Picture in Picture skipping, freezing frames. RESOLVED

emmrecs wrote on 4/11/2018, 4:12 AM

Hi, welcome to the Magix forums.

I've downloaded and watched your footage and see exactly what you mean. Interestingly, I notice that the problem is worst when the main camera footage is, as it were, "more busy". I think that gives a clue as to why you are experiencing this problem.

First, MEP 2015 (which variant, by the way, Basic, Plus or Premium?) is now rather "old" and may be at least part of the cause of your problem. However, I suspect a greater "cause" is your computer, specifically the CPU. I note from the Intel pages it is now discontinued; this page shows its performance ranking in comparison with similar processors, not especially good I'm afraid.

Since you mention a Canon Pro Camera, I assume its footage is Full HD? What about that from the Dashcam? If it, too, is HD then I am not surprised that MEP is struggling to export simultaneously your footage of both cameras smoothly. Can you tell us what the free MediaInfo says about a file from each of your cameras?

Also, MEP 2015 is, I think, a 32 bit application. Which version of Windows are you running and what bit depth? The later versions of MEP, which are 64 bit only, will be able to make full use of your 16GB RAM.

One other thought: you imply that playback from within MEP is fine. Is that correct? If so, and the problem occurs only on export, could there be something hindering the writing to disc of the exported footage? Or, again a potential "bottleneck", are you using the same hard drive for Windows, your programs AND to read and write the video data? It is always best policy to have the video data, at least, being read from and written to a different drive to that containing your OS.

Hopefully, the above rather random thoughts may give you some ideas about why the problem is happening and how to avoid it. Please post back and let us know how/whether you were able to solve this.

Jeff

todd-c wrote on 4/11/2018, 5:24 AM

Thanks Jeff. Those are some great ideas to check. I'll get the answers to your questions and post back tonight after work. Though my system is older, I think the i7 should be able to handle this as I've done green screen shots without problem on my much older laptop (now dead), and those videos came out fine. I know it's a different effect, but both have two videos so this leads me to something you mention towards the end of your recommendations....I am reading/writing directly to a 5400 RPM primary C:\ drive! Not a fast drive at all, and I'm running Windows 10 Home Edition. Very drive I/O intensive. I have a 128Gig SSD I've been thinking of dropping into my box and using it for I/O intense apps like Magix. I may try that tonight after work and after posting the info you requested. I'll also post the results of using the SSD. Thanks for the suggestions and help! Looking forward to the help, getting this solved, and posting how for others that may have a similar issue.

Todd

johnebaker wrote on 4/11/2018, 6:47 AM

Hi

. . . . Movie Magix Pro 2015, Dell Optiplex 990 i7-2600s 16Gig, GeForce GTX video, plenty of hard drive space . . . . I was trying to get the picture in picture working first, then steady the video and work on other effects. . . . . I am reading/writing directly to a 5400 RPM primary C:\ drive! . . . . I have a 128Gig SSD I've been thinking of dropping into my box and using it for I/O intense apps like Magix . . . .

The spec you have given suggests this PC has had a couple of modifications during its life ie:

What is the GTX graphic card model number and has this replaced the original graphics card that came with the Dell, ie in its original spec it would have had an AMD Radeon HD 6670, 6350 or 6450 ?
Has the original hard drive been replaced - the original spec for the PC came with 7200 RPM drive(s)

There are several issues which may be combining to give the problem you are having and may give further problems as you add stabilisation and effects.

the Intel processor integrated GPU HD2000 is not capable of supporting Hardware Acceleration* (HWA)
the GTX graphics card may be capable of HWA however, depending on the model, the performance may not make a significant contribution to the speed of rendering and usability of effects.
The dashcam video may be of variable framerate which can give the problem I see in the PIP - use MediaInfo to analyse a dashcam video file and post the results from the Tree view in MediaInfo
Windows 10 is heavy on resources compared to the original version of Windows, Vista or 7, that came with the PC
the SSD drive will not improve the rendering speed - the bottleneck is elsewhere ie the processor and/or graphics card.

* Hardware Acceleration is needed for many of the effects available in MEP.

If the video is Full HD the computer is well below the minimum spec required.

@emmrecs

MEP 2015 was the first version to be 64 bit, a 32 bit version was also available.

HTH

John EB

btodd-c63 wrote on 4/11/2018, 8:34 AM

Thanks John for the help.

The spec you have given suggests this PC has had a couple of modifications during its life ie:

Yes, the PC was a refurb that I picked up about a year ago.

What is the GTX graphic card model number and has this replaced the original graphics card that came with the Dell, ie in its original spec it would have had an AMD Radeon HD 6670, 6350 or 6450 ?

