@browj2, That's a very helpful answer. Thanks.

I have some comments and questions:

1. Selectable tracks seem a useful improvement.

2. I'm glad to hear the Undo function works reliably for you, but it does not work consistently for me in version 16. Anyway, thanks for the undo history tip.

3. In the time stretch window, Shift-drag slows down the knob rotation, which really helps. Thanks for the suggestion. Fyi, holding the Ctrl key makes no difference in my version.

4: Thanks for explaining how to enter a numeric value for the volume of an object. But the method you described is not very efficient. For example, assume the user is currently editing text. To change the volume of an audio object, the user has to:

• Select the audio object
• Click to expand Effects / Audio Effects.
• Click on General
• Double click in the volume field.
• Enter the desired value
• Press enter

It would be more efficient if the user could

• Double click the volume handle on the object
• Enter the desired volume.
• Press enter.

This kind of efficiency really matters for anyone -- professional or not -- who values their time and wants to make videos quickly. Magix developers should do more to help users save time with basic functions like this.

6: Changing the color of an object that is not already selected requires 6 clicks. That's not efficient. There should be a color palette always visible, so you could click the object, and then click the palette. Two clicks, done. That's how it's done in Cubase, and it's very efficient. Magix software developers should count the number of clicks and keyboard strokes needed to execute each operation, and minimize them.

7. I see your point: Edit the text in the preview window. But then what is the purpose of the text box in the Effects menu / Title Editing? If it has a purpose, then it should be resizable. That would be more convenient than having to drag a scroll bar. Do you know what purpose the Title Editing text box serves?

8. My point #8 was copied in haste from notes I wrote about another program. Sorry for the confusion.

The VPX functionality I was actually looking for is available with Shift-resize. I stumbled on it just now. In Title Editing, Shift-resize enlarges the text box in the preview monitor and simultaneously increases the font size.

9. Thanks for pointing out the snap markers. They're a useful feature, but they would be more useful if they could be labelled, right? The lack of labels is additional evidence that improving basic functionality is not a high priority for Magix.

10. Regarding time-stretching of multiple objects: It should be feasible to implement. The developers just need to make the software detect any overlaps during the stretch operation, and then constrain the stretch at that point.

I admit, my knowledge of VPX is not deep, mainly because I avoid using it. That's because I find the basic functionality inefficient, and the developers seem more focused on flashy new features. I'm not a pro myself, but I do value my time, and I prefer efficient, reliable software.

Magix uses the word "Pro" in the name of this software, so the onus is on them to meet that standard.

That said, I do appreciate your helpful suggestions.

I suppose the selectable tracks might be worth the price of an upgrade, but I've read that the current version of VPX is still quite buggy. What's your opinion?

@Galaxy

Hi

To add to @browj2 comments and referring to the item numbers in your last post:

4. . . . . For example, assume the user is currently editing text. To change the volume of an audio object . . . .

With all the video editors I have used you have to complete or abandon the current task, such as adding a title, before switching to another.

6. . . . . Changing the color of an object that is not already selected requires 6 clicks . . . .

In VPX 13 preset colours are already assigned to object types, changing them is 2 clicks for a default colour - right click on the object, hover over Object colour, left click colour from second pop-up see image below.

I cannot remember if VPX 10 has the same method.

7. . . . . what purpose the Title Editing text box serves? . . . . .

IMO it is a secondary display.

10 . . . . . Regarding time-stretching of multiple objects: It should be feasible to implement. The developers just need to make the software detect any overlaps during the stretch operation, and then constrain the stretch at that point. . . . .

It is not a simple as that, with a single track project that may be feasible, however for multi track and more complex projects, see example below, the decision on what moves or not is complicated by items such as collages, Picture in Picture effects, audio tracks etc.

. . . . . Magix uses the word "Pro" in the name of this software, so the onus is on them to meet that standard. . . . .

Who is defining 'that standard' ?

John EB
Forum Moderator

@Galaxy

Hi,

Out of curiosity, do you use the Project Temp Folder in VPX? If so, how?

I use it most of the time.

John CB

With all the video editors I have used you have to complete or abandon the current task, such as adding a title, before switching to another.

Yes, in both scenarios I described, the current task must be completed first. Still, the second method would require fewer clicks:

• Double click the volume handle on the object
• Enter the desired volume.
• Press enter.

Done. It should be that simple.

6. . . . . Changing the color of an object that is not already selected requires 6 clicks . . . .

In VPX 13 preset colours are already assigned to object types, changing them is 2 clicks for a default colour - right click on the object, hover over Object colour, left click colour from second pop-up see image below.

