Not possible to exchange clip and retain length?

Eaglezone wrote on 9/26/2017, 7:09 AM

I am sure you could do this before(!) Referring to swapping a clip on the timeline with some other clip, so that the new clip starts at the same point as the one being replaced BUT ALSO ends at the same point as the clip being replaced. That behaviour is what I want most of the time from a clip replacement, as I want to keep the video synced with the music/sounds of the overall project (the "guide" audio, if you will.)

Obviously it is easy to swap clips retaining relative lengths using templates and Fastcut etc, but in normal editing I can't seem to achieve it?! The ripple modes obviously move things down, which I would expect, but the exchange and overwrite modes both mess with the established timeline too. I want to "exchange" the clip without exchanging the carefully laid out timing, but unless I have missed something (not impossible!) there is no way to make a new clip "fit" an existing clip, at least not in normal editing.

I swear you could do this on previous versions in storyline mode! Was basically the only time I used storyline mode. You had to make sure the relevant clips were on track 1, but then you could lock the track and drag a clip on top of another clip to replace that clip only (and the new clip would end after the same duration as the original clip... So could just select an "in" point and drag it on, then judge the end result.) Trying that now doesn't work, as locking the track prevents the replacement of any clips. Which I imagine could be considered expected behaviour, maybe it was a bug before? but point is there is now no way of swapping like-for-like, despite all the numerous import options. Can of course adjust manually, but all that time adds up and is a creativity killer.

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 9/26/2017, 11:16 AM

I have tested this in MEP 2014, 2015 and 2018 the behaviour I get is :

Exchange option

Maintaining the same length of an object works only with images, video objects are not matched to the length of the object being replaced.

This makes sense - how would the program know where to cut a longer video clip to match the length of a shorter one or, exchanging with a shorter clip what does it do to fill the gap?

Overwrite option

Images overwrite with the default length set in the program settings, if the image being overwritten is longer than the default then the image being replaced is split and the replacement image is added at the default length.

The split and replacement occurs where the start of the new image is dropped, you can end up with for example the new image occupying the centre section of a longer image while maintaining the same length, eg a 10 second clip (A) replaced with a 7 second clip (B) and the start of the replacement is dropped at 2 secs into clip A will give the following

A for 2 secs, B for 7 sec, A for 1 sec - the overall length is maintained at 10 secs.

Video - if the video is longer than the one being replaced everything moves to accommodate it, if the video is shorter then the behaviour is the same as for an image.

HTH

John EB

Eaglezone wrote on 9/26/2017, 6:21 PM

Maintaining the same length of an object works only with images, video objects are not matched to the length of the object being replaced.

This makes sense - how would the program know where to cut a longer video clip to match the length of a shorter one or, exchanging with a shorter clip what does it do to fill the gap?

Huge thanks for going to that trouble! Those results aren't what I would want to hear, was hoping for some sort of revelation and some method I had overlooked, but still worth knowing.

As to the specific remark above though, the program knows where existing clips start/end... That data is part of the project info, I mean, how is it recreating the custom length clips again every time you open an old project? And of course, overwriting clips to certain sizes is how the templates work and how Fastcut works and how 3-point editing works re: the ProX range. You can set a start point to import without having an end point, as the end point can be calculated from the existing range or clip (area previously occupied by a clip if you delete it as well, that is then a target range.)

Also, it clearly knows the correct data to place the photos, so has the same data to place the videos! Just hasn't been set to do it that way. Possibly for good reason, but dunno (might cause a lot of crashes etc)

I rediscovered this media insert situation recently when trying the free version of DaVinci Resolve. There are different options of filling gaps with that software, so you can insert a clip with a start point and it can find the suitable end point automatically, or if the import is too short it can adjust the speed to fill etc. Didn't get too deep as it has problems with Nvidia even worse than Magix! Heh. And was just for curiosity mainly.

