outside of any stills image I take so anyone else can't provide a complete image if disputes arise.

The lower quality still I put up earlier where the chains among other things seemed to suffer was with MEPs own settings for the resolution for the frame rate and resolution the original video was shot at. The main difference as far as I can see is MEP thinks the average bit rate for that resolution and frame rate of file should be around 80mbs whereas the camera I use is producing 100mbs average bit rate files. Some of the newer cameras are now producing 200mbs files for the same resolutions. MAGIX formulas may be a bit behind current camera specs, I don't know but in any case I've copied the Data from one of my original clips from one of my cameras.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Ray\Desktop\DJI_0146.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : JVT
Codec ID                                 : avc1 (avc1/isom)
File size                                : 66.7 MiB
Duration                                 : 5 s 540 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 101 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-11-23 17:37:16
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-11-23 17:37:16
Comment                                  : DE=D-CLike, Type=Normal, HQ=Normal, Mode=P
gpt                                      : -0.80
gyw                                      : -180.30
grl                                      : +0.00

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 5 s 540 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 100.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.241
Stream size                              : 66.4 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : DJI.AVC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-11-23 17:37:16
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-11-23 17:37:16
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 5 s 525 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 128 KiB (0%)
Title                                    : DJI.AAC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-11-23 17:37:16
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-11-23 17:37:16

Other
Type                                     : meta
Duration                                 : 1 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Default                                  : No

So to increase the bit rate for say a 1080p resolution file I will use a 2.7k or 4K template that has the same frame rate and then reduce the frame size for the export. That seems to keep the bit rate min/max figures in line as guessing those or even trying to work out the ratios seems beyond my ability and does indeed cause problems. It may well be overkill and doesn't need that extreme but seems to be the only way I can get the copy to be closer to the original or more importantly, stop YouTube from compressing the bejeses out of it on upload. File size at that point is of no interest one way or the other to me.

You are right though. Beyond a certain point a file can be rendered unplayable or not not stable although having said that, if the resulting upload to YouTube works, it often produces a good looking end result that I find confusing to say the least.

Having to set the playback in MEP to a lower resolution doesn't surprise me and half expected that. I can get away with just reducing frame rate or quality. Either works on its own.

You are most probably right about the resolution setting in my experimental export the other night but I did get the Smart Rendering option and used it. I also found it odd I should have the option offered as the live action footage is time-Iapse. I will try to see if I can get that to happen again to get screen shot of.

I was hoping there would be an advantage to getting a better graphics card and it would seem to be the better next upgrade when I get to that point in time. That will have to be quite a time after Christmas now as I am expecting some heavy additional expenditure over the next few months on things non film related. A new set of brake disks and pads for my Mini Cooper being one of them. But now have two reasons to consider upgrading to VPX in future and a new graphics card. The 1060 6GB cards have been steadily coming down in price so maybe by the time I can afford one it will be cheaper still and the bugs will have been ironed out of VPX.

I have not seen my card maxed out yet in MEP, it seldom gets pushed beyond 47% usage and I've never used mov. to record files to my knowledge with my current cameras.

Although speed and smooth playback without restricting output would be nice to have, I'm not that bothered about current render speeds. They have much improved over my old system already and don't have to leave projects exporting overnight any more and I'm no longer at the mercy of having to use proxy files all the time.

I do appreciate the time you have put into this Peter and hope you have gained something from it as well.

I've had to work most of the day today so didn't get to the Dickens Festival which I will now have to try to do all of it tomorrow. I hope the weather holds as it was an ideal day today, We even had thick fog this morning which would have worked well. Oh well!

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

The lower quality still I put up earlier where the chains among other things seemed to suffer was with MEPs own settings for the resolution for the frame rate and resolution the original video was shot at. The main difference as far as I can see is MEP thinks the average bit rate for that resolution and frame rate of file should be around 80mbs whereas the camera I use is producing 100mbs average bit rate files.

I just would not have expected to see those artifacts appear with only a 20% reduction of quite a high bitrate. In fact I just tried exporting some DJI drone footage at of similar spec. and bitrate as in your media info but 30fps, to H.264 29.94fps with a VBR of only 65Mbps, and it looked slightly less noisy (smoother) and no less detailed than the original even under high magnification.

I have not seen my card maxed out yet in MEP, it seldom gets pushed beyond 47% usage

Whilst I realise that you are not seeing 100% load in your exports I was referring to the ScrS of TM during preview of this project where your Nvidia was maxed out whereas mine shows only 30-40%, indicating that the 1030 may be struggling with some tasks.

I've never used mov. to record files to my knowledge with my current cameras.

I don't know what application you used to create the timelapse video but it appears as a .mov in your project!

I have enjoyed playing around with your project as it is quite different to my projects in the number of tracks and multiple object layers and effects. It has given me a chance to see how MEP and VPX perform under these conditions and to compare with another more modern system, so thank you!

Peter