I cannot remember if VPX 10 has the same method.

That's an improvement over VPX 10. However, secondary pop-up menus inevitably require careful mouse movement, which takes time. Consider this: If you perform that color-change task 100 times in VPX, and time yourself, and then do the same color-change task in Cubase 100 times, you will find the Cubase color palette much faster, and it requires less effort. It's simply easier and faster to click on a button than to call up a secondary menu.

As an experiment, I performed a simple task in VPX: I clicked on an audio object and then clicked the Play button. I did that ten times, and timed myself. It took 25 seconds.

Then I did another task 10 times: I right-clicked on an audio object and selected an item in a secondary menu. That took 55 seconds. That's twice as long. So even the improved color-change method is less efficient than it should be, because it involves using a secondary menu.

Try the above experiment and see for yourself.

Magix needs to pay more attention to inefficiencies like these, and eliminate them. Nobody likes to waste their time. I for one would use VPX more often if it were more efficient.

But yes, the method you described is an improvement over VPX 10. Thanks for the tip.

It is not a simple as that, with a single track project that may be feasible, however for multi track and more complex projects, see example below, the decision on what moves or not is complicated by items such as collages, Picture in Picture effects, audio tracks etc.

Granted, in some situations, the challenges might be insurmountable. You've mentioned collages, picture-in-picture etc. But the software could detect when those elements are present, and when they are present, simply disable multi-track stretching.

Who is defining 'that standard' ?

The competition.

Out of curiosity, do you use the Project Temp Folder in VPX? If so, how?

I use it most of the time.

John CB

@browj2 Yes I use that, but only as needed. Is there some special use you had in mind?

@Galaxy

Hi,

Yes, in both scenarios I described, the current task must be completed first. Still, the second method would require fewer clicks:

• Double click the volume handle on the object
• Enter the desired volume.
• Press enter.

Done. It should be that simple.

You have put this with what John EB said about "complete or abandon the current task, such as adding a title, before switching to another" which is not the same thing as adjusting the volume curve. Thus, the context is lost.

4. Object Volume Adjustment

• Double click the volume handle on the object
• Enter the desired volume.
• Press enter.

I thought that you wanted efficiency. Just click on the volume handle and slide volume up or down as I mentioned. It is buttery smooth and in 0.1dB increments. No need to type or press Enter.

I also gave you an alternative method using the Audio Effects volume slider and box. When you are doing audio you should be on that effect anyways. Just type a value in the box, enter.

However, changing the volume cannot be a copied effect. Hmm. Something for the wish list?

6. Colouring objects - why not just select a bunch, right-click, select a colour from the pop-down. Done.

I think that what you are looking for is another button on the menu for object colour. Won't happen. It's not something done often enough or by enough users, and would add another button to the toolbar. Where would this stop? Someone else would want another button, someone else another button, etc. thus cluttering up the toolbar with seldom used buttons. Then the complaints would come in about a cluttered toolbar.

On the other hand, it would be a good idea to be able to add buttons to the toolbar. Something for the wish list.

Do you also use Track Colours?

Project Temp Folder

Yes I use that, but only as needed. Is there some special use you had in mind?

Just asking. But, what do you mean "only as needed?" What do you need if for and when?

I put in things like pointers already sized and appropriately named. When I need to add another one, It's easy to get it from the PTF. The same for other things, like music. Things that I use often can be in a PTF, saved and imported into other projects and imported onto the timeline, if needed.

I sometimes build up a project by importing photos and videos from many different locations into various folders in the PTF and then inserting them onto the timeline from there.

Using the PTF replaces creating takes. Just add the object to the PTF in the root or another folder and it's there - doesn't need to be on the timeline.

Sometimes, I rename the files in the PTF for use and reuse. Filenames like "20111231170522.mts" are not really user-friendly. And/or I add descriptions. Of course, this depends on what I am doing.

There is more, but this gives you some ideas since you are looking for efficiency and there is a tool to help.

PRO Software

VPX has multiple timelines. You can import another project into the current project. You can do nesting - using a second movie as an object in another movie. Need to change it? Just switch to the other movie, make the change and the object in the main movie is updated. Vegas, the "pro" software, can only nest an external project into the current one and they are proud of this capability. No multiple timelines/movies.

Do you use multiple movies, import another project or movie into the current one to get access to its resources, use nesting?

I think that we have demonstrated that almost everything that you have mentioned has either been improved or can be done more efficiently differently. There are other new tools that we have not discussed, like "Split and Trim."