I'll have to look and see exactly what the card is tonight after work. It's certainly not top of the line. I'm not a gamer but the built in graphics on this board simply sucks.

Has the original hard drive been replaced - the original spec for the PC came with 7200 RPM drive(s)

Yes you're correct. I stuff in a large 5400 RPM drive (I think - that's another one I'll have to check tonight).

There are several issues which may be combining to give the problem you are having and may give further problems as you add stabilisation and effects.

the Intel processor integrated GPU HD2000 is not capable of supporting Hardware Acceleration* (HWA)

the GTX graphics card may be capable of HWA however, depending on the model, the performance may not make a significant contribution to the speed of rendering and usability of effects.

The part that's a bit confusing to me on this is that playback in MEP is fine, but playback from the exported video isn't.

The dashcam video may be of variable framerate which can give the problem I see in the PIP - use MediaInfo to analyse a dashcam video file and post the results from the Tree view in MediaInfo
I'd have a tendency to say this is most likely the issue. Both you and Jeff have suggested the use of MediaInfo so I'll certainly get that installed and test. The reason I think this may be the issue is when I did my green screen effects I was using the same Cannon video camera for both video streams. The dash cam video really is pretty poor. I think I paid less than $75.00 for the camera. Cheap insurance and works for a dash cam for accident issues, but certainly not the quality that may be needed for MEP videos. I have a Vivitar that I've been considering setting up on the dash and using its video to see if that helps. I haven't had the time to do this yet.

Windows 10 is heavy on resources compared to the original version of Windows, Vista or 7, that came with the PC
Yep, I knew this might be part of the issue. Come to think about it, when I was running MEP on my Dell laptop (and it was a cheepy), that was running Windows 7, not 10 and it did a good job with the green screen effect.

the SSD drive will not improve the rendering speed - the bottleneck is elsewhere ie the processor and/or graphics card.

* Hardware Acceleration is needed for many of the effects available in MEP.

If the video is Full HD the computer is well below the minimum spec required.

I've reduced the video from Full HD. I need more time than quality so I lowered it, but I don't recall what I set it to. I'll check on that too.

@emmrecs

MEP 2015 was the first version to be 64 bit, a 32 bit version was also available.

I believe I have the 64 bit version, but that's another that I just don't remember but will check on.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll get more information posted tonight and testing done.

Todd

browj2 wrote on 4/11/2018, 8:58 AM

Hi Todd,

Try exporting the dash cam video to Magix format mxv and using that instead of the original.

John CB

btodd-c63 wrote on 4/11/2018, 6:53 PM

Here's what's been asked for along with other info and comments.

MEP 2015 Deluxe Version 14.0.0.160 (UDPP3) 64bit
Updated to Version 14.0.0.187.

The computer was designed for business so I’m not surprised at the medium range CPU that’s in it.

MediaInfo on the two files.

This is from the dash cam. The audio is deleted when brought in to MEP.
General
Complete name: 08300026_63EAB94B.AVI
Format: AVI
Format/Info: Audio Video Interleave
File size: 124 MiB
Duration: 48 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate: 21.6 Mb/s

Video
ID: 0
Format: JPEG
Codec ID: MJPG
Duration: 48 s 0 ms
Bit rate: 20.1 Mb/s
Width: 1920 pixels
Height: 1080 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 16:9
Frame rate: 24.000 FPS
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0
Bit depth: 8 bits
Compression mode: Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 0.404
Stream size: 115 MiB (93%)

Audio
ID: 1
Format: PCM
Format settings: Little / Signed
Codec ID: 1
Duration: 48 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode: Constant
Bit rate: 512 kb/s
Channel(s): 1 channel
Sampling rate: 32.0 kHz
Bit depth: 16 bits
Stream size: 2.93 MiB (2%)
Alignment: Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration: 1000 ms (24.00 video frames)

This is from my Canon which is the main video. I’ve also shut down the bitrate to the lowest in the camera to get the most out of the 32gig card.

General
Complete name: CANON\MVI_0024_65F676D3.MP4
Format: MPEG-4
Format profile: Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID: mp42 (mp42/avc1/CAEP)
File size: 871 MiB
Duration: 30 min 17 s
Overall bit rate: 4022 kb/s
Encoded date: UTC 2018-04-08 13:56:54
Tagged date: UTC 2018-04-08 13:56:54

Video
ID: 1
Format: AVC
Format/Info: Advanced Video Codec
Format profile: Main@L3.1
Format settings: CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC: Yes
Format settings, RefFrames: 2 frames
Format settings, GOP: M=3, N=15
Codec ID: avc1
Codec ID/Info: Advanced Video Coding
Duration: 30 min 17 s
Source duration: 30 min 17 s
Bit rate: 3 887 kb/s
Width: 1280 pixels
Height: 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 16:9
Frame rate mode: Constant
Frame rate: 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0
Bit depth: 8 bits
Scan type: Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 0.141
Stream size: 842 MiB (97%)
Source stream size: 842 MiB (97%)
Language: English
Encoded date: UTC 2018-04-08 13:56:54
Tagged date: UTC 2018-04-08 13:56:54
Color range: Limited
Color primaries: BT.709
Transfer characteristics: BT.709
Matrix coefficients: BT.709

