Thoughts from a ONCE loyal customer

Christopher-Frank wrote on 10/3/2019, 6:42 PM

What has Magix done to all of these once great products????


I had used Sound Forge since the time it was initially developed. Years before even Sony acquired the company. Over many years, as my production needs grew, Sound Forge kept up with the times. I added Acid and Vegas to the software I owned and used all 3 almost on a daily basis.

I had high hopes Magix would do something wonderful with these products. Unfortunately, the company has simply ran the software and the brand into the gutter. Acid 7 was a powerhouse but sadly it remained 32 bit. Now Magix offers Acid 9 Next. The program is horridly unstable and filled with bugs. Crashes occur regularly even after installing onto a brand new SSD drive with Nothing on it other than a Windows install. Things got so bad I had to abandon Acid and teach myself how to use a new DAW.

Next to start going was Vegas. I used to use Vegas for mixdowns. It once was just as powerful a multi track audio workstation as it was a video editor. I understand why the company made it more of a one note Video Edit program and i admit out of the 3 programs this is the most stable. Though I never really use it now as it is a bit of a resource hog even just for multi track audio.

Sound Forge was always my "go to." It was amazing when it first came out. Finally a program for Windows that rivaled Mac's dominance over the audio and music industry. So today, I thought I would give Sound Forge Pro another chance to see where its at. With ONE file open attempting to use ONE VST (izotope Ozone 9 Standard - brand new upgrade from Ozone 8), Sound Forge hung then black windowed then crashed. Thank goodnes I only tried a Trial version.

The truth is, there is better freeware / open source programs than what Magix is offering. The company seems more interested in adding to the price of their products (Acid Next - Sound Forge Studio - etc) rather than creating solid builds. Even more illogical is that they don't archive previous builds so that a customer can go back to a prior version if the new build causes issues! I had to go into my registry to prevent Magix programs from constantly trying to update fearing the next build would be worse. The one HUGE mistake I had was not keeping the install file for Acid 9 PRIOR to the 9.0.124 - it has been from that build forward that everything started falling apart.

Being told "their working on a fix" by a forum moderator when money and time has been wasted is NOT how to build customer loyalty. I stick with izotope plugin because they run effortlessly every time. I use EastWest for my VSTi need because they are robust and, more important, offer CHAT to its customers... and the people you chat with are the ones who CREATE the software. So when I couldn't get an instrument articulation accurate, I was able to chat right away and was able to immediately trouble shoot with someone who knew what they were talking about!! Oh, and none of their products have EVER crashed. I'll still check every now and then hoping Magix releases a solid build. After all, I have been used to the GUI for 20+ years now. But I have work that has to get completed So I gave in and got Pro Tools for audio and Reaper (which is incredible at handling whatever you throw its way - MIDI or audio wise).

If Magix ever actual FIX the problems would I consider using Acid, SF, and Vegas again? If it happened within a month or two, probably. But once I'm committed to something it's hard to drag me away. Once I get comfortable with Pro Tools and Reaper, I'll stay with them for years.
Anyway, those are the thoughts of a once loyal customer.

Comments

mjn wrote on 10/4/2019, 3:07 PM

Thanks for taking the time to type that up. It is helpful to people like myself who still use the Sony versions of ACID and Sound Forge and come here to read up on how the newer versions are functioning.

mellotronworker wrote on 10/6/2019, 6:42 AM

@Christopher-Frank I cannot agree with you any more. Magix has destroyed the product completely. I'm well aware that support forums seldom have any nice job, well done posts anywhere on them as the people who come to it are seldom those who are having no problems at all. But here - have a look at the top posts on the forum; the problems are not just numerous - they are fundamental.

I keep ACID 7/8/9 on my system because I have to - I have money invested in it and - more importantly - a whole load of musical projects which I may need to re-open some time. That they cannot always be re-opened without the usual round of unpredictable issues, ranging from dropping VSTs, losing effects, whole arrangements failing to be recognised by the very software that created them, and random white screens of death that presage another loss of work. I've switched to another DAW that seems to...well...work. (Ironically, I think it was put together by former Sony software engineers who worked on ACID back in the day)

Sorry Magix - but ACID is dreadful. I am genuinely pissed off that I shelled out money for this, and even more pissed off that I shelled out money for v9 which was supposed to sort all the problems from before. As anyone who uses the product can tell you, v9 is substantially more unusable than the latest versions of v8. As has been said elsewhere, 'we are working on a fix' is no solution.

At best I feel like an unpaid, unannounced pre-alpha tester; at worst I feel like I am the victim of some kind of fraud.

sheppo wrote on 10/8/2019, 3:09 PM

Thanks for the honest, civil, and constructive feedback. Even as a paying customer it's a hard to read, but you've raised some perfectly valid points that I hope Magix can learn from.

