What am I missing out on by sticking to V17

DesertSweeper wrote on 11/1/2021, 2:07 AM

I bought Video Pro X on a whim in late 2017 and instantly hated it, finding it difficult to grasp. I had moved from CorelVideo"pro" that is a breeze to use, being supremely intuitive for idiots like me. But it was horrendously unstable and produced shockingly poor renders of my GoPro and Canon EOS 80D footage. So I read about Pro X and it seemed to be a decent fit at a good price, but of course neglected to install a trial that would have told me it was no CorelVideo in the ease-of-use dept. That's my bad. And I even paid for an upgrade in early 2019 that puts me on Video Pro X V17, so I am guessing two releases back. Well here I am 4 years later and with spare time on my hands - giving it another bash. CorelVideo is still a great product but even more unstable (in my test of their latest version). My expectations performance-wise are not the problem. My computer seems fast enough with the older version and I am happy to leave it rendering while I go for a walk. So I don't need the new acceleration features. What I am curious to know is what, if any, usability improvements have been made in the subsequent two versions that would justify spending the money to upgrade. Things that make it intuitively easier to use would be of interest. Fancy new effects are of little interest to me as I would be limited to mixing a few tracks of video and audio - lots of trimming, time-changes, fades etc - the basics of video-editing. I am no fancy-editor and do not seek to become one. I just want an easy-to-use reliable editor that does not crash every 5 minutes and produces nice clean output of mostly action footage - hobby level. Do I labour on with what I have, or will my life improve by paying for the latest version?

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CubeAce wrote on 12/18/2021, 7:59 AM

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

Here is the MediaInfo file of a project encoded as described above from MEP.

General
Complete name                            : H:\Dalek Sratch Build.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/avc1)
File size                                : 4.13 GiB
Duration                                 : 7 min 23 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 80.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-29 09:28:21
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-29 09:28:21

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 7 min 23 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 79.9 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 120 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.193
Stream size                              : 4.12 GiB (100%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-29 09:28:21
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-29 09:28:21
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 7 min 23 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 198 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 10.5 MiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-29 09:28:21
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-29 09:28:21

Nowhere near what you predicted but large enough.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 12/18/2021, 10:53 AM

@DesertSweeper, @Scenestealer

. . . . "it's pretty clear from that: 2560x1440 is QHD" ......yeah - according to someone! . . . . Quad anything is a rort . . . .

Quad HD is exactly what is says 4x HD what is not specified is 4 x what - to solve the problem you need a Quadratic Equation:

( HDw X 2) x (HDh x2) = QuadHD

Plugging in the numbers for HDw = 1280 and HDh = 720 you get

(1280 x 2) x (720 x2) = QuadHD

Multiplying out the contents of the () you get

2560 x 1440 = Quad HD

Quod erat demonstrandum

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 12/18/2021, 11:29 AM

@johnebaker

Hi John

Est mihi omnia Graeca

Ray.

DesertSweeper wrote on 12/18/2021, 11:33 AM

Ahhh good old Latin. I was a scholar (forced) back in the 70's!

CubeAce wrote on 12/18/2021, 11:57 AM

@DesertSweeper @johnebaker

I never understood why in the 70s school mottoes were always in Latin. Even when it was not on the curriculum.

After all, what did the Romans ever do for us?😏

(All Monty Python answers accepted) 🤓

Ray.

Scenestealer wrote on 12/18/2021, 4:12 PM

@johnebaker

Uhhh....! Sorry my maths is worse than my monitor speak, and my Latin is worse that both.

My point is - why express something in terms of a specification of a virtually redundant format? HD will always be 1920 x 1080 to me (and to most people these days). I know - I will call 1280 x 720 half HD from now on 😖.

@CubeAce

I don't "speaka da Greek" neither.

I really can not explain how that file is encoding at such a low rate and what part of the H.264 AVC compression it is retaining. I have to do some experiments.

Was it all DJI clips or were there a lot of jpegs and graphics in there?

After all, what did the Romans ever do for us?😏

Gave us the word QUAD most likely!

Good section from the movie Ray. BTW - What ever happened to the Judean Peoples Front anyway?