Audio
ID: 2
Format: AAC
Format/Info: Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile: LC
Codec ID: mp4a-40-2
Duration: 30 min 17 s
Bit rate mode: Constant
Bit rate: 128 kb/s
Channel(s): 2 channels
Channel positions: Front: L R
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate: 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode: Lossy
Stream size: 27.6 MiB (3%)
Language: English
Encoded date: UTC 2018-04-08 13:56:54
Tagged date: UTC 2018-04-08 13:56:54

Playback in MEP is fine. There’s some frame issues but just a few times during playback. Nothing as bad as what’s in the final export.

I will switch saving to another drive as currently it is saving on the C: drive.

My thinking is that there are multiple things I can do to get this to work, and one right off the bat is that the dash cam is in .avi format. I know just from experience playing .avi files that they are really CPU intense.

The GeForce GTX graphics card is A 760. I’m running dual monitors (DVI) off of it.
I ran PassMark on my system which gave an overall 55th percentile rating at 2343.2.

Breakdown is:
CPU: 6528.4 56th Percentile
2D Graphics Mark: 590.4 56th Percentile
3D Graphics Mark: 4820.5 76th Percentile
Memory Mark: 1670.7 52nd Percentile
Disk Mark: 757.0 36th Percentile

This is based on other user’s ratings so I know it's not a lot of help, but it's not bottom of the basement either.

The HD has been replaced. My system has a Hitatchi 2TB drive with 3Gb sata transfer rate but I was wrong on the RPM. It is a 7200RPM drive.

I’m not using the onboard video and it is disabled in the BIOS.

Frame rate of the dash cam video seems to be fixed at 24 FPS.

My old laptop was running Windows 7, so this may be part of the issue with the desktop running 10.

I think I’m going to give John CB’s idea a try and get the dash cam video out of .avi format as well as add in the SSD drive. I know John EB said that shouldn’t be an issue but it’ll eliminate one possibility of the O/S fighting the drive for I/O time, plus it’s just easier to find the videos on a non-cluttered drive.

I’ll post what happens with what I’ve got, but still very open to suggestions.

btodd-c63 wrote on 4/11/2018, 9:57 PM

Well I think I know what's going on. Today I converted the .avi's over to MEP format - re-exported the video - no joy. Then I converted the .avi's into much smaller .wmv and .mpg4 files at 740x480. Re-exported the video - same exact issue. So when you've made modifications to the export, there should be some change, unless the problem is with the initial video in the first place! Take a look at one of the .avi's here and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbwyf1xno5tagcn/08320028_6458FCA5.AVI?dl=0

You actually have to download the video. Playback in a browser shows only a little of the problem, but playing it in Windows Media Player shows much more of the issue.

It's the old saying, garbage in, garbage out. The .avi's (not all, but most) have issues. The dash cam I have pointing out the front of the car really must suck. The other reason I've come to this preliminary conclusion is because during the exports I had task manager running. In Windows 10 it gives a heck of a lot more information than in 7 and prior and what it showed me is the CPU and GPU never exceeded 30% utilization. I'm fairly sure the computer has more than enough power to process these videos together, however fixing bad video isn't one of the features it can do. I still have to verify this, but I'm fairly confident if I set up my Vivitar up on the dash and have it video out the front, the results will be very different.

I'll post when I do that and hopefully that's really what the issue is.

Thanks,

Todd

PS> I do have some skills with MEP and have been using it for several years.

This is the first time other than doing green screen work that I've gone into the special effects, so I appreciate the help.

btodd-c63 wrote on 4/12/2018, 5:13 PM

Well the issue certainly was the garbage video out of the dash cam. I'm most likely pushing the dash cams past their max on quality. I'll have to try and drop the resolution and frame to see if they'll do any better. I did a work from home day so didn't get any driving video, so instead I used an old clip along with adding in picture in picture of the Cannon video x6 for a total of 7 video streams. The old video clip is not high res, but the 6 Cannon video streams are. The GPU never went past 30% and CPU was only slightly higher. There's no video jumping/stalling/frame skipping. The only shaking is from the camera itself while videoing. Here's the link to show the above mentioned test.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k59drfks2zfr7dt/2018-04-12.mp4?dl=0

Thanks for the help and as it appears, the video quality just stinks from the dash cam.

Todd