Trensharo wrote on 10/11/2019, 6:09 PM

Sorry Magix - but ACID is dreadful. I am genuinely pissed off that I shelled out money for this, and even more pissed off that I shelled out money for v9 which was supposed to sort all the problems from before. As anyone who uses the product can tell you, v9 is substantially more unusable than the latest versions of v8. As has been said elsewhere, 'we are working on a fix' is no solution.

There is pretty strong precedent for this if you've used any MAGIX software and followed their development.

Major bug fixes and QoL requests are put in upgrades. You basically need 3-4 years of MAGIX Software Upgrades to equate to one major upgrade from another vendor.

They also have very, very short support lifecycle...

You should always wait a couple of weeks after a release to see what the state of the software is like, as that can give you an idea of what state it will be in in 11-13 months, when they drop it from support and release a new version.

If the at-release quality isn't enough to get you to upgrade, then you're unlikely to be considerably more happy wiht the product at the end of its support lifecycle... so either you upgrade, sit on it and deal with the issues, or replace it with a competing package.

There is a free Pro-Level DAW on Windows that does Loop Arranging just fine. No one has to go through this.

At some point, consumers need to stop blaming companies for being "anti-consumer" and start blaming themselves for being naive. If you keep paying for what you percieve to be a low quality product, there will never be an incentive for them to deliver better.

EDIT: Glaringly incorrect word/typo.

Teles wrote on 10/11/2019, 8:01 PM

I hate to agree but I must. Sound Forge is adding features I never wanted while in fact taking a few out. Gracenotes disappeared which is quite useful to me. I will really miss the beats timeline of SF, but RX7 is now my audio editor. Acid is too clumsy in VSTi and plugin effects, it just cannot beat Ableton Live. IMO Acid and SF are far too expensive for what they are.

Christopher-Frank wrote on 10/12/2019, 4:06 AM

@Teles @Trensharo @mellotronworker This is genius! I wrote a beautiful farewell post thanking the 3 of you for your invaluable replies and to bring closure to the abusive relationship Magix products had entangled me within. (Admittedly, it was a bit Shakespearean abut it was pretty good lol).

I hit the post button (thinking I should copy the text). Magix Forum crashed! My swan song "puff" gone before my eyes in an instant!!!

Thank God... everything Magix has touched over the past few months has sucked so bad, I'm on a new DAW with no intent to return this way. I finished the Requiem I was commissioned to compose in less than a week on a different DAW... compared to the week I couldn't create because ACID wouldn't remain stable fore more than 10 minutes.

 

Thankyou again for your thoughts.

Petet wrote on 10/19/2019, 6:44 PM

I would have paid $1000 for acid pro 7 64 bit. (still would) If I owned acid I would have made a solid version 7 64 bit with 64 bit only vst and nothing else new and gone from there in regards to features and skin changes. Acid is like the 'ns10' of the daw world.

Torsten wrote on 10/25/2019, 9:36 AM

Hi, thank you for your honest feedback,

@Christopher-Frank @Petet@Petet @mellotronworker @Teles @mjn

The huge variety of VST plug-ins can no longer be mastered through our internal tests and the beta forum.

Therefore I'd like to invite you to a public public beta test that we started today in this thread@Petethttps://www.magix.info/us/forum/acid-pro-8-9-next-public-beta-versions--1232184/

Best,

Torsten and the ACID dev team

Christopher-Frank wrote on 10/30/2019, 7:28 AM

Hi, thank you for your honest feedback,

@Christopher-Frank @Petet@Petet @mellotronworker @Teles @mjn

The huge variety of VST plug-ins can no longer be mastered through our internal tests and the beta forum.

Therefore I'd like to invite you to a public public beta test that we started today in this thread@Petethttps://www.magix.info/us/forum/acid-pro-8-9-next-public-beta-versions--1232184/

Best,

Torsten and the ACID dev team

I'll give it a download and quick lookover... Truth is, you guys have lost me. I taught myself how to use 2 other DAWs (Reaper, which is lightweight, never crashes and handles massive MIDI and ReWire projects without a hitch... I use it for Orchestral Works I compose. It slaves Sibelius, including realtime dynamic notations flawlessly. And ProTool for Club Creations. I think that program is bloated but it seems to be everyone's goto. Plus I went ahead and bought Cubase [which I used to use in the 90s] and taught myself that too as a backup.)

When you guys first mentioned the VST 32 bit bridge I scratched my head wondering why you'd waste your time. 64 bit home PCs have been commonplace for about 20 years now. Companies are clinging onto 32 bit more than consumers are... just like vinyl became cassette became CD became mp3 became streaming, people adapt.

