Digitised 8mm film export video issue

personal2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 11:55 AM

I have digitised an old standard 8mm film (using the Reflecta film scanner for those interested) to create an MP4 file at 1440x 1080.which I imported into a MEP file set to 720x576 and adjusted accordingly, When I export the film to MP4 or MPG at 720x576 PAL the whole film plays fine, but when I introduce a split to erase a scene say (even if I don't erase it), every bit of video after the split doesn't show on playing the export. It isn't necessarily the first split in the movie, because I have also edited the film with several scene splits earlier on and the parts after these splits export ok until reaching a particular split when everything thereafter does not export (video, the audio tracks export fine). If I remove the scene after the split and extend the scene before it to cover the split, it exports that scene (which includes the bit that was after the split) and plays it ok, until it reaches the next split and then everything after that doesn't export. I did a Scene Recognition on the imported MP4 file before adjusting the gamma etc on each scene. I'm running Win 10 with Intel Xeon 64bit and 16Gb RAM. Any thoughts please?

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 11/28/2021, 12:37 PM

@personal2

We need more information:

Computer specification and program version, see this topic for what is required and please quote processor and graphics card make/model in full - I would suggest you put this information in your profile signature so we do not have to keep asking for it.

Are the graphics card drivers up to date?

A screen shot of the Program settings, Display options or Device options tab.

Download and install MediaInfo and analyse one of the source videoclips and post the results, see this tutorial if you are not familiar with MediaInfo on how to setup MediaInfo and analyse a video clip.

Export preset your are using

Was there any error dialog that popped up during exporting if so what was the message?

John EB
Forum Moderator

personal2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 1:50 PM

Thanks for that John.. newbie to this forum, so apart from having searched for an answer earlier, I haven't yet twigged what was required info... I'll add the info to my profile signature. Regarding the export, no, the export compiled cleanly. After about 20 export attempts I watched the counter and I could see where it was no longer exporting video but continued to export audio. The point where it stopped was clear on the edit (timeline), but it had cleanly exported several other splits. I saw one difference was that I had checked the White balance box. I unchecked it in hope, but it made no difference. I'll go now and update the profile.

CubeAce wrote on 11/28/2021, 2:01 PM

@personal2

hi.

If you are converting resolution down from 1440x 1080 then to maintain the aspect ratio it should be 720 x 405. You may have to set that manually in the export settings. See if anything improves with the exports.

Ray.

personal2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 3:20 PM

Thank you for the suggestion, CubeAce, I will check on the actual resolutions. For John, here is the MediaInfo output:

General
Complete name : C:\Users\admin\Documents\Magix Projects\Cine to Video Conversions\0041.MP4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42 (isom/avc1/mp42)
File size : 277 MiB
Duration : 3 min 54 s
Overall bit rate : 9 926 kb/s
Movie_More : CarDV-TURNKEY
Encoded date : UTC 2017-01-01 01:15:27
Tagged date : UTC 2017-01-01 01:15:27
Origin : NVT-IM

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=15
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 3 min 54 s
Bit rate : 9 831 kb/s
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 20.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.316
Stream size : 274 MiB (99%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2017-01-01 01:15:27
Tagged date : UTC 2017-01-01 01:15:27
Codec configuration box : avcC

I hope this means something to someone, I am lost!

personal2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 3:31 PM

Here are the info panels requested by John:

personal2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 3:36 PM

@personal2

hi.

If you are converting resolution down from 1440x 1080 then to maintain the aspect ratio it should be 720 x 405. You may have to set that manually in the export settings. See if anything improves with the exports.

Ray.

Hi Ray, thanks for the info... just a question please, I can understand 1440 reducing to 720 (i.e. 50%) but why isn't the Y axis 540 not 405 as you suggest?

Regards

Tony

CubeAce wrote on 11/28/2021, 3:44 PM

@personal2

Hi Tony.

I used an aspect ratio calculator . Try one here.

Ray.

CubeAce wrote on 11/28/2021, 3:48 PM

@personal2

My Bad Tony. I typed in the incorrect aspect ratio.

