@John-Smith5561 @emmrecs

Hi John.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and suggest you are using screen captured footage in your projects.

Either way we do need to see the file data generated by the freely downloaded program (MediaInfo) Jeff has suggested to give you any meaningful reply, as there are problems associated with files produced with most screen capture or some video file conversion programs and the ability of the newer versions VPX or MEP to handle them.

Ray.

@John-Smith5561

Hi

. . . . I'd be hard pressed to even consider it being a hardware issue, so don't bother. . . .

As @emmrecs has commented

. . . . your hardware is certainly pretty "high-end" but that does not automatically mean that there is not something there that is not a contributory factor. . . .

This is true, and there is another potential issue considering that the CPU does not meet the system requirements for VPX, in that it has no integrated GPU.

It is unlikely that this is a contributing factor to the audio issue unless you are loading HEVC encoded video, in multi cam mode for editing, on to the timeline and the RTX 2080 is not being utilised for Hardware Acceleration of the preview playback.

John EB
Forum Moderator

@John-Smith5561

I just checked VPX12 (18.0.1.89) on my two vastly different computers, nothing close to the power that you have, and the audio works fine, through speakers, wireless headphones and M-Audio M-Track interface. I presume that Jeff, Ray, and John EB also have no problem, so can we say that your problem is not with VPX?

We don't know what audio card you have or what source material you are using.

You say that the audio clips. Does that show up in the Mixer?

There doesn't seem to be any option to actually reach out and contact support and I'm getting a lot frustrated. Wondering if I should just issue a chargeback to my credit card for this software.

You were given a link to log in to Support in your other post. You can also click on the Support button at the top of the forum. Follow through what you see on the screen by selecting the choices that correspond to your software, etc., and you will soon get to the screen to create a ticket. Why is this so difficult?

I get there with about 6 clicks and after typing in the preliminary subject.

After opening the ticket, you'll get a confirmation email with a ticket number to which you can reply and add more detail, attachments, etc. I think that you will be asked to run a system info program and send the results to Magix. Do so.

John CB

@emmrecs I appreciate the link to the contact for support. Literally could not find it on this site as all the links to 'Contact Support' just take me to a 'Find Solutions' Page with no actual links to contact support and seemed to lop me back to the support portal. Never saw a 'Send A Support Request'. Chalk it up to bad design, but if you present your users with a 'Ask Support' request and then loop them into forums after 3 clicks, that's not support.

"...don't bother suggesting hardware..."

I read a bunch of other posts and inevitably, the first suggestion seems to be that the users hardware isn't sufficient. I wanted to pre-empt that and assure people that my hardware is most definitely sufficient.

Audio drivers are up to date and the sound care is an onboard Realtek S1220A. Settings were adjusted via File -> Settings -> Program and adjusted all the following without seeing any change:

• Driver Selection: Wave driver vs Direct Sound
• Output Device: I have several ranging from HDMI/Displayport signals on my monitors, onboard Realtek device, and Virtual outputs.
• Audio buffer: Increased the buffer number when using Wave Driver and the buffer size of both multitrack and preview size.

@CubeAce Actually, not screen captured, but one is stream-captured via OBS. Another is raw DV-avi footage and another was an MP4 clip that I downloaded to test. All clips perform just fine in other players and editors. The only one that mangled the audio was VPX and that was in both preview and render.

@johnebaker I believe what you're reading on the requirements page refers to the minimum requirements IF your processor is using an integrated GPU like you'd find on a laptop or AIO. The dedicated GPU I have (RTX 2080) most definitely meets the min. req. But you're right in any case, it's not (shouldn't) be a GPU issue. Neither clips are HVEC encoded and I'm not using MC mode. The RTX is being used for preview. That was a large part of the decision to upgrade to VPX 12.

@browj2 I suspect the issue isn't with any hardware, but rather something about the codecs that are being utilized to process the signal. And it sounds like it's being clipped, but it's more of a 'garble'. I checked the mixer and even futzed with levels on both the clip timeline and the main mixer 'console'. Nada. And re: support links. 6 clicks is 4 too many and I still had to use your screenshots to locate it. It's almost like they don't want to be contacted...

@all Appreciate that ideas though.

Bah, forgot to paste the MI text. Looks like they're both AAC, but different encodings. And I forgot to mention that I did change the project settings from 44.1 sample rates to 48khz sample rates and that also didn't seem to change anything.