Android went all 64 years ago without any big fanfare. Anyway, you know I'm opinionated lol. I'll give the beta a chance and be open minded about it. Just please get Acid 9 down perfect before you decide to release ACID 10 upgrades for (cur-ching) $$.

Here's my suggestions -

Call the program "ACID DONE RIGHT" (ah, me at a Grateful Dead concert in the 90s... oops... um) get rid of the ACID 10, ACID 11, blah blah stuff. just make the build's release date the version i.e. ACID DONE RIGHT 220220 (released 22nd, Feb 2020). Whoever is not on a subscription is always able to update essential core features and patches and get a lifetime of free core program upgrades. What you DO charge for are new feature "packages."

For example, lets say the next build better utilizes CPU and GPU for creating almost zero latency (just making that up lol), it's part of the core program so everyone can update to the build... plus the build has a brand new MIDI Glitch Sequencer... to add that to the update its only X amount of $ (included, of course, for new purchases)... Trust me, it'll generate greater customer loyalty and higher revenues.

 

ACTUALLY, i downloaded. but a midi 1 track in that only had 2 flute parts, assigned VSTi... made sounds when i tapped on the inline MIDI edit keyboard. Made no sounds when I hit play... I checked the velocity, to see if there were stay CCs blocking the way, then I realized I'm back to wasting time with this stupid product instead of being productive. Not just uninstalling, clean installing windows to get rid of any left over stuff. Sorry guys, months later and still nothing usable. Just please don't F-up Vegas, it's the only good thing left.

Patient-X wrote on 10/30/2019, 8:11 PM

I have stayed with acid pro 7 since its release, i tried to update to acid pro 8 and it crashed constantly under my windows 10. The basic use on acid 7 is enough for me to create music and its quite stable. 👍

sheppo wrote on 10/31/2019, 10:03 AM

> When you guys first mentioned the VST 32 bit bridge I scratched my head wondering why you'd waste your time.  64 bit home PCs have been commonplace for about 20 years now. 

Remember, 64bit XP launched in 2005, the first edition of Acid Pro was 2009. It was 13 years after the first proper home OS supported 64bit that Magix took the correct decision to support the architecture. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but would it have been right for them to ignore 32bit at that point and focus 100% on 64bit with the initial release of 8? who knows.

when 64bit Acid 8 launched there were a lot of people frustrated with the fact that their legacy projects no longer worked in the 64bit version. In worst case scenarios the projects also wouldn't load in the 32bit version either, due to the way memory usage had changed in the product and operating systems in the last 9 years since 7. So those users affected were to some degree stuck, not helped by the fact they didn't have 64bit versions of their VSTs installed. Some people ventured down the jbridge route themselves and had reported good results.

I don't think the problems some people see necessarily lie with the vst bridge, rather some plugins are just old and need updating or are no longer supported, but ultimately you are right; it does make more sense to use the correctly architected version of any plugin, if you have it available. And at this point in time if the VST is still supported there will be an x64 version available.

> Any PROfessionals in the Music or Video Industries are not relying on 32-Bit plugins that are 15-20 years old

My take on this is that actually within Acid there's valid reason for using old plugins in archived projects.. I'm sure we all have legacy projects using plugins where the vendor is no longer in business, or there simply isn't a 64bit version available. Within other DAWs, when finishing a project i will bounce down a track with plugins to rendered audio, negating the need for those projects to use plugins at a later date. That functionality does not work elegantly in Acid, actually has been somewhat broken in some releases (can't remember if it's beta releases as I've tested so many), so it's just simpler to not do it and keep the plugins as a requirement.

> not by wasting developer man hours on a VST Bridge

the VST bridge is provided by a third party, so I'm not sure it's taking up too much time. Generally the VST engine has seen development work for other reasons, I believe.

That said, in my opinion I think the default response to any support requests for 32bit plugins at this point should be to try the up-to-date 64bit version.

> Just please get Acid 9 down perfect before you decide to release ACID 10 upgrades for (cur-ching) $$.

on that, if a 10 does come out, I'd always recommend people try the trial version first. Same with any software, Magix or otherwise.

But yes, agree with you there, I hope they get the currently supported versions in a good state before looking towards what comes after 9/Next.

