Pan across view on back-to-back frames not working

Jason-Rogers wrote on 9/11/2019, 11:15 AM

I primarily edit my daughter's soccer games for the coaches to review with the kids. I have a static two-camera setup where one camera films the right side of the field, and the other films the left. There's about 20 degrees of overlap in the middle of the field.

I then import the two feeds into a multicam project where I cut back and forth from one side of the field to the other as the play progresses across the middle of the field. I then render this version as MPEG4

I then import the new MPEG4 file into a project where I do a lot of Pan and Zoom to follow the play around the field.

My problem is when the play goes across the middle. I need to move the frame from one side of the screen to the other on back-to-back frames keeping the current level of zoom. I do this by placing a keyframe on one frame, advance to the next frame, and drag the zoom over to the other side of the screen. However... This doesn't work if I only advance one frame. It doesn't place a new keyframe, but rather just changes the previous one. So.. my workaround has been to advance two frames, move the zoomed view, (it does create the second keyframe) then choose the new keyframe and move it back one frame. As you might imagine, when the play crosses the middle 60 to 80 times in a 70 minute match, this makes editing take a LOT longer.

Incidentally, on occasion, this DOES work where it will recognize and place the keyframe on the back-to-back frames. I don't know why, and it doesn't always do it, but it seems to be after the first 30 or so edits using the forward two, back one method.

Any suggestions? Is this a known issue?

Thanks,

Jason

Comments

browj2 wrote on 9/11/2019, 12:55 PM

My problem is when the play goes across the middle. I need to move the frame from one side of the screen to the other on back-to-back frames keeping the current level of zoom. I do this by placing a keyframe on one frame, advance to the next frame, and drag the zoom over to the other side of the screen. However... This doesn't work if I only advance one frame. It doesn't place a new keyframe, but rather just changes the previous one. So.. my workaround has been to advance two frames, move the zoomed view, (it does create the second keyframe) then choose the new keyframe and move it back one frame. As you might imagine, when the play crosses the middle 60 to 80 times in a 70 minute match, this makes editing take a LOT longer.

Hi Jason,

Please confirm the version of VPX that you are using.

I'm having trouble visualizing what you are doing with the keyframes/zooming. When the play crosses the middle, then you had a cut there to the other camera, correct?

What do you mean by drag the zoom in "I do this by placing a keyframe on one frame, advance to the next frame, and drag the zoom over to the other side of the screen?" You can't drag the zoom, only the image in the preview monitor, I think.

Can you give us a more detailed description of what you are trying to do, along with some relevant screen shots?

Are you trying to zoom in on the second part when the play crosses centre field keeping the play showing by dragging the zoomed image to the left or right depending on which way the play is going?

Did you try cutting the video object at the point where the camera changes occur and then applying the keyframes to each object?

Why don't you do this with the original timeline with all of the already cut clips? Just turn off multi-cam.

Why did you export to mp4 and not mxv, the Magix format, which would likely run much smoother? I would still stay with the original and edit there. The cuts are all there. The only reason I would export to an intermediate would be if effects got too heavy for smooth editing, for example, when using Neat Video.

John CB

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

johnebaker wrote on 9/11/2019, 1:23 PM

@Jason-Rogers

Hi

. . . . I need to move the frame from one side of the screen to the other on back-to-back frames keeping the current level of zoom. I do this by placing a keyframe on one frame, advance to the next frame, and drag the zoom over to the other side of the screen . . . .

If I interpret your methodology correctly, and what you are trying to achieve, IMHO, it would simpler to do all the editing in the first project, using cuts at appropriate points to split the video and adjust the zoom/pan and positioning of the section(s) as required.

HTH

John EB

 

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Jason-Rogers wrote on 9/11/2019, 1:50 PM

This is the version I'm using:

Here are a couple screen-grabs of what I'm doing... These are two back-to-back frames of the play going across the middle from left to right.