Ray.

personal2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 3:49 PM

Last report tonight.. I think Ray (CubeAce) has cracked it! As per his recommendation I changed the output resolution but to 720x540 (see my question to him). I applied the same splits as previously and - bingo! - I now have a pukka MP4 of a film I took in 1968 in time for my cousin's 80th birthday - he features on the film and has never seen it! Don't tell him before Wednesday!

Many thanks to you all for your help..

Best regards

Tony (digging through the snow as we speak)

personal2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 3:51 PM

@personal2

My Bad Tony. I typed in the incorrect aspect ratio.

Ray.

In providing a solution that worked, you are forgiven!

CubeAce wrote on 11/28/2021, 4:09 PM

@personal2

Hi Tony.

Well that's a first for me. 😂

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 11/28/2021, 5:36 PM

MP42 codec I see.

CubeAce wrote on 11/28/2021, 6:21 PM

@AAProds

Hi Al.

True, but as a non standardized old codec, maybe this one works or maybe I've accidentally stumbled onto ratio problem within the codec when converting it to another resolution. I really don't know.

I don't even begin to pretend I know anything about encoding or decoding problems but the one thing I've realised is that if the numbers being read or written or targeted at are wrong they can ruin any chance of success.

One of my main reasons I hated the main concept encoder was the ability to get those numbers wrong so easily when experimenting with it and not understanding the relationships those numbers had with each other. I still don't but I'm beginning to make more headway with it in my old copy of Vegas Studio as I prefer its layout there. I have not tried it in VPX 11 yet.

What is your take on it? I hope I understand your answer.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 11/28/2021, 6:52 PM

@AAProds, @CubeAce

Hi Alwyn, Ray

. . . . MP42 codec I see. . . . . but as a non standardized old codec

mp42 is the container ID, which Mediainfo wrongly calls it a codec id. It refers to MPEG-4 Part 14 spec for the mp4 container file standardised in 2001.

The video codec is AVC (h.264).

The only 'non standard' item in the MediaInfo data is the framerate of 20fps - given the source is standard 8mm film the framerate should be 16 fps, (Super 8 was 18 fps) - the Reflecta scans frame by frame..

John EB

AAProds wrote on 11/28/2021, 8:45 PM

720x576 4:3 is the bog-standard PAL SD resolution. MEP must have a bug if it can't export 1440x1080 (also 4:3) video as 720x576 4:3.

JohnEB: point taken. Interestingly, FFDShow gives a separate decode option for MP42 files.

browj2 wrote on 11/28/2021, 10:47 PM

@johnebaker

Hi John EB,

The only 'non standard' item in the MediaInfo data is the framerate of 20fps - given the source is standard 8mm film the framerate should be 16 fps, (Super 8 was 18 fps) - the Reflecta scans frame by frame.

Just to clarify, the Reflecta, like the Wolverine that I use, produce files at 20fps for both 8mm and Super8. To correct the speed once on the timeline, I change the Speed to 16 or 18 fps. My projects are 29.97 fps and the speed adjustment gives the correct output. One thing, there is no audio to complicate the process.

For Super8 Sound, I record the audio separately and capture the video with audio by playing it through my projector into a telecine box and record with a camera - but just for helping to line up the audio with the digitized file. The speed is always slightly off, but the reference helps. I use ACL for recording the audio in from the projector's audio out.

I will try out the latest version of MEP tomorrow with some 8mm scans.

John CB

Scenestealer wrote on 11/29/2021, 12:47 AM

@personal2

Hi Tony

Always best to keep resolution pixel aspect ratios proportional as resizing creates more processing load during play back and export that could tax resources.

Peter

personal2 wrote on 11/29/2021, 3:35 PM

Thanks for the additional info from contributors today, I have never had a problem with outputting to 720x576 before but then I have been inputting from old VHS or Hi8 up to now. I also output to 720x576 from MPx captures on my iPhone for use as lo-res YouTube videos without any problems. One thing I investigated (among many yesterday) before coming on to the Forum for the very welcome help, was whether the Scene Recognition might have screwed things up. I notice that sometimes SR splits in a way that leaves tiny sub-sec fragments. In the past when I have attempted an AB dissolve the B segment disappears behind the A which I later discovered on zooming right in, was due to one of these tiny fragments. Delete the fragment and the dissolve is fine.

MEP is still Gold Standard for me!

Regards

Tony