Media Info analysis:
Clip 1:

• ID                                       : 2
  Format                               : AAC LC
  Format/Info                        : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
  Codec ID                           : mp4a-40-2
  Duration                             : 11 min 38 s
  Bit rate mode                      : Constant
  Bit rate                                : 161 kb/s
  Channel(s)                          : 2 channels
  Channel layout                   : L R
  Sampling rate                      : 44.1 kHz
  Frame rate                           : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
  Compression mode             : Lossy
  Stream size                         : 13.4 MiB (6%)
  
   

Clip 2:

• ID                                       : 2
  Format                               : AAC LC
  Format/Info                        : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
  Codec ID                           : mp4a-40-2
  Duration                            : 23 s 40 ms
  Bit rate mode                     : Variable
  Bit rate                               : 132 kb/s
  Channel(s)                         : 2 channels
  Channel layout                   : L R
  Sampling rate                     : 48.0 kHz
  Frame rate                         : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
  Compression mode            : Lossy
  Stream size                         : 368 KiB (2%)
   

@John-Smith5561

I'm stumped on what could be causing the issue. The sysinfo for Magix may give them a clue.

As for support, Magix changed the look of the way to get to the end point, but the process is the same. I disagree with your statement that there are too many clicks and there reasons should be obvious..

You have to indicate which software type, then product, look at possible solutions (FAQ), after all, why ask if the question has already been answered, try something else by searching so you put in the subject, no suggested answers work? Click on Send a Support Request and the search subject becomes the title. It isn't that hard.

If it was easier, Magix would be inundated with users asking questions that have already been answered, probably multiple times.

The way it was before and what you would like was - Login, Ask for Tech support or Commercial support? Yes, now you're in! Then you have to Indicate which software type, which product, look at possible solutions (FAQ), try something else by searching so you put in the subject, no suggested answers work? Complete the process. So really, there is no difference in the process. And, it's not that hard.

There is more by clicking the product in the first Support screen and looking a possible solutions, including how to get Support.

John CB

@browj2 Even barring the click count, the messaging/content of the pages could be clearer to indicate a refinement of the issue prior to contacting support vs what appears to be an attempt to re-direct away from support. Bad Form. It's not the clicks that are hard, it's the obscuring that makes it difficult.

Another clip displaying the issue, just in case anybody wants more examples or attempt to reproduce the issue:
 

• ID                                       : 0-0
  Format                                : PCM
  Format settings                  : Big / Signed
  Muxing mode                     : DV
  Muxing mode, more info    : Muxed in Video #1
  Duration                             : 28 s 128 ms
  Bit rate mode                     : Constant
  Bit rate                               : 1 536 kb/s
  Channel(s)                         : 2 channels
  Sampling rate                    : 48.0 kHz
  Bit depth                            : 16 bits
  Stream size                       : 5.15 MiB (5%)

@John-Smith5561

Hi

You did not post the full MI info for either video clip - however from what you have posted the first clip looks like it is an OBS recording - is that correct?

If so there is a very long topic on issues with OBS recordings with solutions here although it refers to Movie Edit Pro it also applies to VPX.

The second clip could be anything, please post the full data from the Text view. Has this video had a new audio stream added to it or had an external recording muxed into it?

. . . . your processor is using an integrated GPU like you'd find on a laptop or AIO. The dedicated GPU I have (RTX 2080) most definitely meets the min. req. . . . .

You also need an integrated GPU no matter how 'high end' the CPU is, as it stands currently the only video format you can export and use the 2080 for accelerated encoding through NVENC is HEVC, for h.264/AVC an Intel iGPU is required.

As far as the Support system goes if you read all the information as you work through it takes you to a point where it asks you if you want to contact support, see the guide here.

John EB

@johnebaker I didn't post the full info b/c the issue pertained only to the audio processing, not the video. But, if you want to have a closer look, I put it up here for you: https://pastebin.com/GrcCLAQF

Checked out the OBS issue you linked to, but nothing there seems similar to the issue I'm encountering. And I thought I mentioned Movie Studio: the audio problems mentioned here are NOT replicated. Movie Studio seems to work just fine.

Last bit; I assure you, you're misinterpreting the 'integrated GPU' requirement. 'Higher end' workstations typically have socket types/chipsets which very specifically don't support integrated GPU's. Intel as an example has igpu support on some of their LGA115x line, but not on the recent LGA2066 line. Workstations based around the 2011/2066 tend to support high end rendering/video processing better than their counterparts. The requirement you're seeing is a minimum one: If that's what you're using, it needs to be at least 'this big'.