There is always room for improvement. If there wasn't, Magix would go out of business once everyone who wanted it had bought the software.

John CB

@Galaxy

Hi,

Yes, in both scenarios I described, the current task must be completed first. Still, the second method would require fewer clicks:

• Double click the volume handle on the object
• Enter the desired volume.
• Press enter.

Done. It should be that simple.

You have put this with what John EB said about "complete or abandon the current task, such as adding a title, before switching to another" which is not the same thing as adjusting the volume curve. Thus, the context is lost.

I'm just looking for efficient ways to work. I've offered a suggestion, but there seems to be some resistance to my idea. Do you actually understand my suggestion? Have you actually counted the clicks and keyboard strokes to see which approach is more efficient? Of course, implementing my suggestion would not require removing the current functionality. This is not a "zero sum game". ;-)

4. Object Volume Adjustment

• Double click the volume handle on the object
• Enter the desired volume.
• Press enter.

I thought that you wanted efficiency. Just click on the volume handle and slide volume up or down as I mentioned. It is buttery smooth and in 0.1dB increments. No need to type or press Enter.

Generally, I'm comfortable using a mouse or a keyboard, but of the two, I typically prefer my keyboard. This is especially true with respect to the volume slider, which I find particularly awkward. In contrast, you prefer using your mouse. So it seems a matter of personal preference. I think Magix should accommodate both preferences.

I also gave you an alternative method using the Audio Effects volume slider and box. When you are doing audio you should be on that effect anyways. Just type a value in the box, enter.

Again, have you counted the clicks and key strokes? Start from the same baseline and count them, and you'll see that my suggestion is very efficient.

However, changing the volume cannot be a copied effect. Hmm. Something for the wish list?

6. Colouring objects - why not just select a bunch, right-click, select a colour from the pop-down. Done.

I think that what you are looking for is another button on the menu for object colour. Won't happen. It's not something done often enough or by enough users, and would add another button to the toolbar. Where would this stop? Someone else would want another button, someone else another button, etc. thus cluttering up the toolbar with seldom used buttons. Then the complaints would come in about a cluttered toolbar.

Cubase Pro 11 solves the clutter problem by allowing users to select which buttons and toolbars to display. Magix should do likewise.

Alternatively, CorelDraw X5 automatically displays only the toolbars needed at any given time. That approach could work well for VPX too.

On the other hand, it would be a good idea to be able to add buttons to the toolbar. Something for the wish list.

Do you also use Track Colours?

Project Temp Folder

Yes I use that, but only as needed. Is there some special use you had in mind?

Just asking. But, what do you mean "only as needed?" What do you need if for and when?

I put in things like pointers already sized and appropriately named. When I need to add another one, It's easy to get it from the PTF. The same for other things, like music. Things that I use often can be in a PTF, saved and imported into other projects and imported onto the timeline, if needed.

I sometimes build up a project by importing photos and videos from many different locations into various folders in the PTF and then inserting them onto the timeline from there.

Using the PTF replaces creating takes. Just add the object to the PTF in the root or another folder and it's there - doesn't need to be on the timeline.

Sometimes, I rename the files in the PTF for use and reuse. Filenames like "20111231170522.mts" are not really user-friendly. And/or I add descriptions. Of course, this depends on what I am doing.

There is more, but this gives you some ideas since you are looking for efficiency and there is a tool to help.

Very interesting ideas. Do you happen to know of any video that demonstrates this workflow?

PRO Software

VPX has multiple timelines. You can import another project into the current project. You can do nesting - using a second movie as an object in another movie. Need to change it? Just switch to the other movie, make the change and the object in the main movie is updated. Vegas, the "pro" software, can only nest an external project into the current one and they are proud of this capability. No multiple timelines/movies.

Do you use multiple movies, import another project or movie into the current one to get access to its resources, use nesting?

I think that we have demonstrated that almost everything that you have mentioned has either been improved or can be done more efficiently differently. There are other new tools that we have not discussed, like "Split and Trim."

From my perspective, here's how I rate the improvements and your suggestions:

1. Selectable tracks: Excellent, from what you've told me. 10/10.

2. The Undo function: It doesn't work reliably in VPX 10. You seem satisfied with how it works in VPX 13. I'll take your word for it.

3. Shift-drag to slow down knob rotation for speed and pitch: This should help. I'd still prefer numeric entry to control pitch and speed. So 6/10.

4: How to enter a numeric value to set the volume of an audio object: 6/10. I have suggested a more efficient approach that could be implemented in addition to the existing functionality.

5: We didn't discuss keyframes, but I would need to test that again to more precisely document the quirks I have encountered.

