Unclear on 29.97 and 30 Frames Per Second

CLINT-DANBURY wrote on 9/20/2021, 6:11 PM

What do I need to know about ?...

  • 29.97 Frames per second
  • (And)
  • 30 Frames per second


I searched this forum for info on those two numbers and found a bunch of posts about Apple iPhones.

Duh

I hope I'm not junking up the forums with clueless newbee ignorance; it's just that you guys actually help the brain cells work.

My questions on this are all about screen capture and importing.

To the clueless newbee (i.e., me) these two options look like a ridiculous set of choices.

(e.g., Why not also have a choice for 14.985 Frames per second ?)

Can somebody tell me what gives with these two just barely different speeds ?

More to the point, which one do I choose under what circumstances ?

 

 

===================

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Comments

ericlnz wrote on 9/20/2021, 6:41 PM

The answer is basically historical. 29.97 is the NTSC TV system framerate for the USA and countries that use NTSC. The UK and many other countries use the PAL system which is 25 fps.

Then along came digital and phones that take video. The phone manufacturers aren't involved with TV production so use a sensible framerate, usually 30.

Often 29.97 is referred to as 30 and most of the time when editing the numbers are interchangeable. As to which to use it depends on your final output. If you are burning a DVD or Blu-ray usually 29.97 as this framerate fits the relevant disc specifications. But if it's just a file to play on your PC, or TV from a usb drive use 30.

As to why no 14.985? It's because such a framerate has never been a standard for anything.

CubeAce wrote on 9/20/2021, 7:05 PM

@CLINT-DANBURY

Hi Clint.

In the early days of analog TV it was easiest to sync frame rate to the mains frequency, so in a few countries that was 60fps and the rest of the world it was 50fps. Film through projectors at the cinema has always remained 24 fps.

When Colour was first introduced, few people had colour sets and were still viewing on black and white receivers.

Saturated colour on a black and white set made for crawling dots of pure white on such sets and it was found that if the recording was made at 0.1% slower than the broadcast frame rate that the unwanted effect on the B&W TVs was reduced even though the frames were still broadcast at the full frame rate. the lower 29.97 frame rate was put on video tape cameras for interlacing of the 59.49 frame rate which was basically a mistake as the interlacing depended on having 60 frames per second.

Either way the broadcasts were always at the full frame rate of the local mains frequency and a 59.49 frame rate video will (or should) be played back at 60fps. Higher frame rates are meant for smoother playback of slow motion sequences.

People who game play like to record at the frame rate they see their game played at, so such screen recorders vary their frame rate, sometimes many times higher than intended for broadcast or normal internet playback via a web hosting platform, but such 'recordings' are not normally suitable for video editing production.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 9/20/2021, 7:08 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

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CLINT-DANBURY wrote on 9/21/2021, 2:43 AM

@ericlnz, @CubeAce,

------------------------------

 

Thanks, both of you; once again, useful info for the brain.

This has been quite a lesson in scientific history; Wow; you'd think they were trying to create obfuscation on purpose.

Anyway, as to what yall mentioned, these "movies" will be clips of three to five minutes, and maybe a few ten minute clips.

They are going to be mostly - if - not - totally screen caps of software and how to use it, and will be distributed (hopefully totally) via the internet.

I guess I'll ask the intermediary kids what frame rate to use.

Thanks a ton.

 

CubeAce wrote on 9/21/2021, 4:38 AM

@CLINT-DANBURY

Hi Clint.

For that I would personally stick to average the screen refresh rate of 60fps. That should satisfy the majority as if you are capturing screen usage, there is no 'exposure time' as such for each frame, so in theory should provide smoother graphics for movement of the mouse etc. Going above that is not really an option for video editing even is some capture software can do more frames per second to keep up with higher refresh rate monitors.

Ray.

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 21H2 OS build 19044.2075. Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives. Page file space 4.75GB.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version 31.0.101.2111 with 32GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB SSD D: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 250GB SamSung Evo 970 drive for Operating System. + x2 WD BLACK 2TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.I for internal projects 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x WD RED 2TB drive. Total 12TB of four external WD drives for backup.

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browj2 wrote on 9/21/2021, 7:34 AM

@CLINT-DANBURY

Hi Clint,

I use the easy method. In NTSC land, my project settings and export settings are the same - 29.97 fps. I know that the export will work everywhere.

In my tutorials, I use the same settings, but the screen captures are all at 30 fps. I use a separate screen capture program with 3 settings - 15, 25 and 30 fps. The clips get adjusted automatically by the program.

John CB

John C.B.

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CLINT-DANBURY wrote on 9/22/2021, 12:14 AM

Hi guys, mucho thanks for the help. I just traded a "chat" session with the powers that be. They tell me...

  • Acceptable: 25 to 60 FPS
  • Then on their side, all outputs are resampled to 30 FPS
  • So, my best guess: Use 30

 

browj2 wrote on 9/22/2021, 9:02 AM

@CLINT-DANBURY

Hi Clint,

That removes any question. Always try to use the same project settings as the required output, so use 30.

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(14); Movie Studio 2023 Platinum; MM2023 with MM2022 Premium Edition; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 21H1; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.