So, again, you definitely do not need an igpu to perform hardware accelerated (or just basic) h.264 encoding. The RTX 2080TI uses the 6th gen TU102 NVENC which definitely supports h.264 AVC in addition to h.265 HEVC. You can see the specs here. And here is the MI output of the same clip rendered in both h.264 and h.265 using hardware acceleration via NVENC on a 2066 intel socket, non igpu i9-9980XE.


 

@John-Smith5561

Last bit; I assure you, you're misinterpreting the 'integrated GPU' requirement.

I assure you it is you that is misinterpreting the requirement.....especially with this statement "So, again, you definitely do not need an igpu to perform hardware accelerated (or just basic) h.264 encoding.

Magix have in recent years built their program around Intel processors with Integrated GPU's especially in their use of Hardware Acceleration for encoding H.264 and H.265. Try searching the forum for "No hardware acceleration" and you will get the picture. It is only recently that they have enabled NVENC for H.265 only encoding (no 264 encoding), and H.264 and H.265 playback decoding on discreet Nvidia and AMD GPU's with VPX.

While you are there check out this topic:- https://www.magix.info/us/forum/audio-problem-with-playback-of-old-avi-files--1235371/?page=2 which may explain at least the issue with your DV-AVI Type 1 files.

Peter

@John-Smith5561

Hi

In addition to @Scenestealer comment regarding interpretation of the system requirements - trying to fit the software to the hardware is doomed to have issues.

. . . .  Workstations based around the 2011/2066 tend to support high end rendering/video processing better than their counterparts . . . .

This is a very generalised statement and is only true when the hardware meets the system requirements of the software being used.

. . . . Checked out the OBS issue you linked to, but nothing there seems similar to the issue I'm encountering . . . .

Perhaps this will help clarify the issues - there are issues with clips 1 and 2:

1. Clip 1 - 2 issues
   
   overall bitrate for 1280x720 at 2670 kbs is too low - this will affect picture quality - for this resolution 5000 - 10000 kbs is the norm
   
   audio is sampled a 44.1 kHz
    
2. Clip 2  - 1 issue
   
   audio is sampled a 44.1 kHz

All in all you have 2 different audio issues to deal with and correct for future recordings - sample rate and format which takes you back to the OBS topic linked to.

Video editors, in general, expect and output audio at 48 kHz sample rate for video - you can see the audio samplerate is 48kHz in the 2 clips you exported and provided MI data for - this is a standard requirement for audio in video.

The 44.1 kHz samplerate is for audio CD's and while video editors can import 44.1 kHz sampled video, it is known to cause issues.

. . . . MI output of the same clip rendered in both h.264 and h.265 using hardware acceleration . . . .

How did you check that h.264 was using Hardware Acceleration for export - if you went by the heading in the export dialog showing 'Hardware acceleration' this does not mean the 2080 was using NVENC to encode.

The 2080 is decoding the source video - in the examples you have given clips 1 and 2 as these are AVC (h.264) encoded. NVENC support for h.264 does not exist in VPX yet, irrespective of what NVENC actually supports.

John EB

@John-Smith5561

You said at the beginning that:

Doesn't matter what track or what source, every new project created has the same problem: Mangled/garbled/crackly/clipped audio. I've tried multiple formats, multiple sources. 

By this, I was assuming that you tried some wave files or ogg, like some of the free songs, or something from Song Maker, Slideshow music, and even the Demo project that comes with VPX. It seems that you did not.

Try the Demo project, try some normal audio files, like those that come with VPX. Do they work or do you have the same problem? If they work fine, then we'll know much better that the problems are likely with the material that you're using. Although this seems to be established already, we should make sure.

So that this thread is more future-proof, what exactly is the version of VPX that you are using?

John CB

@johnebaker OK, It looks like we were talking about different things. The min req. you referenced at the beginning I took to mean the software itself. I had tested using small clips and they rendered quickly enough that I didn't notice anything amiss. Points for a rocking CPU. However, testing it with a larger clip and it's quickly apparent that there's a 4-6x increase in rendering times. Probably more if I really took it to task. I'm completely dumbfounded that VPX doesn't support NVENC. Like, that never even occurred to me and it definitely didn't come across in the docs. Handbrake, Adobe Premier, ffmpeg, even PowerDirector all are able to utilize NVENC. Even Vegas Movie Studio which Magix owns now I think? supports NVENC. I'm just...dumbstruck that VPX doesn't.

