@browj2 @shgrude @Former user

This discussion, debating the Update v Upgrade model that Magix uses, has been fascinating but I think it is now time to call a halt to it, please! I am not going to lock this thread because I think the reason for it starting, as inviting comments on the new VPX 11, is invaluable. However, no more comments on the Update/Upgrade debate, please!

I intend to formally ask Magix about whether users updating VPX 10 to VPX 11 as part of their 12 months Update Service should have received the two NB apps which do appear, according to their own website, as "included" in the package. Certainly, I updated to 11 and did not receive either app.

I will report back on what I learn.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

I took the update yesterday, installed without a problem, have all my presets too. No other content/plugins were installed.

@browj2 @shgrude @Former user, indeed...

... To all who posted to this thread, with reference to the questions about NB Titler Pro and Elements add-ons and whether they should be part of the "automatic" update to the new VPX 11:

I've just received this direct from Magix

Just briefly checked with my colleagues from German video support, and they confirmed that those two plug-ins are also just available to people that perform a paid-for purchase at this point.

So, that is clearly the definitive position. I have deliberately bolded the key words from what was a rather longer reply. The writer seemed a little unsure of why the above is the current situation and undertook to attempt to discover why. There may be more to report later?

Jeff

I did a short test, rendered a project to DVD. Approx 1:15:00 show, Panasonic .mts files, 4 cameras on the timeline, with transitions and movement, zoom in/out, move R to L, L to R, took about 40 minutes to render. Wish I could get my CPU above 29%. Hardware Acc worked also.

Hi @gmlotkow

With nearly 0.5x realtime rendering speed I wouldn't be complaining...... but CPU usage usually drops when a lot more is being done on the GPU.

Peter

Not complaining a bit, but could you imagine if it used more of the CPU. Probably has something to do with the heat generated.

Probably has something to do with the heat generated.

Maybe, as the Quicksync hardware layer is on the CPU die, although I see you have watercooling so heat shouldn't be a problem, plus you should see the CPU usage and frequency (speed) start off high and reduce if the processor is throttling back.

Been using the program for the last few days and I have been impressed with the new engine very much. I had no problems with the upgrading as I had a few times before. The only problems I had and reported it, was that program would not turn off my computer when the exported mp4 movie was finished, and showed no errors. I'll have to try with a smaller version later this week, and the program froze when I opened the mixer and would change to 5.1 audio or turn it off. I haven't had any other problems (bugs) on older versions that were bugging me that I had to work around that I can remember or wasn't fixed? I like the program so far except for the two things and happy I upgraded.

Questions:

1. Has MAGIX published a better "Update" post for this version release? Web page is too vague on too many things... Like Decode Acceleration: does that actually use NVDEC... and for what CODECs? Just HEVC, or also H.264?

They really need to put a little more effort into informing users on their website.

• Why was DNxHD removed from the list of supported CODECs?
• Does the NLE still rely on QuickTime for opening anything in an MOV container?

2. Are the Plug-Ins (Titler Pro 6, Essentials 3 Ultimate) vendor-locked to Video Pro X, or do they work in other NLEs on the system that support OpenFX (i.e. VEGAS Pro)?

3. Have the issues (bugs?) going from Samplitude Pro back to Video Pro X been fixed in this version? File -> Export -> Export to Magix Video Pro X... in Samplitude Pro X4 [Suite]. Particularly, when transferring Audio Objects Individually (not Mixdowns/Stems) - in both directions.

4. Can you nest Bins in this version, yet. In 16, Bins can only be one level deep, so you couldn't have an Audio Bin with Music and SFX Bins nested within it (for example).

Might download a trial to check on these things, when I can spare the time... but am wondering if anyone who has purchased (or updated) can inform on these points. Particularly since the upgrade cost for both NLEs is identical (for me).