Peter

CubeAce wrote on 12/18/2021, 5:45 PM

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

All the movie clips were 4K 50fps along with graphics within the images that some of them were turned into video files for smoother playback where the graphics were produced by Boris Continuum Title Effects due to the processor load running so many at a time. The export would have taken weeks. There is a lot of black in that video though so may account for the file size.

Here is another MediaInfo file from my Santa Fun Run Ghost video for comparison.

General
Complete name                            : I:\Santa Fun Run 2021 Ghost.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/avc1)
File size                                : 1.76 GiB
Duration                                 : 3 min 9 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 79.9 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-10-31 00:38:23
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-10-31 00:38:23

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : N=1
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 3 min 9 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 79.7 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 120 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.192
Stream size                              : 1.76 GiB (100%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-10-31 00:38:23
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-10-31 00:38:23
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 3 min 9 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 4.41 MiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-10-31 00:38:23
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-10-31 00:38:23

BTW - What ever happened to the Judean Peoples Front anyway?

Peter

I think it was absorbed by the Peoples Front of Judea 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ray.

Scenestealer wrote on 12/19/2021, 3:35 AM

@CubeAce

I think it was absorbed by the Peoples Front of Judea 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Gold!!!!

Peter

johnebaker wrote on 12/19/2021, 3:44 AM

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter

On a serious note:

. . . . why express something in terms of a specification of a virtually redundant format . . . .

Marketing speak to make the formats sound more impressive?

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 12/19/2021, 3:55 AM

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

I've been looking closely at the file sizes of the exports compared to the amount of data in the original files and the minimum and maximum MB/s of the original files and found them to be a close match overall. I think maybe as all frames are I frames it must be close to a straight copy of the I and P frame information plus or minus any pixel variation due to a possible added colour correction or effect.

Ray.

CubeAce wrote on 12/19/2021, 3:58 AM

@johnebaker @Scenestealer @DesertSweeper

Marketing speak to make the formats sound more impressive?

Or an attempt to try to get across the image quality difference to a poorly educated public?

Ray.

DesertSweeper wrote on 12/19/2021, 5:22 AM

Cogito ergo sum. I grew up in the colonies and apparently we did not get the memo from HQ, so Latin WAS firmly on the curriculum, and compulsory. And all your talk of file-structures truly is Greek to me...for now anyway.

So I finally got the new 12th Gen Intel working...only to discover I had somehow ordered the KF version which is sans iGPU. Unbelievably frustrating. Back to waiting on Amazon.

As an aside if anyone is interested in going down the 12th-gen route - avoid trying to get a non LGA1700 certified cooler working. It is an absolute nightmare, even with the ASUS MoBo that is supposed to make it easier. There are conversion brackets available for most decent after-market coolers and mine is on the way (Noctua). Or buy the new Noctua NH-U12A which is made for 12th-gen. And if you get tempted to use the Thermaltake UX200 with the LGA1700 conversion brackets AND an ASUS TUF Z690 Minboard - don't. Nasty for many reasons.

Also as an aside - this 16-thread (plus 4) CPU is not much better than the ancient 12-thread 6850K for MEP2022. Rendering - yes I see a significant difference. But that template clip - still not a happenin' on the timeline scrub...

DesertSweeper wrote on 12/31/2021, 5:59 AM

The iGPU i7 finally arrived and I put it together yesterday - initial subjective results are VERY disappointing, It does not seem to use all the cores nor the iGPU very much. It may be that the newer iGPU requires optimisation not present in MEP. Will do more objective testing and report back

johnebaker wrote on 12/31/2021, 7:40 AM

@DesertSweeper

. . . . this 16-thread (plus 4) CPU is not much better than the ancient 12-thread 6850K . . . . initial subjective results are VERY disappointing, It does not seem to use all the cores nor the iGPU very much . . . .

Having 6 - 8 cores (12 - 16 threads) appears to be the sweet spot, the difference between 6 and 8 cores is relatively inexpensive for the percentage increase in usage.

Above 8 cores the 'diminishing returns for your buck' problem kicks in with smaller and smaller gains in performane/core usage for a exponential increase in cost.

The real performance increase comes from having a modern Nvidia gaming GPU eg the RTX 20xx / 30xx series.

it will be interesting to see what the performance of the Intel ARC graphics card(s), due for release early 2022 and based on 6nm technology, will be.

John EB