6: Changing the color of an object: 6/10. A color palette would be more efficient, and preferable, if it could be hidden by users who don't want it.

7. Editing text in the preview monitor should work. I'll try it and see.

8. In Effects / Title Editing, using Shift-resize will enlarge the text box and the font size.

9. Snap markers: 8/10. Good feature, but they should have labels.

10. Time-stretching of multiple objects: Not solved.

Overall, the most important thing Magix can do is listen to its customers with an open mind. Customers that leave or don't upgrade typically don't explain why. I've explained my reasons, and you've provided some very helpful suggestions. But I encourage you to keep your mind open to my suggestions too, as I am sure they have merit.

Finally, I've read that the current version of VPX is still quite buggy. What's your opinion?

@Galaxy

Hi,

Have you actually counted the clicks and keyboard strokes to see which approach is more efficient?

No, because most of the things that you mentioned that require repeat clicks are things that most users don't do much of, as far as I know. Saving a few seconds here and there may save a minute or two out of a 30 hour project, at least for me. Of course, one has to know what to do, otherwise time is spent looking for an effect or feature.

Project Temp Folder - it's on my list, unfortunately way down on the list of tutorials to do. I should bump it up. As it is, I'm way behind on everything.

3. Do you really know the setting that you want for speed - BPM for audio, speed for video? For pitch, see my image and you'll see that there are +/- buttons. Magix should do this for BPM.

I have mentioned the stretch command. This allows you to drag the right end (left as well) left or right to change the speed. I use this as sometimes I want a video clip to be a certain duration (travel animation) like having it end at another clip, so, I can just drag the end and it snaps with the other object. The speed has been changed.

Is the stretch mode in VPX10?

4. Do you really know which volume setting that you want? Or is it trial and change?

You can suggest your addition to Magix.

5. Please test the keyframing and give us concrete examples to try out on the latest version. If there is still anything not up to par, we want it fixed.

6. Again, suggest this to Magix, but along with adding user buttons to the tool bar, please.

7. Editing text in the text box in the Preview Monitor is the only way to use multiple fonts, font sizes and colours in the same text box. Try it. Put in 2 words. Highlight the first word, give it a colour. Highlight the second word, change the font, size and colour. You'll get both.

8. No labels on snap markers please! Snap markers are also used to put automatically be put on a music audio for snapping to beats/for cutting to the beat.

I would prefer a new type of marker - Object Markers with labels - that stay with the object. Suggest this to Magix.

Magix is not here, so you have to raise a ticket and make your suggestions. They are always looking for new things to add. Then, conscript some members here to raise tickets with the same suggestions. Priority is given to the squeaky wheels.

VPX13 - just managed to update to the newest patch so I haven't tested it yet. From the patch list, it looks like they've taken care of the major problems. I'm about to take a chance and upgrade on my desktop. We'll know more in a couple of days once others have gone through it.

John CB

@Galaxy

Hi

. . . . I've offered a suggestion, but there seems to be some resistance to my idea. Do you actually understand my suggestion?  . . . .

It is not resistance - I think you missed the essential issue with your suggestion about the ablity to switch between some tasks eg adding a title, during which you want to switch to another eg adjust audio level.

Some tasks can be switched between, the example you gave and many others cannot.

Those where you cannot switch from an incomplete action to another task, are changing the focus of what the program is doing and either the context of the previous task is lost, or the software will not let you change focus until you confirm abandoning of the task in hand or complete it.

Do you use keyboard shortcuts when editing?

John EB

@Galaxy

Hi,

I forgot to mention that, for more efficiency, I use the ShuttlePro V2 with my left hand, mouse with the right. The ShuttlePro has 3 banks with the buttons programmed for different tasks. I use the buttons on the screen except where there are multiple choices, for the most part. Much quicker than using shortcuts or going through menus.

I will try out a macro on a button to see if I can get the object color selection list to show up with a click.

As for problems with VPX13, don't go there unless you have a very powerful machine, at least for the moment.

John CB

Project Temp Folder - it's on my list, unfortunately way down on the list of tutorials to do. I should bump it up. As it is, I'm way behind on everything.

If you ever post a video about this, I'd be very interested to watch it.

3. Do you really know the setting that you want for speed - BPM for audio, speed for video? For pitch, see my image and you'll see that there are +/- buttons. Magix should do this for BPM.

I agree.

I have mentioned the stretch command. This allows you to drag the right end (left as well) left or right to change the speed. I use this as sometimes I want a video clip to be a certain duration (travel animation) like having it end at another clip, so, I can just drag the end and it snaps with the other object. The speed has been changed.