Re: bitrates. Where are you getting your information from?? 2.6mbs is well within reason for 720p@30fps. But image quality isn't the point of this post: Audio is. And the only audio issues I know of or have encountered wrt to differing sample rates is sync/timing issues, not this sort of garbled/clipping/popping. If it's the case that VPX can't properly render 44.1khz audio samples then it really shouldn't be a setting. Which, also goes for that encoding: If it doesn't detect supported hardware encoders, then it shouldn't be giving users the option to 'Use Hardware Encoding'.

In any case, I think I've gotten all I need. This is clearly not the software I thought it would be and I'll just go back to paying for Premiere. I hate Adobe to no end (I still can't forgive them for what they did to Macromedia, RIP), but VPX just seems more and more not the pro-level software it claims to be. :-(

Thanks everyone for helping out, I appreciate the feedback/info.

@John-Smith5561

Hi John.

Reading your original post again I do know from experience that setting a high sampling rate and adding too many audio buffers in VPX or MEP results in distorted audio. Personally I have never had to use more than 4 buffers and keeping to around 16384 samples in both multitrack and preview size in the program setup menu helps.

Ray.

@John-Smith5561

Hi

. . . . Where are you getting your information from?? 2.6mbs is well within reason for 720p@30fps. . . . .

It may be for direct playback after recording and the player plays the video at its native resolution, however once you start playing at 1920 x 1080 or higher resolutions screens you will see a difference.

For editing video you need more data (higher bitrate) to start with - the video, as recorded has already been compressed (data thrown away).

During editing the source video is not touched as far as the editing decisions you make go - it is only used as a source for playback in the program with any effects etc applied in real time, it is only when exporting that the source video gets used in a destructive way on it passage from input to output through the program.

On exporting the source video is decompressed, not all the data that was thrown away is recovered, all editing decisions and effects used are applied and the video is then recompressed, again throwing away data, to the final output format, bitrate, resolution and framerate.

Therefore a higher source video bitrate is of of more benefit, even more so if, for example, the 720p source video is going to be upscaled to 1080p/i.

I hope this explains why I said the 720p video is too low a bitrate. If you search the Internet you fill find many tables of resolutions/framerate giving the recommended bitrates for various scenarios, these include uploading to Youtube /Vimeo etc, DVD/BD disc creation and so on.

. . . . (I still can't forgive them for what they did to Macromedia, RIP) . . . .

Hear! hear! - they took the best HTML editor ever and mangled it.

HTH

John EB

@John-Smith5561

Well it's a shame you are jumping ship without a resolution, especially as you made this comment:- The RTX is being used for preview. That was a large part of the decision to upgrade to VPX 12. And it does this spectacularly well when you have a complex, multi track, high resolution timeline.

As John EB and I have explained it does use NVENC for HEVC encoding and did this back in May 2018. Premiere only instituted this in May last year. Why Magix have not enabled H.264 via NVENC we can only speculate, but it must be some kind of licensing conflict. It uses NVDEC for H.264 and HEVC to great effect however.

Did you actually run the sound problem by Magix Support in the end?

And it sounds like it's being clipped, but it's more of a 'garble'.

I vaguely remember a very few instances of something that might be what you are hearing - sort of like talking underwater...after render, and it may have been on clips that have had a speed change applied in the program... but that is all I can tell you.

Also, so we don't die wondering, have you tried resetting the "Program Settings to Defaults" from the file menu?

Peter

@johnebaker Literally familiar with everything you've said about 720p/bitrates, etc...not to worry. I'm aware of the consequences on video quality and make sure I tailor it as needed for the job. Not everything needs high throughput. Regardless, it still doesn't address the sound issues. And yea, Dreamweaver + Fireworks was the bomb. I don't think I've found anything their equal to this day.

@Scenestealer Yea, I don't know either. The NVENC sdk is MIT licensed I think, so should be available for use. They probably just haven't felt the need to implement it, low on their kanban priority list or something. And I certainly didn't want to jump ship, VPX seemed like it was going to hit the points I needed to get away from some of the tool chains I've been on, but, alas. I've already hit a few other snags and, just, meh things that I honestly should have spotted sooner (why is there a hot for every type of export, but then I have to use the most to nav through the entry fields!?!) and a few other bugs that seem to crop up.

I did reach out to support re: the sound issue. I somehow got it to go away on one of my exports, but I have no idea how and can't replicate it for the life of me. It may have involved multiple reboots and muting/unmuting multiple timelines. I'll ping this thread again when/if I get resolution so it's available for the future. And yes, resetting Program Settings has been done. Had to do that to get rid of the constant 'PLEASE INSTALL THIS EXTRA STUFF!!' dialogue box. ugh lol