Selling music created in Music Maker, using my own loops.

mariaretz wrote on 7/14/2013, 1:43 PM

I have been reading all posts I could find about copyright and selling music created in Magix Music Maker, to avoid having to post this question (as I know copyright/selling questions are posted pretty often), but I am still confused.

What I understood from what I read is that you can sell the music you create in Magix Music Maker if you have created the loops youself, but if you use any of the loops that came along with the product, then you can’t sell it (without buying the license for it).
So I could create something like the person in this video below does and then sell it

But then I found this:
https://support2.magix.com/customer/en/node/204252

And as far as I understood, then I can only sell it if I record through live recording (using a physical instrument and my own voice) – so I can’t use any of the sounds/instruments in Magix (like the person does in the YouTube video above) and then sell the music?
How about all the effects then? If I record singing and use the effects.

I am confused. I am afraid to do something wrong, as I am a complete newbie when it comes to creating music like this.

I read somewhere that you can do the same thing in Pro Tools, creating music via the computer instead of connecting physical instruments to the computer/Pro Tools, without having to worry about copyright etc.
Is that true?

I really want to create my own music, but am afraid to do something wrong.

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 7/14/2013, 3:37 PM

Hi

The article you have referenced has added confusion to this issue of licencing and copyright.

I have emailed Magix for clarification on what constitutes 'live recording' with respect to the use of the Synthesizers.

John

Forum Moderator

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/14/2013, 3:37 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

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mariaretz wrote on 7/15/2013, 2:57 AM

Hi John,

Thank you very much for your reply.
Will you create a new post with the reply you get from them? I just want to know where I can look, to be sure to read the info once you receive a reply from them.

I have some other questions regarding my first question.

1)
About buying the license(s)

In the article it says:
If you use the Soundpools or Synthesizers that come with MAGIX music products, then you will need to purchase the Pro licence from our Catooh website.

Does that mean that I can buy a one time license to use the syntheseizers (but still not the completed loops), so I then can create my own loops with the syntheseizers and sell my music?
Or do I have to buy a license for each syntheseizers?
And what license then belongs to Music Maker 2013 Premium and where can I buy it (or do I need the pro version of Music Maker to buy the pro license? - the pro version can't be bought through the Danish Magix page though, which is why I chose Premium).

2)
What exactly are the syntheseizers? Does that involve all of the instruments, or only the keyboard/syntheseizer sounds?
Can I create my own loops using the drums and bass etc. and sell it, or is that a part of the syntheseizers too?

3)
Is it only if I sell the music that I need to buy a license?
Can I share the music I create, also with the completed loops, on YouTube etc. if I don't earn any money on it? And can I use it in videos I make, where I don't earn money on the video either?

4)
How about the syntheseizers and instruments etc. in Music Studio, do I need to buy a license for that too? Or can I use everything in Music Studio and sell it?

Thank you for your time, I know you must spend a lot of time reading and replying to questions like this one, so I appreciate it very much.

johnebaker wrote on 7/15/2013, 4:24 PM

Hi

. . . . do I have to buy a license for each synthesizers . . .

I have asked a similar question - I cannot find any licences for the synthesizers in the page referenced by the article - I can only find Soundpool licences - more details are at www.catooh.com.

. . . . what license then belongs to Music Maker 2013 Premium . . . 

The standard licence is this  http://www.magix.com/gb/eula/consumer/

Any professional licence soundpool you purchase is covered by  http://www.magix.com/gb/eula/professional/

. . . . What exactly are the syntheseizers . . .

The synthesizers are programmable sound generators, drum machines and beat generators - such as Revolta, Beat box etc found under the Synthesisers option at the bottom of the MMM window which you can play using the keyboard, external midi keyboard or write notes with the Midi Editor

. . . . Can I create my own loops using the drums and bass etc. and sell it, or is that a part of the syntheseizers too? . . .

That is one of the questions I have asked Magix.

. . . . Is it only if I sell the music that I need to buy a license?
Can I share the music I create, also with the completed loops, on YouTube etc. . . .

No - selling comes under commercial gain - requires a professional licence.  Sharing, eg on Youtube etc, comes under Public performances - which is covered by copyright hence not allowed without the copyright owners permission therefore by inference you need a professional licence.

. . . How about the syntheseizers and instruments etc. in Music Studio . . .

The same rules apply as for Music Maker.

HTH

John

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/15/2013, 4:25 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

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Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

mariaretz wrote on 7/16/2013, 2:43 AM

Hi John,

Thank you so much for your help, it really means a lot, as I am afraid to do something wrong due to ignorance.