As you can see, I've zoomed into the relevant portion of the frame. Then when it switches cameras, I want to keep that same zoom, but need to move it to the other side of the frame to maintain the flow of the play. So I set a keyframe on the first frame, advance to the next frame, and drag the box to the other side of the screen to keep the relative same image in view.

The result looks like this:

It seems like using the cut-up version would be more work, since I'd have to re-size my zoomed-in area on each new clip. Plus, getting the exact same zoom level would be difficult each time.

I don't know why I didn't export to mxv... I honestly didn't know that was an option, or rather, that it might be more efficient to do so. I'm learning how to use this on the fly in my spare time.

Effects do get rather heavy as I'm constantly panning and re-sizing the zoom during a 70 minute soccer match to follow the action. I usually cut the source video into quarters to keep from bogging down the system.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I usually try to get these out to the coaches a couple days after the match, and since I'm doing this in my free time, I don't have a lot of time for trial and error.

Thanks,

Jason

 

 

Jason-Rogers wrote on 9/11/2019, 2:16 PM

Sorry about that... I just realized the SN was on that image. I came back and it was already removed.

johnebaker wrote on 9/11/2019, 2:33 PM

Hi

You will note I have removed the image from your post as it was showing your product serial number - @browj2 only requires the version number, the resat of the information is superfluous.

Thanks for the demo.

I assume in the example given, there is a cut where the camera switches from the left one to the right in the first (multicam) project.

IMHO it would be quicker to apply the zoom to the left camera view and then copy and pasted to the next with a few key presses - this is a technique I user regularly and is IMHO, quicker than using keyframes.

The - (minus key on top row of numeric keys) to copy the effects in the selected object, deselecting the ones you do not want to copy

Select the object(s) to have the same effect applied and press Shift and - to paste them.

HTH

John EB

Forum Moderator

 

 

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

browj2 wrote on 9/11/2019, 2:41 PM

Hi Jason,

It would actually be easier if you use the original cut version.

I don't know why you are using Camera/Zoom shot, especially over full duration when your video is not cut up. I would just use Size/Position and create keyframes where needed.

You can copy the effects from one clip to another, even selecting which effects that you want to copy to the clipboard, and then paste them onto another clip, then another, etc. Or, you can save the effects and reuse them, or a combination of both.

To get an understanding, apply Size/Position keyframe near the beginning of a short clip. Move along the timeline, same clip, zoom in and drag the image to the left or right a bit. A new keyframe will be set. Press on the - key on the numbers row of the keyboard and the Select effects window will open and you'll see the X-pos, Y-pos, Width and Height. Click on Continue. Move to a second clip of at least the same length or more, select it, Shift + -. This will paste the same effect onto the second clip. Etc.

I see that John EB beat me to it.

You can see these commands as well as the save and load commands by clicking on the down arrow at top right of the Position/Size window.

One more thing. If the second keyframe is not at the right position along the timeline for a clip, you can drag it left and right.

John CB

John C.B.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Home 1903; 16Gb RAM; i7 CPU 860@2.80Gz; ATI Radeon HD5770 w1GB; SSD 500GB, HD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB; dual monitors - 27" main, 25" secondary; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer; Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 1903

Jason-Rogers wrote on 9/11/2019, 2:59 PM

Ok.. Thanks guys.

I'm going to give these techniques a try.

RogerGunkel wrote on 9/14/2019, 5:02 AM

Hi Jason,

It seems to me that the zoom is the same in both your stills of the back to back frames, however it doesn't work well because in your left camera zoom the player in the blue top is at the right of the zoom, whereas in the right camera shot the player is at the left side of the zoom. Anyone watching the cut would expect the same player to remain in the same relative part of the screen. You need to maintain the positioning in the zoom, or cut to a wider angle of the second camera shot before cutting again to a zoom, to avoid the horrible jump between the two.

As the others have said, you would be better to zoom on the original time line to maintain quality and ease of working and you can also cut and paste the clip properties from one clip to the next, complete with the zoom information.

Roger