Came back to Magix with increased desire to have better workflow regarding importing, and vague memories of being able to do it a better way in the past. Is mainly when matching clips set to music etc, so is maybe not noticeable for everyone. I think the best workaround for what I want... is to just delete any clip to be replaced, set the range markers above the created gap, then use overwrite to import a clip of similar length... Can then deal with the minor mess that will cause (probably slightly overwriting the clip to the right, for example) by adjusting the end of the new clip to the end range marker... and also dragging back the next clip to meet it.

Sounds worse than it is! Can get in the habit and at least with that method you end up with a new clip of the exact same size as the old one, to maintain the arrangement and match the soundtrack etc, is a needless effort though. I have been spoiled using Fastcut for fun things lately! end up really missing the simple ability to just choose different clips and keep things in time. Fastcut is fast and enjoyable, but obviously far from a fully featured video editor, so will always end up back in MEP.

browj2 wrote on 9/27/2017, 12:31 AM

Hi,

I didn't try this in MEP, only VPX. Instead of exchange, use Insert as new range (shortcut 3). Set a range the length of the object to be exchanged. Set the playback marker at the beginning of the clip to be exchanged = the insert point. Preview the source clip, the one to be inserted in monitor and set the playback marker where the in point should be; ensure that there is enough material to fill the range. Press 3. The new material will be inserted to the desired length. Delete (Ctrl+Del) the clip that is not needed anymore. A bit of a roundabout way, but it works in VPX.

John CB

Eaglezone wrote on 9/29/2017, 7:29 AM

^^^

Didn't even know about pressing 3 for that shortcut, a good call! And worth a try, but unfortunately the new clip comes in longer than the desired length in MEP, not fitting the range. It works in VPX (I have an old version of that so was able to quickly test the theory) and even overwriting will work to the correct range in that too. So, I am guessing it is a feature considered tied to the 3-point editing, which (again, guessing) must be exclusive to VPX. If it's not supposed to be exclusive to VPX, then it is a bug in MEP, as the end point of range markers is always ignored regardless of import option.

browj2 wrote on 9/29/2017, 8:39 AM

@Eaglezone

You are correct. My method is the 3-point editing mode in VPX, not available in MEP. I should know, after all, I did a whole tutorial on these import commands in MEP.

I think that the only way to simulate this in MEP would be to first define the range on the timeline to get the length. Set the playback marker to the insert point. Preview the source and set a range of exactly the same length. The press on the button for overwrite or 5.

Does this help?

John CB

Eaglezone wrote on 9/29/2017, 3:09 PM

Yep! Think that is the best/quickest compromise. And can press X where there's a gap to define the range to speed up that part. Then the steps you outlined, ending by pressing 5 to import. Although... like you say, have to make sure it is EXACTLY the same length, else it will be under/over slightly, then will have to adjust it on the timeline.

Cutting a short clip from a really long video (or a series of short clips) will slow down the process quite a bit, as being exact can get intricate, but I'm not complaining too much! It is better than the totally manual approach I was often using recently. Will try to develop the habit!

But it is galling that Fastcut can calculate, like, 50 out points in seconds, yet MEP can't (or won't) calculate ONE out point. Heh. Of course I understand that Magix needs to differentiate between their separate products, but I do think it might be time to officially enable this feature in MEP. Can maybe save it for Plus/Premium, but it is intended to be snappy and straight-forward software, also the alternatives (some free) have caught up in terms of features etc.

I could maybe use my ancient VPX to build/edit an arrangement more quickly, then finish in MEP (though wouldn't have the option of going back to VPX after saving edits in MEP, not compatible. No OFX etc) Always have Fastcut available for a quick experiment, or trying to get some happy accidents etc. So, I am content with the options, just not really content commuting between 3 programs(!) A bit OTT. I still miss the 2 screens from VPX and a few other things, but I accept those losses for the price... it's fair... but fitting clips to ranges doesn't seem like a luxury now, especially not when Magix themselves offer a version of Fastcut for free.