I did a short test, rendered a project to DVD. Approx 1:15:00 show, Panasonic .mts files, 4 cameras on the timeline, with transitions and movement, zoom in/out, move R to L, L to R, took about 40 minutes to render. Wish I could get my CPU above 29%. Hardware Acc worked also.

If your GPU is weak, and you're using it for effects, then you might bottleneck the CPU because the application has to wait for the slow GPU to do its work before the CPU and Encoder can do their work.

The frames need to be rendered before they can be encoded and compressed...

If your GPU is slow at rendering the effects, then it will slow down the entire process - it becomes a bottleneck. Check with GPU Rendering Enabled and Disabled. Then, compare the overall render speeds and CPU usage.

Use the same project for the comparison, and otherwise equivalent settings ;-)

i7-8700k with only an Intel iGPU is completely out-of-balance. You really need a dGPU in that machine, if you don't have one.

The reason why I'm making this assumption, is because with Nvidia GPUs, both GPUs usually show up in Task Manager. It may be different for AMD - I'm not sure. So my assumption may very well be incorrect...

This is what I see on my machine:

Intel iGPU is great for getting the QSV Encode/Decode Acceleration. However, they are slower than a GTX1030 for Effects Rendering, and summarily blown away by anything that is a GTX1050 or better (or GTX960 or better).

A CPU that strong is going to be bottlenecked by that GPU if you use it for heavy effects rendering in Video Editing Software.

CPU and GPU have to be in balanced, for optimal performance across both of them. It needs to be paired with a better, dedicated, GPU.

Opposite situation can happen if you have a very strong GPU (like a GTX1080Ti) paired with a slow CPU (like an old Dual Core i3). The CPU will show high usage, but the GPU will have very low usage because it's spending a lot of cycles waiting on the CPU; which cannot keep up with its high performance levels.

^- Extreme example to illustrate the point.

CPU, GPU, Memory, and I/O are like a Relay Team. If one of them is too slow, they hold back all the rest and the team still won't win races, despite having amazing sprinters in those other slots :-P

@Former user

It may be different for AMD

It isn't! See my screenshot (not currently carrying out anything in VPX but rather converting an NTSC video to PAL.)

Jeff

@browj2 @shgrude @Former user ...

... any other user who's been following this thread wrt Updates v Upgrades:

I've just received this additional information from Magix about the availability of the two NB extras, Titler and Elements, especially for those users who have claimed the free Update, as against those who have purchased the Upgrade to VPX 11.

I got some additional information from product management as to whether there's any distinction between these two categories of plug-ins. They confirmed that both categories are not available to free updaters, but the distinction is of a technical and logistical nature: NewBlue Titler Pro 6
and NewBlue Elements 3 Ultimate are what we consider to be hard-bundled add-ons. They are available to anyone purchasing version 11 as an update or completely new/full-price purchase now. New Blue Filters 5 Refocus, New Blue Stylizers 5 Imagine and Hit Film Cinema Style Pack are soft-bundled add-ons, which are strictly available in the context of the specific offer we're running right now. (So, this one will be over at one point in time, and these three plug-ins will no longer be available, while the former two will always be part of VPX11, if purchased sometime during the course of the next 12 months.)

I think this makes the whole situation very much clearer. Hopefully this will be useful information for anyone "confused" about these two specific NB apps.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

@emmrecs

About the 2 NB apps, yes, this is clear. What is not clear is the web site. Magix should simply add in an asterisk to indicate that these 2 apps are not included in an ongoing update service, or something like that.

New marketing error: On the comparison page, Magix still has "MIDI support" checked off under Audio Editing. We when through this a while back, and it was confirmed that VPX does not have MIDI support. Did something change? Or should Magix remove this.

@Former user

Your point #3: Samplitude to VPX - the file does not open in VPX, thus bug #10 is still on the list.

Your point #4: Double-nesting cannot be done with an audio file being nested into another movie that will be nested. I don't understand why you would want to nest an audio object into another movie that would be, itself, nested. Would it not be better to do the audio with the movie?