What if I connect my digital keyboard, Yamaha PSR-E423, and use the sounds in the keyboard, but use the midi function in Magix Music Maker to create melodies with the sound in my keyboard + use the Magix Music Maker effects (echo, mastering, auto tune etc. ) – have I understood it right that I then own everything and can share and sell it as I like? Do any of the effects belong to the synthesizers?
Is it even possible to use the midi function, like the person does in the video I shared in the actual post, with my own keyboard? And do I need any other software to make my keyboard work with Magix? (there was supposed to be a CD-ROM with the keyboard, but I don’t have it and don’t think I ever received it in the package, but do I need it when I use Magix?)

I hope you understand what I mean, my English is not perfect :)

Thank you again for your help.

 

Former users wrote on 7/16/2013, 6:49 AM

not to put a spanner in the works (so to speak).

i have read countless rules and regulations in my time (thats my job).

but magix have got to be some of the worse licenses rules ive ever read.

they say you can sell your own stuff then "counter "saying you need a certain licence,(depended) on product//year/where your selling and who to..

then they say you cant because you need the rights to it.

then AND if only you try and find the rights to your own meterial then then contradict themselfs again.

statement from magix. (source withheld for legal reasons) ...MAGIX offer great deals to sell your own music and video products at the mere price of professional software.

then they state this. (several paragraphs later) again withheld for legal reason.

please contact us for support on licence agreements and rules.

they also say you CAN NOT sell any product without licence.

i have spoke to several staff at work via the fone and this is what happend,(short version).

after 26 mins wating for a member of staff i was told i need to talk to someone in the right office.

so after another 3 mins i was told (after i got threw) to speak to another office.

several calls later and nearly 3 hours past they still did not answer my questions.

or to put it another way. THEY AINT GOT A CLUE WHAT YOU CAN OR WHAT YOU CANT SELL!

(my advice is dont sell anything using magix meterial)

assuming anyone reads this.

maureen/macca.xx

 

 

mariaretz wrote on 7/16/2013, 7:27 AM

Hi Maureen,

Thank you for your reply.

They say, on the page I linked to, that you can sell the music if it is your own sounds and instruments - which make me think that I then can add my keyboard and use the midi programme to create my own music with the sounds on my keyboard (like the person does in the video I shared) and then sell it legally.
However, since there is so much confusion, then I am afraid to do that, until I am absolutely sure.
 
Do you know of any other programme, where you can create your own music via midi, like you can in Magix (but not with the created loops, I would not use those anyway) and then legally sell the music you have created. So a programme where you can do what the person does in the video and then after you have created your own music with your own sounds (unless you are allowed to use and sell it with their sounds, not loops).

Basically, I just want to create digital music, using my keyboard and midi (where I can use my mouse to colour the areas, or play on the actualy keyboard - whichever I prefer) and then sell it legally.

mariaretz wrote on 7/19/2013, 2:38 AM

Apparently they don't get back to you if you write to their support.
I have written two messages, the first asking if I can use the music I create without using the loops (now I know I can't use the synthesizers either) and the other was that I want to cancel my order.
However, no reply to any of the messages and I have received a note from the post that I can get my package today, so now I'm just gonna keep it.
Well, but apparently I can't use their product to sell my music, so it will be of absolutely no use for me, other than practise before being able to buy Pro Tools or another similar product (and I'm not even sure my PC can run such a product)

I don't get it, they write (on the page I linked to) that if I use my own sounds through live recording, then I can do what I want with my music (share and sell it) - but I still don't know if I can use their effects (auto tune, echo, mastering etc.) or if that is also copyrighted?

Until I find a product I can use where there is no confusion about that I own the music I create, so I can share and sell it as I please, then I will stick to GarageBand.
 

Former users wrote on 7/19/2013, 4:32 AM

i read you latest post.

i wouldnt risk selling anything made with magix products.

you know yourself its not worth the hassle and the messing about trying to find out what you can or can not do.

when you find a good 100 percent free programme then i hope you sell a millions copys.

macca.xx

 

johnebaker wrote on 7/21/2013, 5:58 AM

Hi

I have had a reply from Magix re copyright and licensing for the questions I asked as follows:

 1.   If a built in synthesizer is used with the music or beat patterns that are built into them then I would expect copyright/licence to be applicable is this correct?

. . . This assumption makes sense, but this looks like a bit of a grey area at the moment . . .  refrain from using the sample melodies for the melodic software synths,  but the sample/preset drum patterns for the software drum computers are too generic to even protect them. . .

2.   If a synthesizer is  controlled/played from a midi keyboard or entered using the Midi Editor, using own composition with the built in instrument sounds eg Space Pad, Church Organ etc, is this copyrighted and a professional license needed?

. . . . Using the instrument/preset sounds from the software instruments with your own compositions (for commercial purposes) is definitely not a problem. . . . . The individual instrument sounds (sample-based or synthesis-based) are not protected this way. No special license needed (or available).