I'm actually incredibly happy that Magix devs have seen fit to start rolling bug fixes in 9 across to 8, and AMS. This is great news going forward because it implies there's a single underlying codebase for the apps to tackle architectural code, e.g. the audio engine, plugins, etc. meaning it should leave developers free to work on features for newer versions, whilst keeping the functional code consistent across all versions; if a version 10 does come out, any bug fixes worked on for that should easily be back ported to all other versions as well. (just my finger-in-the-air guess at how it might work going forward). This is _huge_, and a fundamental change to how Sony and Magix supported Acid in the past. It also means they're not trying to independantly support multiple codebases in tandem, context switching between those codebases, or simply dropping the last version off support.

Sean-Weyers wrote on 11/30/2019, 2:03 AM

@Christopher-Frank I very much agree that I feel like I've been a victim of fraud. MAGIX never delivered a working product in Acid 8, then moved on to Acid 9. Seriously, that's as much garbage as this program is. (I was a dedicated ACID user back in the day- ReWire with Cubase was incredible then.) I really feel like looking into a class action lawsuit- I'm wondering if anyone else is with me. I want my money back.

CidBil wrote on 11/30/2019, 5:25 AM

@Christopher-Frank I very much agree that I feel like I've been a victim of fraud. MAGIX never delivered a working product in Acid 8, then moved on to Acid 9. Seriously, that's as much garbage as this program is. (I was a dedicated ACID user back in the day- ReWire with Cubase was incredible then.) I really feel like looking into a class action lawsuit- I'm wondering if anyone else is with me. I want my money back.

Caveat Emptor

Trensharo wrote on 11/30/2019, 9:54 AM

@Christopher-Frank I very much agree that I feel like I've been a victim of fraud. MAGIX never delivered a working product in Acid 8, then moved on to Acid 9. Seriously, that's as much garbage as this program is. (I was a dedicated ACID user back in the day- ReWire with Cubase was incredible then.) I really feel like looking into a class action lawsuit- I'm wondering if anyone else is with me. I want my money back.

The only reason to get ACID Pro, at all, is if you're going to use it as your main DAW or simply prefer it (because your needs are fairly simple). It can be a decent sketching tool, though, which is basically how I use it (easy project setup, just start dragging and trying things).

Otherwise, you can pretty much get Samplitude Pro X4 Suite at the same price as a new user of ACID Pro 9 (not an upgrader), and it handles looping and arranging just as well, while being better at almost everything else compared to ACID Pro - and including a content package superior to that of ACID Pro Next Suite (which costs more than Cubase Pro).

Using ACID as your main DAW is totally possible, if you're willing to invest in "bolting on" the utility plugins (Apreggiator, Sequencers, Audio Editor, etc.), Synths, Samplers, and Effects that it lacks in comparison to competitors like e.g. FL Studio. Buying ACID Pro Next Suite is not an economically smart, considering the hilarious price and vendor-locked nature of the plugins.

Otherwise, DAWs like Cubase, Pro Tools, Studio One, Samplitude, etc. all handle Looping and/or arrangement fine enough - some better, as ACID is naturally missing support for things like REX files, has little to not audio functionality (Audio Quantize, Pitch Correction, Wave or Spectral Editing, etc.).

ReWire is, now, more important for using Synths or Effects/Racks from DAWs like Reason and Ableton. ACID Pro is more important as a ReWire HOST than it is as a SLAVE, as you can ReWire a DAW like Reason Intro or Ableton Live Lite into ACID Pro to sidestep some of its limitations and gain access to some good plutins/instruments/synths on the cheap.

Lastly, and more importantly, ACID Pro 8 is being patched. There is a stickied topic on the forum that you seem to love ignoring, and you don't seem to have even bothered to test the latest Beta Builds. MAGIX is going out of their way to accommodate users like you. The least you could do, is at least test the build to see if it fixes your problems before complaining yet again.

If you care that much about the small amount of cash it took to buy ACID Pro 8, chances are you can't even afford to initiate a CALS, and no one else is going to cry as much about this. The people who cared that much moved on during the Sony days, when they wouldn't have even bothered to issue a patch this long after a new version has launched. These people, predominantly, never made it over to ACID Pro 8.

andrew-wilson wrote on 1/4/2020, 7:55 AM

Amazing that no-one from Magix wants to comment on a thread like this. The customer service is just so insanely bad. What a truly terrible, unprofessional company Magix are, personally I would be ashamed to work for them.

Trensharo wrote on 1/5/2020, 4:54 PM

Amazing that no-one from Magix wants to comment on a thread like this. The customer service is just so insanely bad. What a truly terrible, unprofessional company Magix are, personally I would be ashamed to work for them.

They don't need to. They created a thread with beta builds and issued patches. Responding here would do nothing but perpetuate cry threads from people who see this and think that if they complain they will get attention.

Good move on them.

I think people's expectations of what ACID Pro 8/9 would be, simply because MAGIX issued upgrades, was way out of line.