I was able to double nest image/video objects, but not always. I haven't figured out why it works sometimes and not others. I also ran into a problem with the display. I had to switch to compatibility mode sometimes and not other times. Very strange.

When it doesn't work, the following message pops up:

John CB

Usefulness of New Effects:

Interestingly, a moderator on the French forum mentioned that he had NB Titler Pro 6 with Vegas, and removed it because it often caused crashes and was a memory hog. Comments from anyone who has it and used it with VPX?

What about the other four new effects, comments? Are they useful? Potentially useful? Redundant with other methods/plugins?

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . a moderator on the French forum mentioned that he had NB Titler Pro 6 with Vegas, and removed it because it often caused crashes and was a memory hog. Comments from anyone who has it and used it with VPX . . .

Talk about coincidences - I have just been testing Titler Pro in MEP and yes it is a memory hog and it did crash MEP several times. I have not updated to VPX 11 yet so cannot test.

However whether it would be safe to extrapolate this to VPX11, it has a new engine, is something I would not definitely say without testing.

HTH

John EB

@browj2 @shgrude @Former user ...

... any other user who's been following this thread wrt Updates v Upgrades:

I've just received this additional information from Magix about the availability of the two NB extras, Titler and Elements, especially for those users who have claimed the free Update, as against those who have purchased the Upgrade to VPX 11.

I got some additional information from product management as to whether there's any distinction between these two categories of plug-ins. They confirmed that both categories are not available to free updaters, but the distinction is of a technical and logistical nature: NewBlue Titler Pro 6
and NewBlue Elements 3 Ultimate are what we consider to be hard-bundled add-ons. They are available to anyone purchasing version 11 as an update or completely new/full-price purchase now. New Blue Filters 5 Refocus, New Blue Stylizers 5 Imagine and Hit Film Cinema Style Pack are soft-bundled add-ons, which are strictly available in the context of the specific offer we're running right now. (So, this one will be over at one point in time, and these three plug-ins will no longer be available, while the former two will always be part of VPX11, if purchased sometime during the course of the next 12 months.)

I think this makes the whole situation very much clearer. Hopefully this will be useful information for anyone "confused" about these two specific NB apps.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

Indeed. That is basically what I stated in my posts upthread :-)

But, it's good to get the information directly from MAGIX, as they are an inherently more reliable source.

Your point #4: Double-nesting cannot be done with an audio file being nested into another movie that will be nested. I don't understand why you would want to nest an audio object into another movie that would be, itself, nested. Would it not be better to do the audio with the movie?

I was able to double nest image/video objects, but not always. I haven't figured out why it works sometimes and not others. I also ran into a problem with the display. I had to switch to compatibility mode sometimes and not other times. Very strange.

When it doesn't work, the following message pops up:

John CB

 

For Point 4, I'm talking about Bin Nesting... Bins are the virtual folders in the project manager. They're used to organize footage and project assets. For example, here "VFX" is nested under "Footage" and "SFX/Music/Stems" are nested under "Audio."

In VPX 16, you could only have top-level bins (you cannot put bins within bins). I was wondering if that was still the case. That way, you can keep all associated bins within a top level bin.

Unfortunate about the Samplitude issue...

What about the other four new effects, comments? Are they useful? Potentially useful? Redundant with other methods/plugins?

John CB

Honestly, not sure I'd personally install any of those upgrade bonus effects...

I think I would install Titler Pro 6, because having a decent Titling app is invaluable, IMO. Then, I'd likely skip out on the rest - registering the serial numbers, just in case.

They look a bit like those effects you get with low end consumer NLEs. However, the type of work I do is beyond social media "hit pieces." I reckon they will suit a lot of others just fine. I prefer to install as few plug-ins as possible into my software.