3.   As for 2 except the synthesizers parameters or beat patterns are set by the user.

 . . . If everything is fully customised, you also don't need any special license . . . 

In a nutshell the rules are:

a.   Soundpools and collections - these are copyrighted and require the commercial licence for use

b.   You should refrain from using the built in synthesizer melodies eg double click Revolta for example will put a melody on the timeline. 

c.   Drum synthesizers are the exception to copyright / licencing - they are too generic.

d.   Playing the synthesizers (by external MIDI keyboard or using the Midi editor) with your own compositions and settings does not require a commercial licence.

John

 

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/21/2013, 5:59 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015.

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Former users wrote on 7/21/2013, 2:28 PM

like john i to recieved mail after weeks of wating.

Basically i got the same message as john but more explaination.

but it all boils down the same.

DONT BOTHER its really not worth the hassle and paper work.

im a work so i cant go into details here.lol

im just taking 15 mins out for a cig break.

maureen./macca.xx

 

Former users wrote on 7/21/2013, 2:30 PM

i will private message you full details as soon as i get home.

@mariaretz.

macca.xx

 

Procyon wrote on 9/13/2013, 9:25 PM

Thank you John for your efforts.  At least you, a moderator, can get some results when the vast majority of us cannot.

Their (MAGIX) responses confirm everything I've been saying all along.  Macca is also correct that whoever is writing the EULA's and licensing agreements does not have sufficient knowledge of copyright law.  Some of it is just ridiculous and unenforcable, which adds greatly to everyone's confusion.  It is compounded by their policy of changing EULA's and licensing agreements (often yearly) at will and make them retroactive, thus negating the original agreement you agreed to when you initially purchased and used the software and soundpools (such as prior to MMM-17).

MAGIX retains all rights to the software (creative and intellectual property), meaning the programming, graphics, synths, etc that the software consists of.  That means you cannot legally sell or alter the software in part or in whole.  This is covered by the EULA (end-user license agreement). Purchase of the software does give you the license to use it.

The media (creative property), meaning the soundpools, pre-programmed rhythms and melodies, are the property of MAGIX and/or their creator and/or copyright holder of the media.  Thus, you cannot use the media, publically or commercially, without the appropriate license and only within the limits of that license.  Purchasing the software gives the license for private use only. Public or commercial use requires the purchase of an additional license.

The synths, drum machines, effects, etc.are tools you purchased the rights to use when you purchased the software.  As such, YOU retain any and all rights to any original creative property YOU create using those tools. No company can claim rights to the work or creative property made using the tools that they sell, be it a mechanics wrench, a synthesizer, or any instrument in an orchestra. (At least, not yet.)

mariaretz wrote on 9/15/2013, 1:32 AM

Thank you for all your replies.

Thank you, John, for your help.

I will not sell anything made with Music Maker, I will use it as a praticing tool until I can afford to buy a product where you are allowed to sell what you create - but of course these products are rather expensive.

genelythgow wrote on 10/27/2013, 11:54 PM

I don't see why there was so much confusion here: John answered the question clearly and all electronic software is the same on this issue: you can use any synthesizer in the program as long as you don't use the pre-sets (i.e.: make it your own; if you can't do that, you can't sell it): then, you can sell the daylights out of your composition.  What would the music maker software be for if professionals couldn't use it as well?  Just to goof around?  Tweaking the knobs (i.e.: reverb, delay, noise, transpose, step sequencer, LFO, etc) takes two seconds and you can alter the sound enough that it is not a pre-set: then its your's if you use it in a song, sound effect, as a low pulse (as in drone music) or any compilation or even single note.  Its like selling oil paint in tubes for artists and telling them they can use it for paintings to put on their refrigerator, but not sell it. lol.  Or the same for a paint brush, or pen, or canvas, or camera.  Its a source for creating art, whether you sell it or not is up to you; just DON'T USE PRE-SETS OR LOOPS, PERIOD. 

USE THE MIDI EDITOR for your compositions, add some compression, a fleck of reverb, delay, noise, etc and make your creation come to life; just write in your own notes (I mean, drawing blue boxes on note lines is NOT difficult) and in your own sequence and its alllllll yours!  ANYONE WHO USES MUSIC SOFTWARE TO CREATE MUSIC TO SELL AVOIDS USING LOOPS AND PRE-SETS LIKE THE PLAGUE.  THATS THE RULE OF THUMB.  Peace.

Souderrick wrote on 11/6/2018, 9:01 AM

So I buy the software (Magix music maker) , I buy soundpool packs etc , I use parts of the loops to create my own song that sounds nothing like anything in the sounpools , but still cannot copyright it or sell it ? So why am I investing in this then?