Is the stretch mode in VPX10?

Yes, the stretch mode is a good feature. Sometimes I use it myself, the way you do. But more often, if a narrator spoke too slowly, and so several objects need to be sped up by about the same amount, then I right click and select Audio Functions / Timestretch/Resample or Ctrl-Shift-Q. That's when it's gets tedious, as I have to move the BPM knob to a similar value for each object, one after another. Holding the shift key helps, but it's still inefficient. There should be +/- buttons, as you suggested, or a field for numeric entry.

4. Do you really know which volume setting that you want? Or is it trial and change?

It's typically a combination of trial and error, and having to aim for a certain value, but then adjusting up or down in small increments. It's hard to do with a mouse.

You can suggest your addition to Magix.

5. Please test the keyframing and give us concrete examples to try out on the latest version. If there is still anything not up to par, we want it fixed.

When I first bought the software several years ago, I didn't like something about the key framing, so I didn't use it much. But after installing the original software download, I updated several times, so maybe whatever bothered me got fixed. In any case, I tried the keyframe feature again just now, and it's actually very useful and versatile.

For example, if I create a curve that controls the position of an object over time (e.g. a photo), and then if I shorten the length of the object (using normal mouse mode), part of the curve gets truncated. However, if I select "Combine effects curve with object length", then the curve itself gets compressed or stretched in time, along with the photo. That's useful. "Object stretch mouse mode" seems to accomplish the same thing.

6. Again, suggest this to Magix, but along with adding user buttons to the tool bar, please.

7. Editing text in the text box in the Preview Monitor is the only way to use multiple fonts, font sizes and colours in the same text box. Try it. Put in 2 words. Highlight the first word, give it a colour. Highlight the second word, change the font, size and colour. You'll get both.

Wow! That works! I didn't know it was possible.

8. No labels on snap markers please! Snap markers are also used to put automatically be put on a music audio for snapping to beats/for cutting to the beat.

I would prefer a new type of marker - Object Markers with labels - that stay with the object. Suggest this to Magix.

Good idea.

Magix is not here, so you have to raise a ticket and make your suggestions. They are always looking for new things to add. Then, conscript some members here to raise tickets with the same suggestions. Priority is given to the squeaky wheels.

Okay, I'll see if I can figure out how to do that.

VPX13 - just managed to update to the newest patch so I haven't tested it yet. From the patch list, it looks like they've taken care of the major problems. I'm about to take a chance and upgrade on my desktop. We'll know more in a couple of days once others have gone through it.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of the latest patch. Your suggestions have changed my opinion of the software overall, so once there is a stable patch, I'll probably upgrade from version 16.

Thanks.

Some tasks can be switched between, the example you gave and many others cannot.

Those where you cannot switch from an incomplete action to another task, are changing the focus of what the program is doing and either the context of the previous task is lost, or the software will not let you change focus until you confirm abandoning of the task in hand or complete it.

Do you use keyboard shortcuts when editing?

For tasks that I do frequently, yes, I use keyboard shortcuts.

I tend to use the defaults, except for Export Movie in the File menu. In that sub-menu, the defaults mostly use this format:

Ctrl + Alt + [alphabet letter]

Unfortunately, there is a conflict, because those key combinations are the only ones Microsoft allows for launching programs in Windows. Since I already have those assigned in Windows, I can't use them in VPX. I guess the Magix developers have never noticed this conflict.

Besides that, in some other Windows programs, such as Cubase, MS Word, and Photoshop, users can create macros, and assign keyboard shortcuts to launch them. I think that would be useful in VPX too.

@Galaxy

Hi

. . . . Unfortunately, there is a conflict, because those key combinations are the only ones Microsoft allows for launching programs in Windows. Since I already have those assigned in Windows, I can't use them in VPX. I guess the Magix developers have never noticed this conflict. . . . .

There is not a conflict Magix can fix - what you are doing, and most of what you have been suggesting Magix should do with the program, is your personal preferred way of working.

Macros (Scripting) is a good suggestion, however it does have to a viable option, they are a feature of Vegas Pro.

John EB

. . . . Unfortunately, there is a conflict, because those key combinations are the only ones Microsoft allows for launching programs in Windows. Since I already have those assigned in Windows, I can't use them in VPX. I guess the Magix developers have never noticed this conflict. . . . .

There is not a conflict Magix can fix -

If Magix changed the default shortcuts in that submenu, the new key combinations might conflict with custom hotkeys that some users have already assigned for other tasks in VPX. Is that what concerns you?