Less points of failure :-P

I think they are a lot less redundant in VPX or VEGAS Pro than they are in an NLE like Premiere Pro - for example - which ships with tons of pretty decent stock effects (but not so much of the "eye candy" stuff), and is far more feature-rich.

NBFX's stuff has been known, in the past, to be a source of issues in various NLEs. So, the report doesn't surprise me. However, there are a lot of potential points of failure that can be unrelated to the Titler Pro software itself, in VEGAS Pro.

@johnebaker

However whether it would be safe to extrapolate this to VPX11, it has a new engine, is something I would not definitely say without testing.

Bugs can be in the OpenFX Interface (something MAGIX has updated recently, so the possibility of regressions being there is quite real). It can also be down to specific hardware configurations, drivers, etc.

Hi All

Just a bit of clarification from a post in the German Forum about activating the NB Titler Pro 6 and NB Essentials 3 that you get only when you buy a New Upgrade or New purchase of VPX11:-

Google translate

After the purchase you will receive a mail with a coupon code in the stands:

With your purchase of Video Pro X, you will receive a coupon code for the NewBlue Titler Pro 6 in the In-App Store.
To activate your NewBlue Titler Pro 6:
Please enable your NewBlue Titler Pro 6 directly from the Video Pro X interface ("Help" menu then "Unlock Content Package (s)").
Here you enter your code and the program will be unlocked.
If necessary, the program must be updated beforehand. Then you will find the Effects tab, in the category additional effects, your NewBlue Titler Pro 6 unlocked for download.

Then you go under additional effects and you will NewBlue Titler Pro 6 as displayed. Click on it and in the window right you can start the download. After restarting VPX, you will find NewBlue Titler Pro 6 below the list of effects.

HTH

Peter

@Former user

Bins, like Layers, make my eyes glaze over. In VPX, the term "bin" is not used.

VPX and MEP use the Media Pool, Import screen with either the standard Folder view, or the tree view. In the Folder view, shown below, you can create links to folder, but you can't nest; it's a single column. So when I'm doing a project, I create links to folders for Videos and Photos (I keep them separate). Any subfolders are shown at the right along with the contents of the folder and the red light turned on if the object is used in the project.

In VPX only, there is a Project Temp Folder. This is similar to a "bin" in other programs. In this, each Movie is shown with the Movie name. Below, you will see that I have 2 Movies. I also added subfolders for Video, Audio, and Photos to replicate somewhat, your bins. Any objects added to the Project are also added to the Project Temp Folder into either the upper level or one of the folders, whichever is open, instead of the upper level. There are only 2 levels, the upper level, and folders. Sub-folders are not allowed. I had this on my wish-list; I would like one more level.

Nesting is done by putting a movie from the Project Temp Folder onto the timeline of the current movie.

Objects can be added to the Project Temp Folder from the Media Pool without being put on the timeline, or from Windows Explorer by drag and drop, again, without going onto the timeline. In the Project Temp Folder, objects that are on the timeline have the red indicator light turned on.

In the image below, I have the Project Temp Folder in Detail mode. Here, I can change the name of the object and add in a description if I want. Example, I use the stock arrow for presentation. It comes onto the timeline full size; I change the size (zoom out to 25) and put it in the Project Temp Folder. The name of the object is "LOOP POS." I change it to "Arrow 25" and then import it from there every time that I need it.

Objects on the timeline, like a video clip with effects on it, can be inserted into the Project Temp Folder and they will be given a name with _001, _002... appended. These can be renamed and reused.

The project folder can be saved separately and imported into another project.

So, you can build a Project by stocking it with various video, image and audio objects to be used later.

I'm curious to know how many VPX users here use the Project Temp Folder like I do. I have added to the wish-list the capability of exporting the Project Temp Folder to a csv file.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . I'm curious to know how many VPX users here use the Project Temp Folder like I do . . . . .

Not me.

John EB

@browj2

. . . . I'm curious to know how many VPX users here use the Project Temp Folder like I do . . . . .

Me neither.

Peter